(Topic ID: 278928)

I got burned JJP GnR CE deposit


By mslow

3 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 648 posts
  • 215 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by paynemic
  • Topic is favorited by 28 Pinsiders

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There are 648 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 13.
#201 3 months ago

The signature cards seem like one of the harder things to increase. It was probably hard enough to get the initial 500.

60
#202 3 months ago
Quoted from Bud:

This discussion shows exactly what this GNR CE is.... it really is limited and desirable and for once in pinball, it really is a collector pin and more people want it than there are CEs available. This is by definition is collector edition, and sold out as designed and intended. After all, that’s the point of a true collectible.

This whole post gets it.

Not to rub it in but I'm pretty sure reading pinside the weekend before launch, we were going to be lucky to move 50 of these things.

I'm really sorry this happened. I think we can all agree that we didn't expect distributors to come at us with ALMOST DOUBLE the requests in total compared to the build amount. Should we have had it sorted beforehand? Probably. But we didn't, and I bet you didn't either, expect this overwhelming and frankly humbling demand. There was no history to indicate this.

So when the dust settled and we were in this situation, what could we do other than to work on reducing asks?

I thank all of you for your interest and we'll have it worked out better next time. I really didn't expect them to go so fast either, or even to be all gone on day 1.

I hope those that get shut out still consider an le because I think it's still a great game and has all the gameplay features of the ce.

Oh, and believe me or not, but website orders are a drop in the bucket compared to the total demand there was.

14
#203 3 months ago

Honest question, but do you guys really prefer the CE artwork over the LE or are you interested in the CE primarily for the other additions (ball lock, soundbar, lighting, etc.). I'm a pretty big GNR fan and I vastly prefer the LE artwork/color scheme. Having all of those vintage concert posters represented and unique artwork on all side is awesome! The CE artwork is alright but I think the in motion pinball is kind of cheesy, and I'm not sure if I like the 7 member AFD cross. I feel like it should be the original 5 member cross to stay true to the album/band from that era. It might be a blessing in disguise if you have to "settle" for an LE.

#204 3 months ago
Quoted from MikeS:

Honest question, but do you guys really prefer the CE artwork over the LE or are you interested in the CE primarily for the other additions (ball lock, soundbar, lighting, etc.). I'm a pretty big GNR fan and I vastly prefer the LE artwork/color scheme. Having all of those vintage concert posters represented and unique artwork on all side is awesome! The CE artwork is alright but I think the in motion pinball is kind of cheesy, and I'm not sure if I like the 7 member AFD cross. I feel like it should be the original 5 member cross to stay true to the album/band from that era. It might be a blessing in disguise if you have to "settle" for an LE.

That what exactly what i thought !

#205 3 months ago
Quoted from jeffro01:

It really wouldn't surprise me if JJP increased the CE count by another couple of hundred given the demand. This isn't POTC, they are still very much in the "can get parts" mode and leaving millions on the table doesn't seem very smart business wise. I don't think increasing CE count from 500 to say 750 is going to hurt anything or anyone... Thoughts?
Jeff

It will only increase the damage their reputation damage are taking over the mess. They lose all credibility for future 'limited releases' if they do that.

Here's a solution: Create an Encore edition and only offer it to the buyers who lost their spot. Base it and price it on the LE, but with some different trim colors or something. That way they get an 'exclusive' machine without diluting the CE. Might end up like Lucy's - unintended rarity adds value in the future.

#206 3 months ago

What a mess.
Looking forward to this eve to see if this one has the go to match the show.

12
#207 3 months ago
Quoted from MikeS:

Honest question, but do you guys really prefer the CE artwork over the LE or are you interested in the CE primarily for the other additions (ball lock, soundbar, lighting, etc.). I'm a pretty big GNR fan and I vastly prefer the LE artwork/color scheme. Having all of those vintage concert posters represented and unique artwork on all side is awesome! The CE artwork is alright but I think the in motion pinball is kind of cheesy, and I'm not sure if I like the 7 member AFD cross. I feel like it should be the original 5 member cross to stay true to the album/band from that era. It might be a blessing in disguise if you have to "settle" for an LE.

To me the LE artwork is possibly the best artwork on any pin I have ever seen. Way better then the CE version.

#208 3 months ago
Quoted from DJNOEL30:

Didn’t Stern allow direct purchases of BM66 SLE?

Since the games have custom callouts based on the owners names, I have to assume that is correct?

#209 3 months ago
Quoted from MikeS:

Honest question, but do you guys really prefer the CE artwork over the LE

Honest answer:

"Naw we actually all think the CE art sucks and you are sucker for buying once since the LE art is so much more awesome!"

Why do people ask questions like this?

#210 3 months ago

Order gone.
Oh well just stuff.
What a shit show in the ordering process...very unprofessional from JJP imo.

-14
#211 3 months ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

This whole post gets it.
Not to rub it in but I'm pretty sure reading pinside the weekend before launch, we were going to be lucky to move 50 of these things.
I'm really sorry this happened. I think we can all agree that we didn't expect distributors to come at us with ALMOST DOUBLE the requests in total compared to the build amount. Should we have had it sorted beforehand? Probably. But we didn't, and I bet you didn't either, expect this overwhelming and frankly humbling demand. There was no history to indicate this.
So when the dust settled and we were in this situation, what could we do other than to work on reducing asks?
I thank all of you for your interest and we'll have it worked out better next time. I really didn't expect them to go so fast either, or even to be all gone on day 1.
I hope those that get shut out still consider an le because I think it's still a great game and has all the gameplay features of the ce.
Oh, and believe me or not, but website orders are a drop in the bucket compared to the total demand there was.

Sorry, but this is a laughable response. So now your saying its your distributors fault for coming at u with too many requests? U mean u didn't know this before launch? God forbid JJP set allocation prior to launch so everyone is on the same page....Come on man! You completely screwed your distributors and in return pissed off a loyal customer base.

#212 3 months ago

My distributor in Canada still hasn’t confirmed whether I will receive CE and it is Wednesday. I am wondering if this is a bad thing or good thing?

33
#213 3 months ago

I feel like I assigned no fault to anyone but us.

As I originally said, I don't think anyone expected that level of demand. So that would mostly fall on us.

14
#214 3 months ago

this thread is comical. Spooky sells out in 2 hours and everyone cheers. JJP sells out in a day and everyone blasts JJP. There is not one person planet earth who thought 500 CEs would be gone in a matter of hours. Buy a LE and shut up.

#215 3 months ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

I feel like I assigned no fault to anyone but us.
As I originally said, I don't think anyone expected that level of demand. So that would mostly fall on us.

Not JJP fault except for making a amazing pinball machine.

#216 3 months ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

So, the folks who ordered more than one will have those orders canceled?
Have everyone pay the 12.5K in full, no cancellations, and watch “buyers” drop like flies.

bingo

#217 3 months ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

So when the dust settled and we were in this situation, what could we do other than to work on reducing asks?

Keith, first off, you and JJP's entire team just created one of the most amazing pins of all time. Congratulations as it's well deserved.

With that said, and excuse me for being frank here, while everyone appreciates your reply, including myself, I don't think damage control should be your job, nor is it the right time as a lot of us are very upset with the situation.

If I'm being honest, your comment above comes off as "shrugging your shoulders." So when you say JJP will do better next time, there really isn't a next time for GNR CEs.

#218 3 months ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

This whole post gets it.
Oh, and believe me or not, but website orders are a drop in the bucket compared to the total demand there was.

Thanks for weighing in Keith, and congrats on the launch, the game looks remarkable. I think what's really frustrating a few of us who have been or may be left out is that we had the opportunity to order direct, but we went with those who have helped us in the past. And for that loyalty we got burned. The lesson, at least for me, is to just buy direct and bypass your sales network.

26
#219 3 months ago

Any representative from a pinball company is absolutely insane to post here, answer questions, make explanations...

No good can come from it and all you'll get is abuse.

#220 3 months ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

This whole post gets it.
Not to rub it in but I'm pretty sure reading pinside the weekend before launch, we were going to be lucky to move 50 of these things.
I'm really sorry this happened. I think we can all agree that we didn't expect distributors to come at us with ALMOST DOUBLE the requests in total compared to the build amount. Should we have had it sorted beforehand? Probably. But we didn't, and I bet you didn't either, expect this overwhelming and frankly humbling demand. There was no history to indicate this.
So when the dust settled and we were in this situation, what could we do other than to work on reducing asks?
I thank all of you for your interest and we'll have it worked out better next time. I really didn't expect them to go so fast either, or even to be all gone on day 1.
I hope those that get shut out still consider an le because I think it's still a great game and has all the gameplay features of the ce.
Oh, and believe me or not, but website orders are a drop in the bucket compared to the total demand there was.

Great, honest answer. Appreciate you for making the effort here on Pinside when the risks of even commenting far outweigh the benefits.

#221 3 months ago

Make sure as much as possible people aren’t getting multiples, and ask for payment in full by end of week on the CEs. As others have said, that should free stuff up.

Hindsight is 20/20, but JJP competing with their own dealers on sales is a recipe for disaster. Maybe disallow ordering direct for a title for the first week of launch?

#222 3 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Sorry, but this is a laughable response. So now your saying its your distributors fault for coming at u with too many requests? U mean u didn't know this before launch? God forbid JJP set allocation prior to launch so everyone is on the same page....Come on man! You completely screwed your distributors and in return pissed off a loyal customer base.

People have short memories. When they produce another awesome machine with great marketing(which it was) people will buy from them.

#223 3 months ago
Quoted from MikeS:

Honest question, but do you guys really prefer the CE artwork over the LE or are you interested in the CE primarily for the other additions (ball lock, soundbar, lighting, etc.). I'm a pretty big GNR fan and I vastly prefer the LE artwork/color scheme. Having all of those vintage concert posters represented and unique artwork on all side is awesome! The CE artwork is alright but I think the in motion pinball is kind of cheesy, and I'm not sure if I like the 7 member AFD cross. I feel like it should be the original 5 member cross to stay true to the album/band from that era. It might be a blessing in disguise if you have to "settle" for an LE.

I prefer the CE. Asked the wife and she really liked the CE over the LE. Maybe it’s different in person.

#224 3 months ago

.

10
#225 3 months ago

I think jjp should just make 1000 CE's, and then maybe people in this hobby will learn to stop valuing something just because of its scarcity. If 1000 people want to pay the money because they think the package is worth it, then awesome. Assigning value to something because it's limited is dumb.

35
#226 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Any representative from a pinball company is absolutely insane to post here, answer questions, make explanations...

No good can come from it and all you'll get is abuse.

You are, of course, correct, but emotions are high and deserved some acknowledgement.

Believe me, plenty of discussions will be had how to handle this in the future.

#227 3 months ago
Quoted from Palmer:

The guy is being honest. Show a little respect man. Pinsiders getting offended over stupid crap like this is why you don't see a lot of industry people on here. Frankly it sucks because a lot could be gained by having an open dialogue here.

Palmer, tell me how I wasn't respectful? I don't see anything I said being disrespectful one bit. I gave him honest feedback. Are tough conversations and feedback off limits?

Feel free to PM me.

#228 3 months ago
Quoted from jarozi:

Thanks for weighing in Keith, and congrats on the launch, the game looks remarkable. I think what's really frustrating a few of us who have been or may be left out is that we had the opportunity to order direct, but we went with those who have helped us in the past. And for that loyalty we got burned. The lesson, at least for me, is to just buy direct and bypass your sales network.

this is usually the best idea anyway

18
#229 3 months ago

This all could've been avoided had JJP required submissions of worthiness videos.

16
#230 3 months ago

To be fair if anyone had said JJP would sell out of 500 CE's on day 1 at $12500, they would have been laughed off this site forever!

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

#231 3 months ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

Believe me, plenty of discussions will be had how to handle this in the future.

seems easy. Give Distro's real #s to work with and Keep These distro's from selling more than one to anyone as far as CE's go
Or stop the whole CE Collectors Editions and Limited Editions out of the equation if nothing will be limited . imagine you can keep making the best model without the Restraint on Numbers of editions being made . Seems simple . get rid of the Limited or Collectors and have just different Models and anyone can be made without restraint to a #s base allotment

13
#232 3 months ago

JJP, please read this. This game looks amazing. I'm lucky to be in on a CE.

I think there are a few things that could be done here to help fix all of this. I'm no genius, but here is my $.02 if you care.

1 - Ask for full payment for all the CE orders. That will likely free up a bunch of spots. You will get rid of all the tire kickers here.

2 - Make sure if someone's name is on 2 machines, they are only getting 1. They may have put in orders through different distributors because communication was a bit crazy on Monday. It's likely they only really wanted 1 machine anyhow.

3 - If you still have guys that got their CE orders reversed, offer them the LE at a discount or maybe free shipping. Help soften that blow.

If things 1 and 2 are done, the problem may be solved. If you have to go to option 3, so be it. Knock off $250-$500 on an LE or give free shipping. This would really help save the situation.

#233 3 months ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

You are, of course, correct, but emotions are high and deserved some acknowledgement.
Believe me, plenty of discussions will be had how to handle this in the future.

Kieth, thanks for the transparency.

These are the kind of problems every company should have. Put out a product that way exceeds internal demand history and sells out quickly.

#234 3 months ago
Quoted from AFM95:

Palmer, tell me how I wasn't respectful? I don't see anything I said being disrespectful one bit. I gave him honest feedback. Are tough conversations and feedback off limits?
Feel free to PM me.

My bad. I was jumping to conclusions. Redacted!

#235 3 months ago
Quoted from AFM95:

Palmer, tell me how I wasn't respectful? I don't see anything I said being disrespectful one bit. I gave him honest feedback. Are tough conversations and feedback off limits?
Feel free to PM me.

It's disrespectful because he didn't ask for your honest feedback and he doesn't need it. He was offering an explanation. It's not a negotiation. Keefer doesn't have the power to make sure you get the CE you want, so why berate him or give him obnoxious "honest feedback?"

He also didn't ask for the annoying PMs about code, sales, how to get a CE, and other things that are likely flooding his inbox as we speak, either.

Would be great if these guys would start offering us all unasked for "honest feedback" about how we do our jobs.

#236 3 months ago
Quoted from seenev:

I think jjp should just make 1000 CE's, and then maybe people in this hobby will learn to stop valuing something just because of its scarcity. If 1000 people want to pay the money because they think the package is worth it, then awesome. Assigning value to something because it's limited is dumb.

Good luck getting all the band members to sign everything another 500 times. Not gonna happen.

#237 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It's disrespectful because he didn't ask for your honest feedback and he doesn't need it. He was offering an explanation. It's not a negotiation. Keefer doesn't have the power to make sure you get the CE you want, so why berate him or give him obnoxious "honest feedback?"
Would be great if these guys would start offering us all unasked for "honest feedback" about how we do our jobs.

I'm not here to get in a keyboard fight with you Levi, but it's a two-way street here. If Keith wants to give feedback, he should expect feedback in return.

I didn't berate him, I gave him a straight answer. You east coasters should appreciate candidness, right?

#238 3 months ago
Quoted from dugmar:

Good luck getting all the band members to sign everything another 500 times. Not gonna happen.

I dunno. I've heard a lot about how enthusiastic the band is about this game the last few days. Unless all that wasn't true, it seems like that wouldn't be too hard.

12
#239 3 months ago

Wow, looks like a lot of bad will caused because of this.

They have inadvertently taught all their customers that for the next CE release, to be sure to get a CE, they must bypass their distributors and buy direct through JJP.

This undermines a great number of relationships in this industry not to mention potential profit for distributors. And these relationships were the basis of the distributor model.

The end result will be distributors pissed off at their former customers bypassing them and distributors pissed off at JJP for leeching potential profits. This could cause distributors in the future to request fewer CEs as they know many customers will go direct.

Ultimately its an unravelling of trust and all because they want to maximize profits through direct sales. This bypassing has some short term gains (more profit) but longer-term ripple-effect losses as well - perhaps not worth it in the end.

#240 3 months ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

Believe me, plenty of discussions will be had how to handle this in the future.

So, I better put a down payment on my Dead Kennedys CE now?

#241 3 months ago
Quoted from spinal:

Wow, looks like a lot of bad will caused because of this.
They have inadvertently taught all their customers that for the next CE release, to be sure to get a CE, they must bypass their distributors and buy direct through JJP.
This undermines a great number of relationships in this industry not to mention potential profit for distributors. And these relationships were the basis of the distributor model.
The end result will be distributors pissed off at their former customers bypassing them and distributors pissed off at JJP for leeching potential profits. This could cause distributors in the future to request fewer CEs as they know many customers will go direct.
Ultimately its an unravelling of trust and all because they want to maximize profits through direct sales. This bypassing has some short term gains (more profit) but longer-term ripple-effect losses as well - perhaps not worth it in the end.

Or just pre allocate....

#242 3 months ago
Quoted from AFM95:

I'm not here to get in a keyboard fight with you Levi, but it's a two-way street here. If Keith wants to give feedback, he should expect feedback in return.
I didn't berate him, I gave him a straight answer. You east coasters should appreciate candidness, right?

So you are in agreement with me that any company rep posting on pinside is making a mistake?

People always whine about the "lack of communication" from manufacturers. Well, this is why.

-1
#243 3 months ago
Quoted from NightTrain:

JJP, please read this. This game looks amazing. I'm lucky to be in on a CE.
I think there are a few things that could be done here to help fix all of this. I'm no genius, but here is my $.02 if you care.
1 - Ask for full payment for all the CE orders. That will likely free up a bunch of spots. You will get rid of all the tire kickers here.
2 - Make sure if someone's name is on 2 machines, they are only getting 1. They may have put in orders through different distributors because communication was a bit crazy on Monday. It's likely they only really wanted 1 machine anyhow.
3 - If you still have guys that got their CE orders reversed, offer them the LE at a discount or maybe free shipping. Help soften that blow.
If things 1 and 2 are done, the problem may be solved. If you have to go to option 3, so be it. Knock off $250-$500 on an LE or give free shipping. This would really help save the situation.

You were all good till your #3.

16
#244 3 months ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

I feel like I assigned no fault to anyone but us.
As I originally said, I don't think anyone expected that level of demand. So that would mostly fall on us.

Keith - I for one really appreciate you coming on here and posting. It helps believe it or not. Don’t let the blowhards get to you.

#245 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It's disrespectful because he didn't ask for your honest feedback and he doesn't need it. He was offering an explanation. It's not a negotiation. Keefer doesn't have the power to make sure you get the CE you want, so why berate him or give him obnoxious "honest feedback?"
He also didn't ask for the annoying PMs about code, sales, how to get a CE, and other things that are likely flooding his inbox as we speak, either.
Would be great if these guys would start offering us all unasked for "honest feedback" about how we do our jobs.

How many have ever needed your honest feedback about any post made? Bravo with obnoxious, just bravo . So now, I guess you have to wait for people to ask for your honest feedback- got it.

If my job was anything to do with selling pins and I’m commenting with consumers on a pinball site, why wouldn’t he want or expect feedback? People are upset but nobody is burning JJP pins. People got hosed and are looking for answers. Answers confirmed- JJP screwed up, full stop.
Or are you just poking the bear because you are a Stern fan? Bravo sir, bravo

#246 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

So you are in agreement with me that any company rep posting on pinside is making a mistake?
People always whine about the "lack of communication" from manufacturers. Well, this is why.

I could give two shits if they post or not...we already know what happened. JJP screwed their distribution channel and in return they pissed off loyal customers who may or may not ever buy from them again. Whats really pathetic is this shit show was sooooo easy to prevent....its a simple math problem that my 10 year old could do.

#247 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

So you are in agreement with me that any company rep posting on pinside is making a mistake?
People always whine about the "lack of communication" from manufacturers. Well, this is why.

Yes, I generally agree with you that company representatives typically shouldn't be posting on general forums. From a marketing/PR standpoint, there isn't much good that can come from it.

If JJP wants to comment about the CE debacle, specifically on Pinside, the proper communication channel should come from Ken Cromwell, especially for delicate situations like this.

People whining about the "lack of communication" from manufacturers, folks shouldn't expect their communication coming in the form of forums. It should be coming in the form of official statements, phone calls, emails, official social media accounts, etc. If businesses are not connecting with their customers, then shame on them.

#248 3 months ago
Quoted from bgwilly31:

You were all good till your #3.

Why do you say that? Not being argumentative. Just curious what your thoughts are.

#249 3 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

I could give two shits if they post or not...we already know what happened. JJP screwed their distribution channel and in return they pissed off loyal customers who may or may not ever buy from them again. Whats really pathetic is this shit show was sooooo easy to prevent....its a simple math problem that my 10 year old could do.

So your 10 year old kid can run a pinball company and the entire distribution network. Smart kid. Pinball is easy.

#250 3 months ago
Quoted from djsoup:

I actually like the CE art the best. I'm on the list for a CE with my distributor, but they dont know how many they are getting yet. Hoping I'm one of the lucky ones!

No word yet. Not sure if I'd switch to LE if offered one instead since I was dead set on a CE. I know its the same game but its tough to settle. AFD was such an iconic album to me. I remember seeing it for the first time when I was a kid and the art shocked me. I like that the characters are featured on the cabinet of the CE, so its nostalgic to me.. even though the LE art is still great, I still prefer the art on the CE. Had I known this would happen I probably wouldve ordered directly from JJP site but I wanted to support my local distributor since he's awesome. I have a feeling I wont get one.. but its not the end of the world, just a real bummer.

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