Guns N' Roses (CE)
Jersey Jack, 2020I’m there with you. Got burned on ce. Bummed to slum with an le. I also will not pay extra for a used ce, nib with warranty or nothing. I’ll just get an le instead. I also won’t buy a cash grab different colored ce or whatever in the future.
Still super pissed Jjp got greedy and f’ed over their distributors and Loyal consumers.
Will someone please explain to me how JJP refusing to accept $13k from you drama queens is a “greedy cash grab?”
Seems like the opposite.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Will someone please explain to me how JJP refusing to accept $13k from you drama queens is a “greedy cash grab?”
Seems like the opposite.
From what I’m reading, the story that many of you are now self-soothing yourselves with is, and I think JJP is feeding you is...
“Due to overwhelming demand that no one could have foreseen at JJP, so many CEs sold on our website that when we finally chose to take a look at the end of the day, it hit us for the first time that we will have to drastically cut back distributor allocations. Sorry everyone, it’s the demand that did this, the success of the title that did this, sorry.”
Bullshit. And many of you are taking this hook, line and sinker.
Here’s what happened:
1. JJP has strong and long-standing relationships with their distributors, large and small, and they knew full well what approximate allocation each one was ***expecting*** to get. In other words, they knew that some larger distributor would be furious if they would get only 5 when normally they get 10 and that a small distributor would be furious to know they would get 1 instead of 3.
2. Throughout the first day, and perhaps even by the minute, someone was at JJP was refreshing the website sales numbers and knew what was happening. There was no surprise at the end of the day. They were excited as hell and watching like a hawk.
3. They knew in advance that every direct sale would lead to one less allocation to some distributor. This is exactly the point of what JJP set up here to maximize profit.
4. To pull this maximizing off, the decision was made to purposefully delay sending distributors allocation numbers. They knew full well at in advance that leaving this gray area would lead to more profit for them. It was no accident, rather a smart calculation to maximize profit. If you think that it didnt cross their minds that sales could be high and that they just forgot to send out allocations, you are an idiot, sorry. They are not that clueless, the gray area was a tactic used to their advantage.
5. As they were actively watching the rapid website sales occur during the day, there came a point where instead of just knowing that there would be large disappointment from distributors, there would now be outcry, so they stopped the direct sales. In other words they waited until they maximized profit at the point where they thought they could still get away with it - could still placate their distributors with a game or two etc and spin some story.
6. JJP are not so clueless that they didn’t know that their distributors would have certain expectations or that some or many of their distributors were taking deposits.
The only thing clueless are those of you who think that JJP were so clueless and that it was only by accident that this cluelessness happened to accidentally line up exactly with maximizing profits that day.
In summary, JJP is a business and they reserve the right to maximize profits however they choose. And on Monday they did exactly that. They made calculated decisions not just one day at a time and leading up to Monday, but each and every minute that day to maximize profits.
They made the decision that the distributor and customer dissapointment they knew was coming was a trade-off for this profit and they took the profit. There was no conspiracy and nothing nefarious happened. Just a company making profit and we can’t fault them for this.
This is calculation for profit, not accident. Simple.
So don’t buy all the rest of the BS. Next time order direct.
Quoted from mslow:From what I’m reading, the story that many of you are now self-soothing yourselves with is, and I think JJP is feeding you is...
“Due to overwhelming demand that no one could have foreseen at JJP, so many CEs sold on our website that when we finally chose to take a look at the end of the day, it hit us for the first time that we will have to drastically cut back distributor allocations. Sorry everyone, it’s the demand that did this, the success of the title that did this, sorry.”
Bullshit. And many of you are taking this hook, line and sinker.
Here’s what happened:
1. JJP has strong and long-standing relationships with their distributors, large and small, and they knew full well what approximate allocation each one was ***expecting*** to get. In other words, they knew that some larger distributor would be furious if they would get only 5 when normally they get 10 and that a small distributor would be furious to know they would get 1 instead of 3.
2. Throughout the first day, and perhaps even by the minute, someone was at JJP was refreshing the website sales numbers and knew what was happening. There was no surprise at the end of the day. They were excited as hell and watching like a hawk.
3. They knew in advance that every direct sale would lead to one less allocation to some distributor. This is exactly the point of what JJP set up here to maximize profit.
4. To pull this maximizing off, the decision was made to purposefully delay sending distributors allocation numbers. They knew full well at in advance that leaving this gray area would lead to more profit for them. It was no accident, rather a smart calculation to maximize profit. If you think that it didnt cross their minds that sales could be high and that they just forgot to send out allocations, you are an idiot, sorry. They are not that clueless, the gray area was a tactic used to their advantage.
5. As they were actively watching the rapid website sales occur during the day, there came a point where instead of just knowing that there would be large disappointment from distributors, there would now be outcry, so they stopped the direct sales. In other words they waited until they maximized profit at the point where they thought they could still get away with it - could still placate their distributors with a game or two etc and spin some story.
6. JJP are not so clueless that they didn’t know that their distributors would have certain expectations or that some or many of their distributors were taking deposits.
The only thing clueless are those of you who think that JJP were so clueless and that it was only by accident that this cluelessness happened to accidentally line up exactly with maximizing profits that day.
In summary, JJP is a business and they reserve the right to maximize profits however they choose. And on Monday they did exactly that. They made calculated decisions not just one day at a time and leading up to Monday, but each and every minute that day to maximize profits.
They made the decision that the distributor and customer dissapointment they knew was coming was a trade-off for this profit and they took the profit. There was no conspiracy and nothing nefarious happened. Just a company making profit and we can’t fault them for this.
This is calculation for profit, not accident. Simple.
So don’t buy all the rest of the BS. Next time order direct.
No shit. No one is believing their bs but txs for mansplaining it for us tips
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Will someone please explain to me how JJP refusing to accept $13k from you drama queens is a “greedy cash grab?”
Seems like the opposite.
The greedy cash grab, or at least how I referenced it, meant if there’s a new ‘ce’ or such down the road similar to woz ruby red woz yellow etc.
Quoted from extraballingtmc:The greedy cash grab, or at least how I referenced it, meant if there’s a new ‘ce’ or such down the road similar to woz ruby red woz yellow etc.
I thought the greed accusations were about cutting out their distributors in favor of selling direct.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Will someone please explain to me how JJP refusing to accept $13k from you drama queens is a “greedy cash grab?”
Seems like the opposite.
By cutting out their distributors. But maybe they will make it right or already did by bringing a great game to market. The real damage done was the distributor/home buyer relationship. Many will just buy direct from now on.
Quoted from seenev:I thought the greed accusations were about cutting out their distributors in favor of selling direct.
Ahh yes you are right. Right now the greed is taking the higher profit and screwing distributors out of sales. In future the greed will be some new limited model or such, same as woz and hobbit.
Quoted from extraballingtmc:Ahh yes you are right. Right now the greed is taking the higher profit and screwing distributors out of sales. In future the greed will be some new limited model or such, same as woz and hobbit.
Well they better announce the new limited model soon because many of us are buying LEs and are going to be happy with them!
Although I think its BS that they locked out their distribution channel on the CE's in the end greed is good for any company. This is the new JJP, and its about making a great product and maximizing profit....nothing wrong with that. Now we all know what to do if your interested in their next CE. Jump on their website and wait until you can put one in your shopping cart and buy it....u have to assume none will go to distributors in the future.
Quoted from PtownPin:Although I think its BS that they locked out their distribution channel on the CE's in the end greed is good for any company. This is the new JJP, and its about making a great product and maximizing profit....nothing wrong with that. Now we all know what to do if your interested in their next CE. Jump on their website and wait until you can put one in your shopping cart and buy it....u have to assume none will go to distributors in the future.
I wonder how many JJP distributors will upvote your post?
Quoted from cooked71:U sure? Just a heads up.......your Elvira topper is shipping...... u sure u can afford a JJP LE now?
Just jk. This game is too good pass up in any any version.
Elvira topper yay! GNR LE Yay! Avengers! Yay! What a time to be alive!
So, I wonder how many people who missed out on a CE will stick with GnR and grab an LE. Are the guesstimates that 200 people wanted a CE and couldn’t get one or is it higher? Seems like most are grabbing an LE by the posts here, no way for us to know unless a distributor like JJ opines.
Good question on how many LE’s are selling. I see some people buying nothing because they lost their CE. Others getting an LE instead. And of course some want to see if they add a version down the road. My personal opinion is new versions of WOZ and TH were added to stimulate sales/interest. With WOZ being the only game on the line and the second game was a couple years from production my guess is adding the RR WOZ was a chance they took to get some immediate sales and it worked. Same situation I guess between TH and game #3. Since GnR is shipping now and already on the line I don’t know it makes sense to add another version unless they stall on release of the next game. And since the CE actually sold out they should already have the next game lined out and timeline for release....turn and burn just like Stern. And some are waiting to see the SE and are holding back from pulling the trigger on a LE.
Quoted from mslow:In summary, JJP is a business and they reserve the right to maximize profits however they choose.
End of story...
Quoted from MrBally:I wonder how many JJP distributors will upvote your post?
I don't agree with the policy, and I think it sucks, but unless JJP changes their policy what are your options if you really want their CE?
Quoted from rai:I’m about to order one LE vs SE.
Only debate is how fun / important is the upper PF?
Since there’s no time pressure now, why not wait a bit and play both first before ordering? If you like the cheap one better you just paid for your next weekend in Vegas with the difference.
Quoted from PtownPin:I don't agree with the policy, and I think it sucks, but unless JJP changes their policy what are your options if you really want their CE?
Hopefully jjp will learn from this and we will get out allocation number before the release.
Quoted from KingPinGames:Hopefully jjp will learn from this and we will get out allocation number before the release.
Christopher with your connection to JJP I’m surprised you got caught up in this too.
If I don’t end up finding a ce, still hoping people back out, I will get the le. I will wait a couple months first though. Want to play it and also wait until the ce ships so that’s no longer a slim chance.
Quoted from KingPinGames:Hopefully jjp will learn from this and we will get out allocation number before the release.
No doubt....its really a simple problem to solve...just allocate CE numbers prior to launch and all is good.
There's plenty of good games available from other manufacturers, easy enough to wait a year or two for the inevitable re-release... perhaps we'll get CE hardware on a "Slash special edition" in 2021.
If not, no biggie.. there will be other games with good lightshows coming out after this one.. LEDs are cheap. The art on the SE is hideous, the LE is the consolation prize... I have no problem waiting for them to produce what I want to buy, rather than settle for what they want to sell.
Keep that in mind... if you really want the CE game hardware, write a polite note to JJP explaining your money is ready when that is available, and then just don't buy the LE or SE. They need us to buy more than we need them to sell.
Quoted from rai:I’m about to order one LE vs SE.
Only debate is how fun / important is the upper PF?
A lot of this game is about how the game looks and the upper playfield is a good part of the cool factor
Quoted from JY64:A lot of this game is about how the game looks and the upper playfield is a good part of the cool factor
I understand this game looks cool with the upper PF, but the fact that two versions exist begs the question if the upper PF is essential or not.
I can not compare Woz or Tspp without upper PF because all versions have upper PF.
Just like I can't say what about if AFM had an upper PF (like GNR) so how would that be?? I can not say, but likely the upper PF would slow down the game and be somewhat needless to the enjoyment of the pin. Maybe just a filler to make it look like it has more stuff.
But if you have two versions like Metallica (one with hammer and physical ball lock and one without hammer and just a virtual ball lock) in my Metallica example.. 100% the hammer / lock looks cool and it adds a wow factor to the pin, but it is *NOT* essential and some people do prefer the pro or maybe they like it just the same as the premium but it's $2K cheaper.
GoT and BKSOR (I prefer the pro).
Quoted from rai:I understand this game looks cool with the upper PF, but the fact that two versions exist begs the question if the upper PF is essential or not.
I can not compare Woz or Tspp without upper PF because all versions have upper PF.
Just like I can't say what about if AFM had an upper PF (like GNR) so how would that be?? I can not say, but likely the upper PF would slow down the game and be somewhat needless to the enjoyment of the pin. Maybe just a filler to make it look like it has more stuff.
But if you have two versions like Metallica (one with hammer and physical ball lock and one without hammer and just a virtual ball lock) in my Metallica example.. 100% the hammer / lock looks cool and it adds a wow factor to the pin, but it is *NOT* essential and some people do prefer the pro or maybe they like it just the same as the premium but it's $2K cheaper.
GoT and BKSOR (I prefer the pro).
Hopefully we see the SE gameplay this week since they were on the line at start of last week or before.
Only issue with the SE is the art, I think everything else will turn out to be quite good.
Quoted from Psw757:Hopefully we see the SE gameplay this week since they were on the line at start of last week or before.
Only issue with the SE is the art, I think everything else will turn out to be quite good.
I’m bummed about the art.
I was just going to buy a SE but figured might as well wait so I can see the light show comparison to the LE.
Quoted from Psw757:Hopefully we see the SE gameplay this week since they were on the line at start of last week or before.
Only issue with the SE is the art, I think everything else will turn out to be quite good.
At least the SE art is tied into the game. One of those mini wizards features the ratfink art style of those roadsters in the dessert. Pretty sure I saw that in one of the vids. Would've been nice to see it carry to the playfield a little more, but hey, it's under $7K.
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:At least the SE art is tied into the game.
Yeah, that's another cool little detail, each cab art package is featured in an album mode.
Quoted from PtownPin:Although I think its BS that they locked out their distribution channel on the CE's in the end greed is good for any company. This is the new JJP, and its about making a great product and maximizing profit....nothing wrong with that. Now we all know what to do if your interested in their next CE. Jump on their website and wait until you can put one in your shopping cart and buy it....u have to assume none will go to distributors in the future.
Problem in the future will be when JJP calls a distributor to do them a favor and fix a game that was sold direct. I could see many distributors telling JJP no more doing warranty fixes for free on direct sold machines. When you screw over your distributors AKA the people who service and fix your machines, probably won't end well i'm thinking.
Quoted from PDX-Mike:Problem in the future will be when JJP calls a distributor to do them a favor and fix a game that was sold direct. I could see many distributors telling JJP no more doing warranty fixes for free on direct sold machines. When you screw over your distributors AKA the people who service and fix your machines, probably wont end well i'm thinking.
Would a distributor really do a free repair on a game they didn’t sell? Maybe something minor to build goodwill with the customer, but it’s hard to believe they wouldn’t look to JJP to cover the cost of significant warranty work on a machine someone else sold.
Quoted from fosaisu:Would a distributor really do a free repair on a game they didn’t sell? Maybe something minor to build goodwill with the customer, but it’s hard to believe they wouldn’t look to JJP to cover the cost of significant warranty work on a machine someone else sold.
Absolutely!! I know for a fact JJP does this on a semi regular basis, even if JJP sends the parts out the distro is still out labor. Bottom line is if everyone goes direct, who's fixing these machines when they break under warranty?
Quoted from PDX-Mike:Absolutely!! I know for a fact JJP does this on a semi regular basis, even if JJP sends the parts out the distro is still out labor. Bottom line is if everyone goes direct, who's fixing these machines when they break under warranty?
Same as Stern!
You can save the 3K on the CE and pick up an LE + Gibson Slash Signature Les Paul ($2999)
For my money (I have a nice Les Paul) It’s a better option. 
https://www.gibson.com/Guitar/USAC69345/Slash-Les-Paul-Standard/November-Burst
Quoted from PDX-Mike:Problem in the future will be when JJP calls a distributor to do them a favor and fix a game that was sold direct. I could see many distributors telling JJP no more doing warranty fixes for free on direct sold machines. When you screw over your distributors AKA the people who service and fix your machines, probably won't end well i'm thinking.
Totally get it....I've never bought a game direct, but unless JJP tells everyone things have changed you have no choice if u want to get a future CE. Unless JJP allocates prior to selling on line so distributors know how many they have to sell, and we eliminate the mess JJP created.
Quoted from delt31:So did anyone who bought direct get told no later on or is it just dealers?
This guy says he got burned buying from JJP, but it isn’t clear if he actually had a deposit down or just a game in the shopping cart.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wanted-guns-n-roses-ce-9#post-5913471
Quoted from o-din:I got burned when I spilled boiling water on my foot. Should I start a new thread?
Buy some closed-toed shoes, ya hippie.
I ended up with 2 CE’s (for awhile). I had intel of the impending shit show and ordered direct late at night after ordering at 0953 am with my distributor. So JJP kept my direct order and my distributor got to give my spot to another person on their list. While two would have been nice, I’m fine with it since Really was just a backup in case I fell off my distributors allotments. Only thing I hope is I get credit for when I ordered thru Distributor cause the direct was like 10:30pm Or later.
Shameless plug for a good cause on the CE:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-guns-n-roses-ce#post-5918330
Quoted from PDX-Mike:Problem in the future will be when JJP calls a distributor to do them a favor and fix a game that was sold direct. I could see many distributors telling JJP no more doing warranty fixes for free on direct sold machines. When you screw over your distributors AKA the people who service and fix your machines, probably won't end well i'm thinking.
Amen, Jack has made too many mistakes, starting with the several different limited editions of WOZ. I've got to believe the investors are going to be pulling him out of a decision making position soon. He is losing his customer base quickly.
Sean
Quoted from scasey:Amen, Jack has made too many mistakes, starting with the several different limited editions of WOZ. I've got to believe the investors are going to be pulling him out of a decision making position soon. He is losing his customer base quickly.
Sean
Thank you, but your alittle late with that assessment!
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