(Topic ID: 278928)

I got burned JJP GnR CE deposit

By mslow

3 years ago


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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Louwie
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There are 657 posts in this topic. You are on page 12 of 14.
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#551 3 years ago

Not gonna read eleven pages of this stuff, but long story short, you guys want truly limited games, you get the pain of missing out that comes with it. If everyone could get one, JJP couldn't sell 500 for $12.5k in one day. Sure, it sucks to have the rug pulled out from under you (insert Lebowski joke here), but if everyone could get in the club, it wouldn't be exclusive.

Good news is that 500 is a lot in pinball. People will back out, sell HUO after 86 plays, whatever. If you're patient you'll be able to pick one up for around MSRP when the new ooh-shiny comes along. Or, you know, just slum it with a regular LE and save $3k.

-1
#552 3 years ago
Quoted from turbo20lbs:

Can you kindly STFU about the LE and leave us "delusional" folk who are NOT surprised the CE sold out, be in peace ?

Yeesh man. Lighten up, about him...lightening up.

I completely get the frustration, but yeah....try to focus on the good. The game at LE, and maybe even standard as well, is excellent and immerse, and the biggest lost even to me, feels like collectible status more than gameplay or yes, possibly art direction.

Quoted from djsoup:

Welp.. I just got the news from my distributor that I'm not one of the lucky ones either, and they asked me if I'd like to move my reservation to an LE. I just dont know how to respond.. I guess I gotta really think about it since I was dead set on a CE so its not that easy to settle for the LE when I wanted a CE. Its a tough pill to swallow as I'm sure its been for others. Everyone saying "just get the LE and be happy" is not really the point. Getting what you wanted/expected would make those who wanted a CE happy. Getting an LE because its the "same game" is a pretty lame excuse to me. I think to most people who wanted a CE its a bit more complex than that also. I might be one of the exceptions but I prefer the art on the CE over the LE art, so anyone who says real GNR fans prefer LE art is silly, since art is subjective. As a GNR fan, numbers dont matter to me either.. and it seems like to the flippers it does.. and seeing people boycotting any kind of CE increase just makes me think their motives are tied to gouging fans that missed out in the long term since they dont plan on keeping them. The point of a collectors item is that, to be collected. This for most fans would be a bolted down pin and they should have expected this with such an iconic band and a low production run.. Even Rick and Morty was 750 and they sold out in hours! 5,000 LE's? Why such a huge gap? Theres plenty of opportunity to get an LE, but it seems like the CE's were doomed from the start. As a GNR fan I still want this pin, but do I settle for an LE now or do I wait and take my chances hoping for a CE to pop up in the future that is (hopefully) reasonably priced.. ? Ugh.

Good news is, you and many others, tried. If you hadn't tried, and wanted it later, you could beat yourself up, but you tried, and it wasn't possible. And that's okay. Consider it "fate" telling you 3K in pocket for the NEXT Eric pin is ultimately the best thing possible!

#553 3 years ago

After seeing gameplay vids I’d be surprised if heaps of people don’t pull out. Looks boring as hell and a chore to play with the constant multiball

#554 3 years ago
Quoted from rai:

...the LE (to me) has better cabinet art. I don’t notice the PF art not sure if the gold glitter is good, bad or neutral.

The LE cabinet art is better for sure. No question. I like the metal flake on the legs and armor, too. I can't tell from the photos, but the CE might be a regular gloss paint. One thing I know I don't like on the CE is the laser cut details they added to the sides. Too busy. Really, the only thing I might miss with the LE is the Coma ball lock in the apron, but I don't see that as big of a deal as say, oh, removing the flying monkey from the Yellow Brick Oz.

Quoted from rai:

I hope to play first before getting a LE. If anyone has one in Central Florida let me know I’d like to play before committing $10k

I wonder if they'll get one at The Pinball Lounge in Oviedo.

#555 3 years ago

I'm a bit worried about the gameplay. The other issue which hasn't been the case before is that the LE isn't quite a 'complete' game. It always was previously, and this puts me off.

But once I've played this I'll make a decision about the LE, assuming they don't sell out too. So much for a global recession, eh?

24
#556 3 years ago

The one takeaway I have from reading all the GNR threads, at least I know who the GNR art snobs are.

Quoted from rai:

I missed out on CE but the LE art looks better to me.

Quoted from rai:

However.... the LE (to me) has better cabinet art.

Quoted from rai:

To me the GnR LE with the show posters looks cool different than other pins, like the way they look. Plus a lot of different styles and art details. CE art is also good but I just prefer the LE.

Quoted from rai:

I know it's silly to draw the line at $500 extra but that was how much I was on the fence with also wanting the LE initially and still like the art on the LE.

Quoted from rai:

Anyway imo the art on the LE and armor color is better to me.

Quoted from delt31:

Bc we all know AFD was purple! Looks silly along with that art with a pinball on it. Sorry but GnR art shouldn't ever include an actual pinball.

Quoted from delt31:

This game is literally available as an LE that I believe the majority prefers art wise and all of the extras, literally, can be added except maybe 1 or 2 things?

Quoted from delt31:

I feel the same way. That is not AFD - that's artwork with a pinball on it and even worse, a robot on the front? What? The cross has a girl with blue hair? I get they're part of the band now but that's not true GnR AFD! Those concert posters - those are real life posters from the tour - not some interpretation made for pinball. It's like the flippers added to the GnR logo. I hate that. GnR is cool - pinball, well cmon now.
I get the CE guys are bummed b/c you ordered something and didn't get it but how anyone could prefer that art is beyond me. Again - a robot is on the front of the game.

Quoted from delt31:

art could have been a black box and it was selling out. Or better yet, that terrible SE art. Had nothing to do with that. This was flippers 101 and diehards.

Quoted from delt31:

All subjective but I rather have the DE GnR art than the CE or SE. The SE is even worse than the CE. The LE is so nice!

Quoted from delt31:

LE for me! That art is great and just has what I need. If the CE art was flipped with LE JJP might have got me with the CE but I'm not a fan of that art at all, with SE being the worst if the bunch.

Quoted from delt31:

Cabinet art is all subjective. I'm down with the LE no question. Best of the bunch IMO. Really matches that concert feel.

Quoted from delt31:

Thank you!
Art is busy but cool.

Quoted from delt31:

Very high level but here we go:
Art - SE is terrible. Really don't like it at all. LE is busy but I like it. CE - OK but for 12.5, expected more.

Quoted from delt31:

I’m loving what I’m seeing thus far. Art for me makes this so easy. LE is leaps and bounds better. Overall looks to be a great package

Quoted from delt31:

The main reason I'm out on the CE and went in on LE is artwork. I really love the LE artwork and really don't like the CE. Purple for GnR? Pinball on the side art is really just not GnR style. If the art was flipped I would be in on CE so they actually saved me some $$. haha
Congrats to JJP for selling a ton of these!!!!!

30
#557 3 years ago

Upvoted for the amount of work that went into that post.

#558 3 years ago
Quoted from yancy:

If everyone could get one, JJP couldn't sell 500 for $12.5k in one day.

This is what it comes down to from JJP's point of view. Does scarcity increase sales? In this case, I don't think so. I think they sold 500 in one day because it's a kick ass game, and the mech lock, signatures etc. make the added cost worth it. They could have sold many more.

Ferrari and Lamborghini have been killing it lately because their models are great, and now you can get one if you have the money.

(agree with the rest of your post)
((I can't afford a Lambo))

#559 3 years ago
Quoted from pinrock:

The good news is at this point there is no rush to make a decision, with 5000 LEs being made, you'll always be able to get one later.

That same logic already backfired for many on the CE. Most GnR fans I know had no idea the machine was coming or is now available; the word is more or less just getting out. And while there are plenty on Pinside who don't like the band or the music, worldwide, GnR brings in crazy money and has a huge following. We know people who probably spend the cost of an LE and maybe even a CE to fly to other countries to see them on a whim. They have that kind of fanbase. I'd order sooner than later, as the LE is a huge upgrade, looks and content-wise, over the SE.

#560 3 years ago

How much do you guys see a ce going for now?

#561 3 years ago
Quoted from Hammer1021:

How much do you guys see a ce going for now?

Apparently less than a Pirates LE....

#562 3 years ago
Quoted from player-one:

That same logic already backfired for many on the CE. Most GnR fans I know had no idea the machine was coming or is now available; the word is more or less just getting out. And while there are plenty on Pinside who don't like the band or the music, worldwide, GnR brings in crazy money and has a huge following. We know people who probably spend the cost of an LE and maybe even a CE to fly to other countries to see them on a whim. They have that kind of fanbase. I'd order sooner than later, as the LE is a huge upgrade, looks and content-wise, over the SE.

It may sell out. But at producing 30 a week it’s going to take years to produce them all. I would still buy one ASAP if you are thinking about it.

#563 3 years ago
Quoted from Jecco74:

It may sell out. But at producing 30 a week it’s going to take years to produce them all. I would still buy one ASAP if you are thinking about it.

Where did you come up with that rate? I think it’s 25-30 per Day not week.

#564 3 years ago

Missed the CE by a ball hair.
As others have stated, wanted to at least see a snipit of gameplay before dropping 12.5.

Don’t like LE art - GnR overkill on a patchwork blanket.

Even though it’s not original AFD the CE is more true to 1987 GnR and I wanted mirror Rad Cal.
The topper is crap, should have been dual pistols WTF !!

So.....going forward, one would think, JJP would drop a communication one way or another to inform folk:
A. There will be no additional CEs
B. There will be an additional xxx to cater for those who missed out

That way no one is in limbo and can move on.
I for one am hopeful for B but don’t want LEs to sell out while I wait for an update!!
Also, the longer they wait, can you imagine how many more disgruntled pinheads there will be if peeps buy an LE thinking there won’t be anymore CEs only for them to make more available 3 weeks down the line FFS!

11
#565 3 years ago

I would have that line working 24/7 to get that high margin CE $$$ locked in asap

#566 3 years ago
Quoted from Lrrr:

This is what it comes down to from JJP's point of view. Does scarcity increase sales? In this case, I don't think so. I think they sold 500 in one day because it's a kick ass game, and the mech lock, signatures etc. make the added cost worth it. They could have sold many more.
Ferrari and Lamborghini have been killing it lately because their models are great, and now you can get one if you have the money.
(agree with the rest of your post)
((I can't afford a Lambo))

I don't know.........

Scarcity brings out.....

Flippers and they buy up a block of games and there is not any more to go around, people flip out and pay more.

True scarcity doesn't make a game valuable, XMLE is very scarce and not any premium so less than 600 and that game is not too valuable.

If there was unlimited of say 1500 of the CE, there would not be any flippers buying up a large number to sell later at a hike.

I don't want to say but it could still be dealers looking to sell later for more, maybe they say my allocation is low (but I'm keeping 5 for my friends and family don't you know?)

#567 3 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I don't know.........
Scarcity brings out.....
Flippers and they buy up a block of games and there is not any more to go around, people flip out and pay more.
True scarcity doesn't make a game valuable, XMLE is very scarce and not any premium so less than 600 and that game is not too valuable.
If there was unlimited of say 1500 of the CE, there would not be any flippers buying up a large number to sell later at a hike.
I don't want to say but it could still be dealers looking to sell later for more, maybe they say my allocation is low (but I'm keeping 5 for my friends and family don't you know?)

Def not the dealers except for maybe Joe at Pinballstar and Chris at Kingpin, Eric’s brother, who have the inside track I’m sure

#568 3 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I don't know.........
Scarcity brings out.....
Flippers and they buy up a block of games and there is not any more to go around, people flip out and pay more.
True scarcity doesn't make a game valuable, XMLE is very scarce and not any premium so less than 600 and that game is not too valuable.
If there was unlimited of say 1500 of the CE, there would not be any flippers buying up a large number to sell later at a hike.
I don't want to say but it could still be dealers looking to sell later for more, maybe they say my allocation is low (but I'm keeping 5 for my friends and family don't you know?)

Do you really think there are a lot of flippers out there? How many do u think were sold in the USA versus the balance of the planet?

#569 3 years ago

Well, you will see how many flippers as soon as these puppies start the ship.

#570 3 years ago

I'm pretty sure I've seen games exchange hold onto games to sell for more. They had MBrLE for $1000 more than MSRP back when I was looking for one.

37
#571 3 years ago

A plea to the "flippers"....

PLEASE just put the game up for sale with your added vig. We really don't need to hear about all the health problems in your family and the other reasons you are trying to sell the CE for a $10,000 profit.

These gambits demean all of us, and make it seem like pinball is a deadly hobby for our relatives! Just put your game up for sale without any "excuses" and let nature take its course.

THanks in advance!

#572 3 years ago
Quoted from AFM95:

The one takeaway I have from reading all the GNR threads, at least I know who the GNR art snobs are.

I'm not a rock fan and not really interested in this pin (although I did enjoy the old GNR pin when I played it on location). When I first saw the 3 art packages, without seeing which belonged to which edition, I thought the LE art was probably the standard edition. I guess that's my least favorite. It's too busy for me. I'm kind of torn on the other two. I like the backbox and backglass art and colors on the CE best for what it's worth.

#573 3 years ago
Quoted from rai:

iirc Metallica they didn’t announce the premium until after the LE so people might have thought there was not going to be a premium (but this might have been TWD I can’t remember).

MET had a premium day one, but it was the roadcase old dude version. They released the monster premium later. I believe it was TWD that had the premium announced, later, as you pointed out. I like the pro best on both of those games Looking forward to seeing some GNR SE gameplay.

#574 3 years ago
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

I like the pro best on both of those games Looking forward to seeing some GNR SE gameplay.

I have both Met pro and TWD pro not going anywhere. (I think those two games with color DMD, shaker etc.. cost $11K ish) lots of good value there..

This is why *I* didn't thing 12.5K would sell out so fast but here we go, if there are flippers and these CEs go for $15K JJP will see they're leaving money on the table and that people will pay more and more.

#575 3 years ago
Quoted from AFM95:

The one takeaway I have from reading all the GNR threads, at least I know who the GNR art snobs are.

Damn that was a lot of work but fair point. The art on this game is very important to me.

#576 3 years ago

500 hundred people.
We forget how small our hobby still is.
19,000 Flash.
23,000 Addams family.
11,000 Space Invaders.
Pinball's bigger today than it's been in 20 years, but we still got a ways to go.

500-2_med_hr (resized).png500-2_med_hr (resized).png
12
#577 3 years ago
Quoted from gonzo73:

500 hundred people.
We forget how small our hobby still is.
19,000 Flash.
23,000 Addams family.
11,000 Space Invaders.
Pinball's bigger today than it's been in 20 years, but we still got a ways to go.[quoted image]

ah...where are the masks?! ...fuckin' dangerous!

#578 3 years ago

Look up Batman SLE or Elvira Signature on eBay! Question answered!

#579 3 years ago
Quoted from Lrrr:

This is what it comes down to from JJP's point of view. Does scarcity increase sales? In this case, I don't think so. I think they sold 500 in one day because it's a kick ass game, and the mech lock, signatures etc. make the added cost worth it. They could have sold many more.
Ferrari and Lamborghini have been killing it lately because their models are great, and now you can get one if you have the money.
(agree with the rest of your post)
((I can't afford a Lambo))

New Lambo’s have many defects also
For that money it should be perfect

Trust me

#580 3 years ago
Quoted from gonzo73:

500 hundred people.

That's 50 000 people - best seller!

16
#581 3 years ago

Default song ball saver is 10s. Default max is 60s. You can also limit per-member (default 10s). In-song add-a-balls have a ball saver of like 2s. It's extremely easy to continue, get a ball, lose it instantly, then be in a bad spot getting to your next mode continue choice.

You can make the game play like you want. But if the game was so easy you'd see everyone get to the end of every song and guess what? Just almost never happens.

#582 3 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

Default song ball saver is 10s. Default max is 60s. You can also limit per-member (default 10s). In-song add-a-balls have a ball saver of like 2s. It's extremely easy to continue, get a ball, lose it instantly, then be in a bad spot getting to your next mode continue choice.
You can make the game play like you want. But if the game was so easy you'd see everyone get to the end of every song and guess what? Just almost never happens.

With the utmost respect, you are absolutely right that the game clearly isn’t easy even with the multiballs. And without them available so frequently, it would be that much harder.

I think what throws some people off is that with the apparent default settings of the game the percentage of time spent in multiball seems to be atypically high compared to other games. The alternative to this is of course to change the settings if the owner doesn’t prefer it, but the fear some potential buyers have is that doing so would somehow limit the enjoyment of the ruleset because it wasn’t built for it. Maybe that fear is overblown?

Again, I write this truly with respect and admiration for an incredibly impressive game.

#583 3 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Do you really think there are a lot of flippers out there? How many do u think were sold in the USA versus the balance of the planet?

Australia got 10.

-2
#584 3 years ago

Not only did they under produce, but they underpriced! Many here are forgetting that there is such a thing as price elasticity. If JJP charged $13,500-15,000 for the CE game, a decent number of people that ordered a CE would not have. Flippers only arise when people start offering to pay 20-25% more for a pin, most buyers make the call on whether to buy a CE based on what you get. Given the unique features, the CE should have been priced higher. JJP is clueless, once again they don’t know their own pinball market. They have been making crap rainbow themed CE’s for years with no differentiation and couldn’t figure out why they were not selling out. Aside from Eric, JJP is an outdated, mom jeans wearing company. Stern has always been a more current, “cooler” company.

#585 3 years ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Australia got 10.

And was expecting 30 and had over 40 people on the list. Oh well more LEs sold!!

#586 3 years ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Australia got 10.

Wow....although they were shipping POTC LE's from Australia back to the USA last year....Does JJP's typically sell well in Australia?

#587 3 years ago
Quoted from jokerpoker:

And was expecting 30 and had over 40 people on the list. Oh well more LEs sold!!

Gotcha...I wonder how many of the CE's will stay in the USA? Maybe half?

#588 3 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Gotcha...I wonder how many of the CE's will stay in the USA? Maybe half?

IF Australia is only getting 10, then I would think 350-400 are staying in USA with a majority of whats left, going to EU

#589 3 years ago
Quoted from jokerpoker:

And was expecting 30 and had over 40 people on the list. Oh well more LEs sold!!

Man, that stinks!

But yeah, money saved for the next game!!!

#590 3 years ago
Quoted from Joe-Ker:

IF Australia is only getting 10, then I would think 350-400 are staying in USA with a majority of whats left, going to EU

I am guessing 400 will stay in the USA. How many got allotted to Canada? Probably 10-20? The same amount of AIQLE we got likely.

#591 3 years ago

The Australian situation is farcical. Really feel for the distributor down here. JJP f*cked up royally- here’s hoping they realise and correct the situation.

#592 3 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

The Australian situation is farcical. Really feel for the distributor down here. JJP f*cked up royally- here’s hoping they realise and correct the situation.

So true.
We are apparently the biggest buyers of pins per capita in the world and routinely get 40+ stern LE’s. 10 or so for us seems like a stitch up

#593 3 years ago
Quoted from peely:

biggest buyers of pins per capita in the world

Heard a story of DP premium @local bakery. I don’t know man maybe maybe not.

#594 3 years ago
Quoted from mslow:

Yes. We were burned. We lost a chance to secure a CE because of misleading info. And future money was lost. CEs will most likely retain or go up in value. While LE will go down in value.

Future money was lost
Imagine, no CE is reserved for Hungary.

#595 3 years ago
Quoted from Davi:

Future money was lost
Imagine, no CE is reserved for Hungary.

That is really unfortunate. Whoever the guy is in marketing at JJP.....

#596 3 years ago
Quoted from AFM95:

The one takeaway I have from reading all the GNR threads, at least I know who the GNR art snobs are.

I knew that people wasted their time repeating themselves over, and over, and over...and over again on this site. Seeing it captured like this is pretty amazing though. Nicely done, :applause:but now I wonder how much time you have on your hands to capture and post all the repeats

#597 3 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

The Australian situation is farcical. Really feel for the distributor down here. JJP f*cked up royally- here’s hoping they realise and correct the situation.

Quoted from peely:

So true.
We are apparently the biggest buyers of pins per capita in the world and routinely get 40+ stern LE’s. 10 or so for us seems like a stitch up

Man...that's really a load of bollocks if you only got 10 or so.

#598 3 years ago

If this layout has legs it would be nice to re-use it with other bands. But I'd imagine Slash wouldn't like that idea.

#599 3 years ago

so reading this if dealers were given numbers and JJP cut them then thats very bad in my view.

Neil.

#600 3 years ago

I'm one of the many was told by a very reputable distro. that I was getting a CE, until I wasn't. So I've been bummed and wrote a letter to JJP and chastised on them for cutting out the distros. I got thinking a little too much on how this might all pan out. I also was waiting years for this pin.

1. Flippers. Some might get lose. This isn't like R&M where you can't get the game at any other version or a unexpected short production run like POTC. The LE is also a great looking game and the game play is the same (Coma mode is in the LE but not the physical lock in the apron). Many of us are getting LE's and will not buy a CE second hand and not have a warranty (its not transferable). If I got a CE, I wouldn't sell it but the same would go for an LE. I think the history of the Metallica LE game would be similar, but I don't know how it played out in real time because I wasn't in the hobby then.

2. "Slumming" it with the LE. That was a joke. Not only does the LE have the same gameplay but it looks good and things can be added. The mod community is going to have a blast selling us mods for this game that will sell better than any JJP before. I fault JJP for cutting out the distros., I'm fine having money burning in my pocket for this game but JJP is not getting 3K more. I not going to wait a year another model of GNR to come out that JJP will try to use to capture this money that they left on the table. I'm also grateful that I am able to buy an LE financially when 99% of the people in this world can not or wouldn't dream of spending 10K on a game. The game you build from a LE might be really cool. For instance...The money I save I might go to a rock show (after Covid) and get the meet and greet package and have Slash sign my apron card or have a really kicking sound system upgrade.

It if sounds like I'm trying to make amends with myself for not hitting the buy button on the CE on the website because I thought JJP had a plan with their distros, you'd be correct. I've learned a lot about pinball companies this week. I just hope they keep making great games.

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