Learn to spell.

Edit: Listen fellas. I see I've gotten numerous "thumbs down". I was just responding to the original thread title of "I c*nt afford this hobby anymore". I know it was done to make everyone laugh etc. but, we've got a few ladies on this site that just might be offended by the original title.

I totally agree .

Jim

They are going to continue to do it as long as the demand is there. Obviously there are plenty of people still willing to shell out the big bucks. The only difference is they are shelling out the big bucks for an unproven game and company, instead of games like AFM or MM.

Awe, give the guy a break he only got one vowel wrong .

Jim

Yah, I do share some of the same feelings.

Regarding the spelling in the thread title, that is. You may want to change that up.

Yeah. That's a pretty epic spelling mistake in that title (and I'm certainly not talking about ridiculous).

Pinbill: If it was an honest mistake, so be it.

If not, keep the forums clean please.

I see you're giving him a pass on 'rediculous'. Very generous of you. And yeah, the high prices do stink, but what are you going to do. Pinball is a niche hobby and the prices reflect that.

er...on the keyboard those letters are not even close....

Judging by most of his posts it was not a mistake.

It does stink if you only buy NIB. However this hobby can be affordable if you broaden your search to include older pins.

+1

I was kidding !! Good heck you guys are no fun to hang with .

Jim

You dont have to get out just search out small ops in your area and work with them.
Your retired so why not get something a few years old and shop it....save $$$$.
I have gotten - RCT- E!- POTC - all from the same guy. Passed on a TSPP.

Sorry, so was I, I guess I should have used some sort of emoticon.

So now you know how to spell "ridiculous". Can you spell "can't"?

Maybe he's typing with a british accent?

Yeah prices are redickless right now.

I'd say most people aren't constantly buying NIB anyhow...even at previous NIB pricing

I was considering buying NIB only just last week.

Then I snapped out of the crazy notion. I can buy two PROVEN mid 90s Williams/Bally triple A titles for the same money.

Even at inflated prices.

Made me Look....... and Yes !! As long as Ppl are buying NIB's , The Prices Will Climb !!

J.Jack has his Followers by the Nut's , bet he could build a " Mary Poppins " Pin and sell out

Where are you hiding these deals? You holding back? BASTARD!

P.S. You should buy my pins ...

Just fixed the thread title. The funny thing is that my brain didn't even notice it.

.

In_a_jar.gif

It should be noted that you are only talking about LE titles.

The Pros haven't gone up anywhere near as much. You can get a NIB XM for $4100.00.

Not only are prices sky rocketing to prevent us mere mortals from purchasing NIB, what I also see it doing is making older machines more desirable, game condition and title dependent of course. I'd love to purchase WOZ to play but thats impossible.

Recent modern pinballs to me have TOO much going on in the PF. We live in a world full of computers, complex video games, etc, I think Pinball needs to strip itself back down to simple playfield layouts, interesting themes, with modern tech. WOZ looks flipping amazing and the hype is good to get interest in pinball to come back...but I don't think you need to load up a machine with huge LCD screens, lots of toys, videos, etc to make it compete with a computer or video game console.

What happened with the less is more approach? Why reinvent the wheel? Give me a simple (but interesting) layout, solid set of rules, good sounds, plenty of lighting to catch my eye, thats the magic of pinball right there I think.

There's stuff out there, but you have to be a bear in a tutu, dancing on a ball to get anything done.

I did try, for that one deal!

Like I said above (you must not have read it), if it was an honest mistake, no big deal. Just seems to me that given Bill's track record here it wasn't a mistake. I'm pretty thick-skinned, but i'm sure others on here, especially the women, find the word "c**t" a tad disrespectful and vulgar.

Just keep the forum clean and respectable, yeah?

_{Post edited by The_Dude_Abides : Edited to keep it respectable}

Are you a Stern employee in Pinsider's clothing?

I am content with my old games that need work. I tried buying newer games, and the fact that they didn't need complete overhauls kinda ruined it for me.

Once I've overhauled a game, I kinda have a bond with it... I don't do 'mods', so I'm not gonna get that on a NIB purchase.

When were NIB pins ever considered cheap?

Agreed. Most of the enjoyment I get is bringing an older pin up to snuff repair-wise.

While I agree nib prices are increasing, I don't see the price going much higher than it already is. I do, on the other hand, forsee used and classic games declining in price soon; maybe not the top A listers, but at least the top B games.

Again: buy the pro version instead of the LE. Simple.

Absolutley not! Just a mere mortal who dreams of buying modern NIB pinballsIf anything Stern to me is the exact reason why modern pinballs are too damn complex. I can't imagine they are too happy of JJP entering the market, thats what the industry needs again to make it fun...healthy competition and more buying choices. Hey, if games were simpler, wouldnt that make the price cheaper than the average NIB MSRP?? I don't do mods either, not a fan, its borderline re-theming a game from its original. I'm shotgunning an Embryon from the ground up on artwork and electronics, not only do I have a bond with the game from my childhood, but even more so repairing it myself, learning as I go!

Do not give him any ideas..., this could be pin #3

I think for perspective, if you look at the costs of some amusement equipment, pinball is not out of line. And if you look at the cost of a new pinball game normalized for inflation and taking into account the increases in the costs of raw materials and shipping (gas prices) over the last five years, there aren't too many surprises. The price of copper, as just one example, has doubled.

Pinball is being stretched in two directions I think: regaining viability in the location market, but likewise pleasing collectors. It's tough to please both especially when one market doesn't necessarily care about the whims of the other.

For example, when Ironman first came out it was often criticized by collectors for being too sparse. But in the last year or so, it has gained a sort of cult following for its brutal difficulty, crazy speed and simple yet addictive play. The short game times, in theory, boost revenues for operators.

STERN tried to please collectors with the costco lite versions, and everyone hated it. But the LEs are selling like hot cakes. So it isn't the manufacturers who are directing prices, it's your well-heeled fellow pinball enthusiasts.

For now, at least, it seems to work. At some point, the market may eat its fill and decide it's done spending big money on NIB games. If that happens, the mfg'ers will have to try something else.

I thought it was funny, but I'm not a prude....

We only have ourselves to blame for high pinball prices. We as collectors set the market prices with our pocketbooks. As long as the demand is there and people are willing to shell out $7K or more on a pin the prices will continue to rise. At some point though the market will be saturated with these high end collector machines and prices will have to come back down. We only have so much space and cash that we can allocate to pinball.

My guess is that once JJP is producing games and they are able to keep up with demand that Stern will drop prices into the $5K range again to pickup the lower spectrum of the collector's market .-similar to what Data East and Sega did in the 90's. I don't think there is room for two manufacturers in the $7K and up market. This may not happen for another year or two (maybe on JJP's 2nd pin?), but I think it will happen. Right now Stern is just taking advantage of being the "Only real maker of pinball machines", but once it has competition I think they will have to adjust their business strategy to remain successful.

I think it depends on how you define "this hobby."

If it's "collecting the latest full-featured games and the most sought-after machines of the last 20 years," sure, the way it is going many income levels have been priced out.

If it's "pinball," then there are many options for affordable machines that don't depreciate much and allow for active participation in the hobby with a modest initial investment. For NIB, there's the pro line.

I set a budget for the total amount I have to work with for the pins I own and once that's reached (soon), I plan to have a one-comes-in, one-goes-out approach. (Famous last words.) I rationalize it as "some guys would buy a boat, I bought into this hobby instead, with a similar investment." And, as a bonus, the pins will likely lose less value.

As long as we don't start seeing LW3s for $4000, F14s for $3000, and TAF for $20000, I think the pinball prices are....bearable. As many have said, if some people can pop $8000 for a new machine: have at it.

The thing that scares me is if those NIB prices start pushing up ALL the other prices to where new owners can't afford neither NIB nor 20-30 year old machines. That is when pinball will go from a fun hobby to an elitist's toy