Sounds like we have 2 options:

1. Get our games fast, but have a few things that need to be checked or screwed in tighter
2. Get a more quality product, but have it delayed 2 years

Hey Stern pumper.....and dumper.......seeing as though I have 3 Sterns and pre-ordered Star Trek Le, maybe I'm the only one who isn't biased here like you and Jimmy.....

And even though Jimmy hates Woz he does pump a great pin like AC/DC......

So you guys are saying it a good idea to check every bulb and run a screwdriver over evey screw before play. I got no problems with that!

lost track after all the updates...ALOT

I don't hate WOZ ,just the WOZ pumpers. SHAZZAM !!

I don't hate stern at all, some of my favourite games are sterns and my RBION's only issues have ever been a dirty opto but I have noticed when I play on location the newer sterns seem to have constant issues compared to others. I always try to put it down to bad op's but maybe they just break that often that they can't be repaired on route quickly. This is the big thing I find that contrasts between how a home user and a route player may feel about the new sterns. Yes most issues are relatively minor and easy to fix but when the pin is on route and an op doesn't know pins or doesn't care much about them they do seem to be in horrible condition fairly quickly.

Thanks for clarifying that Jimmy, just Woz pumpers, not Met! Well, you did help successfully drive out one "pumper" in Alex.....

I am just joking ICE, I don't hate anyone here on piniside ,I just dislike them.

I know what you mean, "hate" is a strong word and I actually like most people on here including you my man....

You just need to roll with the Woz excitement factor! It will die down eventually....maybe

But Stern said that's a no-no. You are not playing by the rules sir!

The AC/DC LE was my first NIB. It got many flaws and was unplayable for weeks. I was very angry about STERN. Cause many of the problems could have been very easy detected if they had tried the game only once.
But I must say, the support had been great and after I got the needed parts and dialed the game in it holds up very well. I am still angry about all the trouble, but for many of you it will be the same with WOZ or other games. I still think STERN and JJP can both avoid a lot of problems if they put more in quality controll, but in the end there will allways be problems with NIBs and important is how great they support buyers to fix these problems.
If you are going cheap with the quality you have to invest more in the support, or you will lose buyers for the future.
For me all I can say is, for know I have enough thrust in STERN and JJP to buy new games from them. And everytime I hope and cross my fingers for it that this time there will be only minor problems.

Right, I forgot, its the "next pin", whatever that might be?

Maybe Robin could add a "like and dislike" counter on each person. Now that would be interesting.

You just dislike it so much that you have to post negative comments daily

Wow, that is a perfect summary! Nailed it.

Markmon's MM was logging over 300 plays per day
At NW pin show. I would guess that game logged more plays
In 3 days than most HUO games see in an entire year.

Play before you pay gentlemen

I sample a fine cigar before buying a whole box

That's just a couple hundred bucks, couldn't imagine dropping thousands sight unseen on something so unproven.

Hope MET is awesome but if not... Oh well, I didn't buy one & still have funds for whatever comes out next if it proves to be worthy.

Till then maybe a SM, ACDC or RBION will join my lineup.

B/W games had different issues, but just as many. I have opened numerous NIB games. Back in the day B/W had terrible tech support as well.

Yeah if you buy NIB issues are to be expected regardless of the maker. It's kind of funny that some don't think Williams/Bally NIB had any problems. I am not saying that Stern's quality control couldn't be better just stating it is nothing new in the world of pinball regardless of the maker. There are a lot of things that can and do go wrong with pins regardless of whether they are new or not unfortunately. It is frustrating none the less and believe me I can feel your pain I've been there before best thing to do is work with Stern to get the issues worked out. May take a while but they do tend to follow through and help solve the problems.

I'm with Asael. I've been very impressed with the quality in LOTR, CSI and IM. But my Metallica had several obvious problems when I got it:

1. A 555 bulb in the snake flasher socket (instead of a #89)
2. Balls hanging in the Grave Marker magnet, because it wasn't level with the playfield
3. Left flipper was intermittent because the switch gap was too wide
4. Right outlane switch ghosts ball trough switches to another row
(still troubleshooting this one)

I compared the lockbar receivers between Metallica and Dirty Harry. Dirty Harry has two "Inspected By" stickers. Metallica has a sticker with Stern's 1-800 support number on it. Clearly Stern is using their customers to do QA. I don't mind making small adjustments. But I DO expect Stern to do a thorough inspection of the switches, feature lamps, flashers and major assemblies. I do this when I buy a used pin, and it takes 30 minutes, tops.

I'll still prefer Stern to B/W, because I think the build quality is fine, and I like having ready access to spare parts. But I really do wish Stern would add $25 to the price of each game, and pay someone to inspect it before it goes out. For now, I'll print out an "Inspected by swampfire" sticker and put it on the lockbar receiver, just to remind myself...

On my AC/DC, the cannon bound on the right ramp and wouldn't rotate - right out of the box. I had to drill out my right ramp assembly to just make the game playable. So much for QC.

ok but

Shoot_Again = emoticons
spfxted = .gifs

Like what ?

Excuse me. RGP was around in the 90's when bally/Williams were producing. Yes they had problems too, but after dialing them in, they were hard workers, and they stood up for the most part. Yup, there was a lot of complaints about some pins like cv and some others like NGG. I agree with your comment about Stern support. Great support. Pin quality I don't agree with. They definitely have dropped the ball on that one. I don't wish them to fail. I want to purchase a good quality pin from them. Having had a lot of good quality pins in the past I can't justify giving my hard earned money to a product I consider inferior, especially when the prices have ridden so high. I really want to by a pin. I end up walking away from my distributor very sad and frustrated.

Drill? Why did you do that? Not needed. Many of us had the exact same issue out of the box, and it was an easy fix.

Oh the horror! I don't think any of us should ever buy another Stern pin again because of this OUTRAGE!

You mean a 555 in a 906 socket, right? I mean even a blind peron would know the difference.

Really not bad. You were luck to get an early first run Pro. You are a tester for the rest of us.

Other then the right outlane (not sure I understand that one) Honestly this is normal adjusting for a new in box. Its the cosmetic damage I worry about. Stern builds these for operators so they let scratches and dings through sometimes. Did you have scratches anywhere?

If they inspect it any more then everyone will bitch "I paid 8 weeks ago and where my game!!" Quick assemble or perfect assembly. Cant always have both.

I'll opt for perfect assembly Av8 even though I know it doesn't exist

I thought part of the actual intentional gameplay on my XMen was to see how many flasher LED's I could hold on my left flipper while trying to get the glass off to pull them out? Kind of like a one man game of twister.

There are three ways people can have something and you can usually pick any two of them but never get all three of them:

1) Fast
2) Cheap
3) High Quality

Pick two and it is possible to get them . . . you can virtually never get all three.

You and I both have played this silly game I see. I thought it was just my pin spitting out LEDs every few games. Using #555 sockets in and around slings was a pretty inexcusable move IMO.

Pretty sure it is the Chinese leds, CV has 555's in the slings and they never came out on any of the 3 I owned.

Actually, as with anything in life, Its either Fast and Cheap OR its High Quality.

In my paradigm, this list is populated as such:

Fast, Cheap, Correct.

Any two exclude the third.

Fast, high quality, and not cheap.... All I can think of is a supercar. Then again those things don't exactly run maintenance free. Hmm. Tricky one!

One more fact:Stern has by far the highest price points for parts.A flipper rebuild kit for a Stern flipper is almost double the price of the B/W kit.So if it's not under warranty you're spending more to get your game back up and running.Scott

Too each their own, I am a Stern fan boy. I am also a fan boy of B/W and hopefully soon JJP. Clay and Tim can talk all day long, I respect their opinion but I will continue to purchase machines from any manufacturer that I choose.

Long live pinball

Yes, when buying a new Stern it's a VERY good idea to go over the entire playfield and make sure everything's tight. The last three new Sterns I've had my hands on had at least a couple of things that weren't fully tightened down.

If everyone's talking about LEDs falling out of sockets, that's not Stern's fault. The Chinese companies making these things make the LED wedge bases too thin compared to a glass 555. The only thing I've found that works well to keep them in place is a dab of hot glue in an inconspicuous location, between the bulb and base.

I have heard the hot glue or the like several times. But what if the LED needs replacement down the road?

You take it out and replace it... just a dab of hot glue so it won't be hard to remove the bulb if needing replacement.

does Stern supply the hot glue gun with every pin they sell? Im looking at an ACDC, very nervous now!

If your nervous about that then maybe pinball is not for your... ever try tiddly winks?

Hot glue doesn't stick perfectly to either the base or the LED bulb. You can get it back out later with minimal effort.

"Broke" seems a bit misleading btw. And LED fell out and such. Not broken.

i have one waiting at the border, will lyk how the quality is when its opened up.

tried them but they kept sticking together from the glue that was left behind

please do, is it a premium......your very close

It hasn't been said yet, but it's my understanding that Gary & Co went to suppliers and told them to cut costs to them by at least 10%, or they'll go to China for those supplies.

That money needs to come from somewhere. Suppliers cut back and make cheaper supplies to meet the demands of Stern.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

Was it really a crack team Eric? Or just the desire to play the new game without a wait in line?

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

He is my favorite Avenger.

Both.