I hope you're right.

Hope springs eternal

when I was at enchanted castle, transformers and xmen got a lot of play from the kids.. Theme has a lot to do with attraction to non-pinheads

Not gonna happen. There are occasional threads trying to show kids and women playing pinball like its some new development. But it's the exception not the rule. Kids will play pinball when there's nothing better to do. Give them am Xbox and they're not gonna play much pinball. Women generally don't like pinball. Yes there are some example of girls playing. But more of us have wife threads where they allow us to have them. Some wives limit the machine count etc. in general, the interest isn't high enough for people to be swarming into arcades to just play pinball.

That's really awesome!! Maybe pinball is very different for kids now and outside the norm.

Not only that, but i feel that operators hate pins...

most ops refuse to operate pins simply cause of they reliability. Anybody can tell you a video game is 50x more reliable than a pin.

Although, i believe these new sterns are some of the most reliable pins out there! Whitestar, and S.A.M. are some of the most bulletproof boardsets out there.

my .02 cents

I wish this were true, but it not. There is not enough profit in pinball for it to be a viable business.
I had a couple of locations with machines, it wasn't even close to worth it. Even if it makes 200 a week which believe it or not is good earnings, with the initial investment of machine,insurance, permit, time to clean out and count the money, maint. And let's not forget breakdowns, and repairs due to abuse. It's just not worth it, the money is in selling them to the collector/home market period!

Just so you know, the guy before me failed, and the guy after me failed! Also I own a profitable hvac business, so I'm familiar with how to operate a business and make a profit, not just as a hobby or for the fun of it. If you believe in it so much you should invest in it and make money at it, why share the secret with the rest of us, use the valuable information to grow pinball and make some money.

You obviously don't know how much money the PHOF in Vegas donates to charity each year.

Do the math, at .50 a play a new 8000 acdc has to be played 32,000 times before the operator will break even on the game, providing there's no maint,no breakdowns,no abuse.

The only secret is location, location, location.

Tim Arnold makes over *six figures* a year with his pinball business in Vegas.

That's bad thinking. It's true if the game becomes worth $0 the second it's out on site. But you but the game for $6500. You get $150-$200 a month for a few years. Then you sell it for $5500 when done. That's how you should look at this aspect.

I'm pretty sure .50 / 8000 is 16000. Also, the op is going to sell the machine one day and recoup some of the cost. Plus they can depreciate it on their taxes. Bottom line, the time to break even is appropriately measure in the cost of the game

yeah this comes in to it, but at the end of the day if your into siting machines to make money you'll make a bunch more by just buying some big buck hunters and redemption crap.

If you buy one we will all lobby to ban you from Pinside

Yes the phof, Disneyland, it's a specialty location that makes money, but if you recall in the 70s you could find a machine at every 7-11, diner,deli,candy store etc etc there is a reason there are pinside rs posting to find pins in the wild, the reason is there are none on location because it's not profitable, I had a b-day party yesterday for my 13 year old, 15 children from 10-14 were there, they all sat in the chill room and played Xbox360, it's the cool thing to do. I collect and wish pinball was on every corner like the old days, but it's just not ever going to happen. If not for the home collector market stern,jjp and whoever else would not make enough money to be able to stay in business.

Pinball can make a comeback, as soon as corporate America gives up on, any town USA !

Also I never said one negative thing about anybody trying to make a go of earning money with pins on location, btw its 32000 plays because you have to split the profits with the location so in order to make it work you have to make 16000 divide it with the location owner and that equals 8000. Don't forget insurance, are you going to leave your 8000 game in a location that could be robbed or burns down with no insurance, and believe me when uncle Sam finds out your operating a business he wants you to give a piece of the action(your a CPA) you should know this, obviously you work for somebody because this is how employees always think, they only see what the Boss is charging, never what the boss is paying in overhead.the gross is easy, the net is hard. I collect pinball machines, I believe in the hobby and want it to flourish, I'm not being negative I'm telling it like it is.

I would love it if you we're right but a new stern game brings in $40 a week were I'm from. I could put a cardboard box with a coin door on it and earn almost that much. I've heard WOZ is doing a ton better but I've seen mm and cc only bring in $50 on a good week. I've got three games on route and they do about $25-$45 a week. They are all maintained very well so it isn't that they are in bad shape. They are in an arcade with 20 vids that each earn 3-5x what a pin does. We have several vids that do $250/ week. A pin has never done that. I like your attitude though and I'll keep the faith. I drop a few coins in a pin anytime I see one in the wild.

Chris

I know your for real, one pin in a busy location would earn 25.00 a week, I know other operators in NYC, and at .75 cents a game they are barely earning 100.00 a week, in a fantastic location,I'm glad someone from the real world spoke up. Thanks for telling the truth.

You mean BelieBER?

My son believes in the Easter bunny.

I'm all for location pinball. Nothing would be better than it making a comeback.

well I for one hope so!!

Here is also what you need to know about pinball. A new one will cost what? $5500-7000??? You can buy a crane or prize merchandiser and make 5-10 times what the pinball makes and have zero maintanence on the crane.

Pinball still has its spot on route, but its not going to earn more than any new arcade game or redemption piece.

Its funny because when I was servicing a pinball one day, I had a guy playing it that was raving how it has to make so much money, etc.. I showed him the audits for the year it was there and then pointed to the DDR and said that made 15K the past year. I think he got the idea!!!

Brian

Pinball on route is almost dead here. The movie theaters may have 1 or 2, but the last time I saw one and played it, one flipper was broken, the other was only strong enough to hardly lift the ball to the other flipper.

The Scandia in Fairfield/Cordelia is now pinball-free. When I was young they had the BEST line up, hands down, as the years went by, the games became unplayable, and were sold off. Stopped by 3 weeks ago, and the kid at the counter said the last 3 were sold during Jan.

You can find them in some areas still, but for the most part, it is close to extinction in the wild here.

iceman is right. the math on this is twofold. first is get pins on location. second is MAINTAIN THE EFING GAMES! i have been to many locations in the last year to play pinball. most dont care at all about the games and that hurts pinball more than any thing else. the flipside to this is ops who do care. i went to a little bar and grill just the other day,thursday to be exact. that had a getaway. the game was perfect. playfield clean,all lights working,dmd bright,flippers,pops and slings sharp and crisp. everything working as it should. when getting a soda i talked to the bar keep who told me the op had been in that morning to service the game and he takes really good care of it. we need more ops like this. if the games are kept up and new people put money in and dont get ripped off they will put more money in an so on. its the ops period. they will make it or finish off location pinball. its that simple.

I think the barcades have a decent shot, as good as anybody, at bringing location pinball back. You can hold tournaments there for prizes and do all kinds of promotions. Just need good barcades and well maintained machines.

hey dsuperbee, i know a few locations in sac that have well maintained pins. let pm me if you wanna go play some pins in the wild some time.anyone else in the sacremento area i welcome too. we could make an afternoon of it and support location pinball.

Isn't on-location coin-op on the long list of "Things the Smartphone Has Killed?"

comon ben, you are gonna be one of the guys our grand kids read about in history books that saves pinball. long live the silver ball!

No, there are apps like PinballMap and PinballLocater.

I used to put classics out in the wild thAt were a pita to maintain..they really dont like being on 8+ hours a day..having better luck with newer sterns

I have a couple of machines on route in a bowling alley where almost every night is packed with league bowlers and their families...even with this amount of traffic, I barely make enough money to consider it worth it.

And this is putting B or C titles there...I would never put a NIB or A title there. With my average take it would take me over 5 Years to recoup my money on the pin.

And as some have mentioned, it really doesn't make much of a difference what title I put out there, they all make about the same amount as every other one I have put there...

In my house as long as there are video games pinball is dead

However, we have set a limit on anything that has a screen (ie tv, computer, iPod, etc) and now the kids are playing pinball. I am guessing that's true in the wild as well. Kids want to stay busy, and play with something.

Location, Location, Location. Pins suffer here cause most are in smokey bars that you have to be 21 to enter. Really not catering to the younger crowd.

I think pins will thrive in locations where they are owned and maintained by the business and are put there to enhance the atmosphere/theme. They're not going to be big money-makers, but in the right bars/restaurants they can be a big part of the vibe and set a place apart, and might even break even on their own.

Most of the "negative" posts I read are just "realistic", unfortunately.

Here is the part I don't understand...we have an industry that has been told for 50 years by operators that they need a product that is relatively service free. Why can't the industry listen and change? Is it impossible to build parts that can last? Flipper mechs, pop bumpers, etc. have remained mechanically unchanged for 50 years. Can't the industry think differently and build a tank the industry demands?

If I were an operator, I wouldn't accept a product that (according to posts on this forum) rarely works properly out of the box. I wouldn't buy a product that ships incomplete. I wouldn't buy a product that requires the amount of service required to keep them working. Why would you, when you can buy a competing product that works, requires almost no service, and makes more money?

Everyone blames the operator. Why are we not blaming the industry for decades of "it's good enough"? They have been the problem.

In my opinion new machines need to be better built than they have ever been built if we want pinball to survive. We need machines that on average needs a 5000 mile oil change, tires at 50,000 miles, and wheel bearings at 100,000 miles.

Personally, I hope you are right about pins on location. But having tried my
hand at this for a few years (as a hobby business), my opinion is its a nice
dream. The problem isn't finding players either. The issues are many, but
primarily; cities don't want arcades or pins/vids as they are seen as
attracting the wrong crowd, ops need liability insurance, licensing fees, poor
quality & cost of newer pins and cost of servicing.
Steve