(Topic ID: 269661)

I believe I’ve made a terrible mistake.


By Mistermoberg

37 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 48 posts
  • 25 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 days ago by wdennie
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

  • Hook Data East, 1992
#1 37 days ago

So - I’ve got a Data East Hook that survived some sort of major water incident - it was in a flood of some sort.

The volume control was rusted shut...it’s the long metal knob one on the right side next to the service outlet.

It’s no longer rusted shut - I used WD-40. I know - it was probably stupid.

I also got a little warm zap when my finger accidentally went under the metal box - it wasn’t crazy or anything. The game was off but plugged in - now unplugged.

How bad did I mess up? Do I need to tear this area to clean it? The WD-40 doesn’t seem to have gotten on the service outlet or it’s components, but maybe on the volume knob wiring. How do I do it safely?

Thanks.

#2 37 days ago
Quoted from Mistermoberg:

volume control was rusted shut

???? You should never use wd-40 on or near your pinball machine with exception only to the leg bolts, maybe. Replace the rusty components. Wipe up any extra WD-40 before you turn the game on again & probably should keep it off for a bit...

#3 37 days ago
Quoted from Tomahawkjim:

???? You should never use wd-40 on or near your pinball machine with exception only to the leg bolts, maybe. Replace the rusty components. Wipe up any extra WD-40 before you turn the game on again & probably should keep it off for a bit...

I know - it was an impulse. I’m gonna leave it off and unplugged for at least 48 hours.

#4 37 days ago

Also - is 48 hours enough? Should I spray rubbing alcohol in the area?

#5 37 days ago

It’s nothing to worry about long term. There are no sparks in that area to possibly start a fire.

Air it out with a small fan for a few hours and you’ll be ok. If you smell the WD strongly after that try some isopropyl alcohol 95% or greater. Rubbing alcohol is only about 70% IIRC. The rest of it is water.

#6 37 days ago

There's probably a slurry of WD-40 and corroded material inside the potentiometer. You'll need to take apart the can to clean it properly.

Also, wash off all the PCBs. There's no telling what sort of contaminants were left behind that might short things out. Once they are clean and dry, only then attempt to boot them, preferably first on the bench, rather than in-game.

The game itself is probably going to need a lot more cleaning before I'd even attempt applying or turning on power.

#7 37 days ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

There's probably a slurry of WD-40 and corroded material inside the potentiometer. You'll need to take apart the can to clean it properly.
Also, wash off all the PCBs. There's no telling what sort of contaminants were left behind that might short things out. Once they are clean and dry, only then attempt to boot them, preferably first on the bench, rather than in-game.
The game itself is probably going to need a lot more cleaning before I'd even attempt applying or turning on power.

Thanks ForceFlow. I’ve just cleaned it off with alcohol and a papertowel. Not fine cleansing, but I sprayed the outside casing down and down the volume control. I’ll probably do it a second time tomorrow. And leave the game off until Sunday or Monday.

As for booting - it does. No errors with LEDs on boards, display is okay. Coins up even. However, the sound was *loud*. How I discovered this problem.

I’m presently cleaning the light boards, every mech is rusted shut - that’s the real challenge here. Bottom of cabinet is badly warped, will have to replace at some point. Transformer is quite rusty also - I’ve never tinkered with one before though. I think I will leave it alone.

To anyone else, I think this would be a parts game - and even then, not much to take. I happened to have collected a ton of cheap bad Data East boards from Allentown that were saveable - why I’m giving this a go.

12
#8 37 days ago

There's $ 20 in it for you if you hold a golf club and stick your finger under the metal box again while recording it. It's a slow day here... : )

#9 37 days ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

There's $ 20 in it for you if you hold a golf club and stick your finger under the metal box again while recording it. It's a slow day here... : )

Make it $40, I'm down to throw in $20.

#10 37 days ago
Quoted from Coindork:

Make it $40, I'm down to throw in $20.

Well - I am a cheap date.

#11 37 days ago

Does the game have a ground prong on the plug(3 prongs)? If not that’s probably why you got zapped.

#12 37 days ago
Quoted from Mistermoberg:

So - I’ve got a Data East Hook that survived some sort of major water incident - it was in a flood of some sort.
The volume control was rusted shut...it’s the long metal knob one on the right side next to the service outlet.
It’s no longer rusted shut - I used WD-40. I know - it was probably stupid.
I also got a little warm zap when my finger accidentally went under the metal box - it wasn’t crazy or anything. The game was off but plugged in - now unplugged.
How bad did I mess up? Do I need to tear this area to clean it? The WD-40 doesn’t seem to have gotten on the service outlet or it’s components, but maybe on the volume knob wiring. How do I do it safely?
Thanks.

If you sprayed wd40 into the volume pot its probably shot now if it wasnt already from the rust. You can take it apart (if possible) and try and clean it up. WD40 turns sticky and gunky and will foul up the volume pot. I don't think there is anything in pinball WD40 is good for. Maybe stuck leg levelers....

Did you experience a static discharge or did you get a tingle from current flowing? All exposed metal is typically earth grounded in pinball. ESD discharge assuming the game was plugged in and you touched exposed metal probably just discharged to ground and not hurt anything. Capacitors can hold a charge after the game is off and can give you a tickle if you touch the right thing. Should not damage anything.

A static discharge into the circuit board can be a bit more serious but hard to predict. After ESD event can have latent failure (works now, dies later), immediate failure, or works fine forever are possible scenarios. This winter I was sitting at the bench, stood up and walked over to a test fixture. Touched the MPU test button and drew an ESD arc. CPU locked up. Powered down and reboot and all was fine. Now that board was suspect so I put it into one of my own games and it has been fine since. So hard to predict.

Clean or replace the volume pot and see where you are.

#13 37 days ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

It’s nothing to worry about long term. There are no sparks in that area to possibly start a fire.
Air it out with a small fan for a few hours and you’ll be ok. If you smell the WD strongly after that try some isopropyl alcohol 95% or greater. Rubbing alcohol is only about 70% IIRC. The rest of it is water.

Yeah I’m inclined to think this was just a minor scrape with hanger steak, not a full on USDA beef. Game will probably be ok. Air it out, if you are worried, take it apart and clean it. And stop doing dumb things you know you aren’t supposed to do!!

#14 37 days ago

I was in TV repair for 34yrs. WD40 is ok for cleaning controls. Better than most sprays. They had many sprays just made for cleaning controls and tuners in the old days, then some safetycrat made illegal the propellant, then after that the "safe" formula would melt plastic and ruin everything. WD40 never hurts anything. It's not flammable unless you hold a torch to it as you spray. Just my opinion after using it 1000s of times. Others may have differing opinions, mostly from reading fables.

#15 37 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

minor scrape with hanger steak, not a full on USDA beef.

Wouldn’t have been shocked if he had ground beef.

#16 37 days ago
Quoted from Ronkz650:

WD40 never hurts anything.

Spray some on your playfield and report back.

#17 37 days ago
Quoted from Ronkz650:

I was in TV repair for 34yrs. WD40 is ok for cleaning controls. Better than most sprays. They had many sprays just made for cleaning controls and tuners in the old days, then some safetycrat made illegal the propellant, then after that the "safe" formula would melt plastic and ruin everything. WD40 never hurts anything. It's not flammable unless you hold a torch to it as you spray. Just my opinion after using it 1000s of times. Others may have differing opinions, mostly from reading fables.

Spray some wd-40 and then let the solvents evaporate. You are left with a gummy viscous film that attracts dust and grit. truth

#19 36 days ago

Never use WD-40 in a game, not only because they cause crud, but also just because it's so damn susceptible for catching on fire.

The spare you're probably feeling is because your hand glanced over the main fuse. I was wiring a new pot into my DE game recently and forgot to unplug it. Got a little bite when my hand got too close to that main fuse (I'm lucky, I know).

If your game was in a flood though... I can imagine you've got bigger fish to fry than a dirty pot...

#20 36 days ago
Quoted from radial_head:

If your game was in a flood though...

Pinballz Arcade has (or had) an Iron Man on location that had been in a flood. Billy never could get it working reliably.

#21 36 days ago

I think your biggest mistake is spending any appreciable amount of time on Hook.

It looks all flowly and cool with the big spiral ramp, but boy is it a dog.

But as they say, I guess there's an ass for every seat...good luck.

#22 36 days ago
Quoted from Tomahawkjim:

???? You should never use wd-40 on or near your pinball machine with exception only to the leg bolts, maybe. Replace the rusty components. Wipe up any extra WD-40 before you turn the game on again & probably should keep it off for a bit...

Just read on the AC/DC thread someone using WD-40 on the ramps. Personally I would think this would get all over the balls and then all over the playfield, etc.

#23 36 days ago
Quoted from pinballjah:

Just read on the AC/DC thread someone using WD-40 on the ramps. Personally I would think this would get all over the balls and then all over the playfield, etc.

It absolutely would.

Its a water displacer (hence the "WD"), essentially a tacky mineral oil suspended in a light volatile, best used on old automotive distributors when water gets splashed on it from offroading, etc.

Friends that own body shops do not allow it (or any product containing silicone for that matter) on premise because of the havoc it can create when painting (fisheye like crazy...) or on certain electronic components.

#24 36 days ago
Quoted from Grandnational007:

I think your biggest mistake is spending any appreciable amount of time on Hook.
It looks all flowly and cool with the big spiral ramp, but boy is it a dog.
But as they say, I guess there's an ass for every seat...good luck.

I can agree with that to a point. I’ll probably be in this for 200-300 hours when it’s done, and it’s still gonna look awful - I don’t think anyone would ever buy it from me when done.

Most plastics are broken including the ramps, the side art is basically gone, and there’s no way to ever make this game look acceptable.

Trying to keep parts cost to an absolute minimum. With quarantine, I have nothing better to work on.

I tried removing the volume control again today, it is still not going anywhere. In retrospect, a small amount of WD-40 may have been my only option in this case.

I cleaned it again today, with a light misting of rubbing alcohol. Will still leave the game off for another day or two.

#25 36 days ago
Quoted from Mistermoberg:

I can agree with that to a point. I’ll probably be in this for 200-300 hours when it’s done, and it’s still gonna look awful - I don’t think anyone would ever buy it from me when done.
Most plastics are broken including the ramps, the side art is basically gone, and there’s no way to ever make this game look acceptable.
Trying to keep parts cost to an absolute minimum. With quarantine, I have nothing better to work on.
I tried removing the volume control again today, it is still not going anywhere. In retrospect, a small amount of WD-40 may have been my only option in this case.
I cleaned it again today, with a light misting of rubbing alcohol. Will still leave the game off for another day or two.

At some point in every bottom feeding pinhead's life, he or she must ask the question: Is this worth it?

I have no idea what you paid for Hook (a terrible game) that clearly spent some time underwater. Even if it were free, I probably wouldn't take it, but I've had 20 years to figure out what's worth my time and what isn't.

Good luck on your journey my friend!

#26 36 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

At some point in every bottom feeding pinhead's life, he or she must ask the question: Is this worth it?
I have no idea what you paid for Hook (a terrible game) that clearly spent some time underwater. Even if it were free, I probably wouldn't take it, but I've had 20 years to figure out what's worth my time and what isn't.
Good luck on your journey my friend!

If I was quarantined or out of work (which I'm not) I'd probably take on just about any garbage project, assuming I'm caught up on my own projects (which I'm not). I get a kick out of making things nicer than they should be on games people don't like. It's also a great opportunity to learn some stuff you might be otherwise nervous to do on an expensive game. Can you really put circuit boards in the dishwasher? (you can) Try some board repairs you may not feel confident on, touchup paint, etc.

Post a restoration thread!

#27 36 days ago
Quoted from Grandnational007:

It absolutely would.
Its a water displacer (hence the "WD"), essentially a tacky mineral oil suspended in a light volatile, best used on old automotive distributors when water gets splashed on it from offroading, etc.
Friends that own body shops do not allow it (or any product containing silicone for that matter) on premise because of the havoc it can create when painting (fisheye like crazy...) or on certain electronic components.

Beat me to it. WD40 really isn't intended to be a lubricant, although most people use it as such. That stuff works great at my RC boat races when we dunk the boat though. We spray them with WD40 to help save them from damage.

#28 36 days ago
Quoted from Shredso:

It's also a great opportunity to learn some stuff you might be otherwise nervous to do on an expensive game. Can you really put circuit boards in the dishwasher? (you can) Try some board repairs you may not feel confident on, touchup paint, etc.
Post a restoration thread!

While true, me personally, I'd wash the boards, reflow/recap if needed, etc, and sell the boards out of it, keep them as trade fodder, or keep them as spares.

I'd part that thing like the Red Sea, haha.

Not all games are worth saving, even with the knowhow and ability to do such.

#29 36 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Even if it were free, I probably wouldn't take it, but I've had 20 years to figure out what's worth my time and what isn't.
Good luck on your journey my friend!

I would take any pin for free, parts pins are really nice to have if you have room to store them.

#30 36 days ago

The brevity of trying to save the game hit me today. I had the metal pole piece of the drop target mech fall apart in my hand, snapped in half.

Saving this game might be impossible.

The boards are ugly and I don’t think anyone would buy them.

I’m just an idiot kid with a dream.

Levi called me a pinball bottom feeder - this one was basically a dumpster dive, and I’ve gone too far.

#31 36 days ago
Quoted from Mistermoberg:

I’m just an idiot kid with a dream.

In your defense man you sprayed an already messed up volume pot with it and it freed up....

ronkz650 mentioned it’s ok to use to clean controls, which it is.

But people hear ....WD-40 ....and automatically that means you get treated like you bought a NIB Attack from Mars, opened it up, immediately bathed the playfield in a heavy tidal wave and then emptied 3 cans inside of every single coil sleeve and soaked every single mech in it and then cut open another can of WD-40 to dip the balls in and put them back in the game as quick as possible so little would have a chance to drip off.

Did you stand 6 ft away and spray it until you got an even stream on the problem spot? I doubt it. I bet you gently foamed some out on the area where the dial meets the casing, then wiped up the excess, let it sit a minute then exercised it until it freed up.

I’m with shredso take this opportunity to learn

#32 36 days ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

In your defense man you sprayed an already messed up volume pot with it and it freed up....
ronkz650 mentioned it’s ok to use to clean controls, which it is.
But people hear ....WD-40 ....and automatically that means you get treated like you bought a NIB Attack from Mars, opened it up, immediately bathed the playfield in a heavy tidal wave and then emptied 3 cans inside of every single coil sleeve and soaked every single mech in it and then cut open another can of WD-40 to dip the balls in and put them back in the game as quick as possible so little would have a chance to drip off.
Did you stand 6 ft away and spray it until you got an even stream on the problem spot? I doubt it. I bet you gently foamed some out on the area where the dial meets the casing, then wiped up the excess, let it sit a minute then exercised it until it freed up.
I’m with shredso take this opportunity to learn

You got a great sense of humor! Yeah, it was nerve wracking, didn’t know what else to do. I used the red nozzle extension and carefully let it foam and drip out of it, yes.

#33 36 days ago

It's a volume pot, don't worry about it. If the WD 40 worked, great! If not replace the pot as it'sonly a few $$

I worked for a "legendary" recording console manufacturer back in the early 90's, and we used a chain lube to free up grungy pots (that were like that new).

#34 36 days ago

I like most chain lubes a lot better than I like WD-40.

#35 36 days ago

How do we feel about 3 in 1 oil?

I’ve used it on a precious few EM things. Also quieter up my bathroom door.

#36 36 days ago
Quoted from Mistermoberg:

I can agree with that to a point. I’ll probably be in this for 200-300 hours when it’s done, and it’s still gonna look awful - I don’t think anyone would ever buy it from me when done.
Most plastics are broken including the ramps, the side art is basically gone, and there’s no way to ever make this game look acceptable.
Trying to keep parts cost to an absolute minimum. With quarantine, I have nothing better to work on.
I tried removing the volume control again today, it is still not going anywhere. In retrospect, a small amount of WD-40 may have been my only option in this case.
I cleaned it again today, with a light misting of rubbing alcohol. Will still leave the game off for another day or two.

200-300 hours? I only put 20-30 hours into a complete tear down, clearcoating the playfield, ultrasonicing plastics and mechs, polishing all the parts on a buffing wheel and reassembling.

You literally building every part from scratch?

#37 36 days ago

Not a terrible mistake....just another learning experience...

#38 36 days ago
Quoted from Djshakes:

200-300 hours? I only put 20-30 hours into a complete tear down, clearcoating the playfield, ultrasonicing plastics and mechs, polishing all the parts on a buffing wheel and reassembling.
You literally building every part from scratch?

You work quick. I like to take it all in. Plus - I’m facing a lot of challenges with this one and relatively new at this.

#39 36 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

At some point in every bottom feeding pinhead's life, he or she must ask the question: Is this worth it?
I have no idea what you paid for Hook (a terrible game) that clearly spent some time underwater. Even if it were free, I probably wouldn't take it, but I've had 20 years to figure out what's worth my time and what isn't.
Good luck on your journey my friend!

It pains me to do so, but I’ve got to agree with a few in this thread, including Moberg.
I bought a pinball machine for $10 and it looks like shit. It’s a Ro Go, and it sat out on a porch for 20 years. It had eggs and corncobs in it when I picked it up. Maybe it’s too far gone, but I’ll literally never turn down a $10 pinball machine.

If I’m bored or I just want something different to tinker with, I’ve got this in the back room just hanging out.

Remember that House of the Dead 2 I saved from the dumpster in VT a few months ago? My buddy and I just got it fired up and playing 100%
All it needed was new thermal paste, and it sat outside in our nasty Northeastern winter for 5 months. I truly have no clue how that PC isn’t completely cooked, but it plays great and everyone else passed it up. Took me maybe an hour to track down the issue and now I’ve got a FREE HOTD2.

#40 36 days ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

It pains me to do so, but I’ve got to agree with a few in this thread, including Moberg.
I bought a pinball machine for $10 and it looks like shit. It’s a Ro Go, and it sat out on a porch for 20 years. It had eggs and corncobs in it when I picked it up. Maybe it’s too far gone, but I’ll literally never turn down a $10 pinball machine.
If I’m bored or I just want something different to tinker with, I’ve got this in the back room just hanging out.
Remember that House of the Dead 2 I saved from the dumpster in VT a few months ago? My buddy and I just got it fired up and playing 100%
All it needed was new thermal paste, and it sat outside in our nasty Northeastern winter for 5 months. I truly have no clue how that PC isn’t completely cooked, but it plays great and everyone else passed it up. Took me maybe an hour to track down the issue and now I’ve got a FREE HOTD2.

It hurts to agree with Moberg, I know.

I’d have grabbed that $10 Ro Go too.

Congrats on your free game man, that’s amazing man.

#41 36 days ago
Quoted from Mistermoberg:

It hurts to agree with Moberg, I know.
I’d have grabbed that $10 Ro Go too.
Congrats on your free game man, that’s amazing man.

Disagreeing with Levi is the most painful thing I’ve had to do during quarantine.

Also, mistermoberg in case you missed Todd’s best offer sale, he mentioned that the back right ramp on Monday Night Football is actually identical to Hook, except the MNF ramp was reinforced with steel, and the Hook ramp wasn’t. Which makes no sense since Hook came later so they almost went backwards in terms of quality.

You can score the MNF ramp for $80 or less, and mod it slightly for Hook and that sucker will NEVER break again.
Good Luck!

#42 36 days ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

I bought a pinball machine for $10 and it looks like shit. It’s a Ro Go,

Any spiders in that one?

#43 36 days ago
Quoted from woz:

It's a volume pot, don't worry about it. If the WD 40 worked, great! If not replace the pot as it'sonly a few $$
I worked for a "legendary" recording console manufacturer back in the early 90's, and we used a chain lube to free up grungy pots (that were like that new).

Deoxit D5 works great as well.

#44 35 days ago
Quoted from chad:

Deoxit D5 works great as well.

For pots and switches, I'd use DeoxIT® Fader F-Series.

https://caig.com/fader-f-series/

#45 35 days ago
Quoted from woz:

For pots and switches, I'd use DeoxIT® Fader F-Series.
https://caig.com/fader-f-series/

Thsnks , had not heard of this.

#46 35 days ago
Quoted from woz:

For pots and switches, I'd use DeoxIT® Fader F-Series.
https://caig.com/fader-f-series/

Do you just squirt it down the shaft of the pot ?
I have a beautiful 1978 Toshiba Music Centre stereo and the pots on that need a good cleaning.

3 weeks later
#47 10 days ago

If anyone cares, my terrible mistake has now moved here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/weird-issue-with-data-east-hook

#48 9 days ago

WD40 never hurts anything. It's not flammable unless you hold a torch to it as you spray. Just my opinion after using it 1000s of times. Others may have differing opinions, mostly from reading fables.

Wow this is so wrong, just a spark from coil EOS switch will ignite it.
learned from newbe experience.

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