Haha I was thinking the same thing

Just ignore him and the problem will go away.

That said, this might be a lesson about taking an extra 30 minutes to clean up a pin before selling it to someone else. If I'm being sold a working pin with no issues, I usually assume that to mean: "relatively clean, but there are probably some minor things I didn't notice or want to tell you about". If the pin was dirty like what I see in your pics, it would probably start me down a path of nitpicking things that might not have bothered me otherwise.

That said...you sent him pics and he declined video communication.

I don't know if this has been said, but this is a small claims civil suit at best. He needs to go to what ever district court you live in.He has to file suit in that court and then show up in that court. Most small claims limit at 5000.00. I would not contact the buyer any further.

"Sue me. See you in court."
That would be my response and you'll most likely never hear anything again.

Obviously the machine you sold is the one delivered. If something happened in shipping [broken diode, etc] that's not your concern. You have photos of it leaving, working as described.
You're not a retailer that has a reputation to protect. You're not a member of the BBB.

Some people, huh? I've sold games to other pinsiders and just recently a JM to a fellow pinsider. A connector for the high voltage came loose in shipping and he would tell you I went out of my way to get it going again and figuring out the issue. The reason is because of the way he approached me with the problem. It wasn't accusatory - it was "hey - there's a problem - you have any idea what might have happened?".

This guy is a douche.

Tell him to enjoy his new machine, and If he is not happy to sell it to someone else, there are plenty that would buy it..

Would love to see how he is going to sue you over a private sale..

End the email with buh-bye!

You have to be the happiest man on the planet right now.

Had you taken Paypal, you would have already lost the game AND the money....

If paid Paypal friends / family type it the money would still be gone as vid said. Paypal is not safe at all! Vid has a guide about it. Be thankful he screwed up paypal!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-not-get-ripped-off-in-pinball-vids-guide

Flipper rubbers obviously haven't been replaced and the right flipper bat is filthy. Cleaning the flipper bats and installing new flipper rubbers is the cheapest and easiest way to improve the appearance (value) of a game. Game should never been offered for sale until those two things were done. The alligator clips on the battery pack are wrong on a couple of levels. The area around the thing saucer is dirty. Despite these things, you strapped on hundreds of dollars of mods? That makes no sense.

Seller and buyer both made mistakes.

Yup, when you sell a game and you say it's has been cleaned that means it has to be "clean" inside and out. So I hope you don't make that mistake again. I bought a couple of games and the owner said it was cleaned and sure enough the pf top side and cab outside were clean but when I lifted the pf the inside was not even touched. Took me about an hour to clean the inside of each. Having said all this the buyer doesn't have a leg to stand on.

To me, mods imply a very clean and well maintained machine since it's hard to imagine someone dropping new money to improve a machine cosmetically when simply cleaning it is free and often more effective. That said, now that I've been at this for a while I've seen all sorts of weird things (and not that this is the case here, but it does seem that modding a dirty/poorly kept machine is a relatively recent phenomenon).

Frankly, this is why I HATE selling machines, and I always try to take a million high res pictures, describe every tiny little flaw, and underprice as much as I can stomach. On the other end, I always prefer to buy my machines either off route or dirty since I will know to have zero expectations. Buyers remorse is a terrible feeling.

I'd always rather have a very clean machine than a ton of mods. Stripping a TAF for a full shop looks like a pain. Maybe he should sell off the mods, then his price would be better and he might be happier. This is the great mystery of expensive pins and pricing. Everyone has an opinion about what a gorgeous example should go for, but how much less something that's slightly less should be is a serious point of contention.

You are VERY lucky though: you just shipped a pin with alligator clips in the head --so lucky that one didn't pop off in transit and fry something when he powered it on...

Take the return. He pays shipping plus 15% restocking fee for you. Resell it. Win.

As others have said, ignore the idiot. He has no grounds for a lawsuit.

^^This^^

In my day job, I get asshats from time to time threatening to "take legal action" against me when I have in fact done nothing wrong. My response is always the same. I politely tell them to take whatever action they deem necessary and to make sure any future correspondence be funneled through our respective lawyers. I then accept no further calls, emails, etc on the matter. I suggest you do the same, and not lose a moments rest over the situation.

Better call Saul

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I don't know why anyone would pay $5500 for a game in that condition, especially a first time buyer. Take that money and go buy a NIB Stern instead is what I would have said to the buyer.

You have no obligation to take the game back, but selling a dirty unshopped pin to a first time buyer is just asking for trouble.

Rob

Here is my take. Your ad has several red flags. Once people start doing their "math" about how old the game is and how long it's been sitting untouched, it sets an expectation of quality. I've seen games routed for a year that look like they've been routed 10 and vice versa.

The way you wired the battery holder was completely irresponsible and shows you have a low level of technical pinball ability. It's okay that you do, until you start doing strange things and then charging people for them, like you did here.

Why did you add so many mods to a game you were just going to flip? You are saying that he got a good value based on some BS retail quote, we all know why you did it. The mods were the reason you were able to get top top dollar, in your opinion you made more money with them as opposed to without them. You are acting like you did him some kind of favor they are there.

With that being said, while this is a case of buyers remorse, he saw some screwy stuff that he paid top dollar for and got pissed. Thing came out covered in crap, he saw that BS battery holder, and others have pointed out a mediocre shop job and I think he has the right to be pissed.

That's what happens when you shoot for the moon and get it. You know it was his first purchase, he paid retail, and got a dirty machine with a meh shop job and a few toys in it.

I would send him something like $500, but I never would have asked what you did for the machine to begin with.

For me, no amount of money is worth trouble, and I price my games accordingly.

and don't forget lost opportunity of sale!(while in his possession) you don't seem to be a scammer and you do seem concerned. he got a fair deal and needs to accept it. and you need not lose anymore sleep put this thing to bed. and move on. have a great holiday and new year.
PS:isn't the fact that the game is now in CANADA the value has increased? i am sure he could flip it for a nice profit.

I would have soaked Things hand in Palmolive dishwashing liquid.

Nah, there are cheaper TAF in Canada than what he paid. Exchange rate now is brutal.

The ones kicking and screaming about suing are the least likely to do so. It's the ones who keep silent that end up trying to stick it to/in you the hardest.

I agree. Ed

Me too, I'm sure the fix is nothing that a decent tech can handle.

Let me know where. Toronto Pinball market sucks. There is only Playdium and some guy in Woodbridge with horrible customer service.

Which Guy in woodbrigde are you talking about? I recently delt with a guy from woodbridge and would say the same!

I'm sure you've learned your lesson by now, but for future reference to you and others, when I recently sold a pin to be shipped 1500 miles away without being inspected first, I sent this message to the buyer to which he accepted the simple but legal description:

"I guess I should make a legal statement just to protect my butt and yours, since we don't know each other, and I believe your trustworthy and honest but it is being shipped which can bring up problems:"

"The pinball machine named "------" is being sold "as-is where-is" with no warranty expressed or implied to ------- by Ron------. Full payment of $----.00 has been received pending clearance of check #----. The game works 100% and will be in the same condition as the finished pictures you viewed when picked up. Once the shipper picks up the pinball machine named "-----", it's out of my care and I have no more responsibility and cannot be held liable for damage caused during shipping. I will store the game in my home until you arrange pick-up with a shipper at no additional charge. The full payment of $----.00 is non-refundable in case you change your mind for whatever reason. If any damage occurs to "-----" while in my care, I will promptly notify you and figure out a resolution."

"If these terms are acceptable to you, just send a reply message stating so. If not, I can send your check back to you."

I don't know the letter of the law, but I felt this was enough to protect my ass in case anything did arise with the buyer, or at least I tried in case of a problem.

Totally agree - this will start most people down the path of dissatisfaction. Save yourself the potential hassle and re-clean the game before packing it. When you sell something this expensive, people expect less dirt.

With that statement, technically under the UCC, you have transfered ownership via shipping point...a sort of bill of lading. Smart move.

Tell the buyer you will send Fredo and Moe Greene after him if he doesn't like the pin deal.
Vito might leave a dead horse in his bed.
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Father Guido Sarducci might break his legs.
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Really well said. That game is filthy. Rather than installing all those mods you should have rebuilt the flippers, cleaned the flipper bats and rest of the game etc. You got top dollar here and really won out on this deal. I would never pay $5500 for a game in that condition. The EOS error is not caused by shipping. It's because the flippers are old, filthy, worn out and you didn't rebuild them or fix them up at all. Shameful.

But that's all irrelevant. The guy paid bank transfer and the deal is done. I'd probably tell him I want to help him but because he cried lawyer I had to hire my own lawyer and my lawyer is advising me to break off all communications.

You should be free to do what you want since its a wire transfer, but You really should consider kicking back some money. The wear in the mansion is not cool. It was easily visible to you and you made no attempt to disclose it.

I would say offer him $250 to go towards shopping it out. If that's not good enough for him, tell him you will put up a fs listing and offer to help him sell it.

Not interested in buying nor helping this guy but am interested in where abouts he lives up here...

Rod

Flash (great ngg decals btw) and spinball, never ever buy used machines from sb/ps (only new stern's or jjps's), those douches in w/bridge, nor the ones in ottawa that run the "going out of biz sale" continuously on kijiji.

Only storefront I had luck w was when I kicked off the gameroom thing w my Tron upright from DC Amusements must be back in 2000 or so.

Things may have changed since but back then i thought Danny was pretty straight up. Bought roms from Dave Astill, but heard ok things about him too.

I've just started floating more above the radar, there's more like me I know and games usually pass unannounced....

Rod

The wide range of responses to this thread really underscores why I hate buying and selling pins. I'd love to be selling to those who think this guy got a fine deal and has no reason to be dissapointed, and buy from those people who know that this machine should have been (at a minimum) cleaner before selling it for this price.

the prob as i see it is you have a glass is 1/2 full sort dealing with a glass is 1/2 empty sort, and the money traded and game shipped befor everyone seen the glass, or the movers got thirsty?

the lessen learned is go look at a game in person, pay cash, and haul it your self so there is less people to blame.

imo- once the shipper is involved, its game over for the seller.

Be extra careful, make an empty threat to the wrong guy, he might decide to respond.

I couldn't agree more with this. I would also add that when you buy sight unseen, the game rarely lives up to what your imagined expectations are for it. In my experience, its always a let down when the game arrives. That's just the nature of the beast your dealing with here and you either have the belly for it or you don't. Maybe he just doesn't have the belly for remote purchases of routed pins.

Yes! Very smart. I shipped a game to Canada. First time ever shipping or dealing with someone not local. Luckily the buyer was easy to work with and had shipped before. I made sure to take lots of pics and have multiple phone calls. Also the Bill of Lading/sale was required to get it through customs. So it worked well. It worked out well for that one, and I'm very happy and lucky. I was kind of hesitant at first. I hope you get this sorted out.

Mods and time spend = zero value to a game.......try trading in a car with aftermarket mods. I can go to the junkyard and spend $800 on crap, screw it onto the car, say I want 800 more, and they will laugh. No different with pins.... adding action figures and trinkets does nothing overall (even though many here think so). Like putting lipstick on a pig...its still a pig

That being said........ tell the guy to go away because the deal is done. He's spouting off to scare you into refunding him. Telling you he found a better machine was the icing on the cake

This guy had this pin listed on our local Craigslist and obviously couldn't sell it locally. The ad was up for quite awile before it sold. Being able to see a game in person changes everything. People probably looked at it and saw the poor condition and passed on it. This is why I will never ship a pin. Just too much risk.

I simply don't ship, and like the Shepherd title "In God We Trust - All Others Pay Cash".

I've refused and still got what I needed for the games from others.

When I sold my LOTR from what I remember the buyer asked for shipping I said forget it.

He drove NON-STOP from the East Coast.

He saw the quality of my games, said he'd gladly do the drive again, and became a contact I'd hit first should I sell another and probably not have to post in a FS, so win / win.

Dude claimed he was going to make the trip back non-stop too.

Now that I think about it he sure was a bit twitchy...

-Rod

I watched this machine sit FS on local CraigsList for awhile, was wondering who would pickup the "barn find"... Didn't think it would turn out like this!

If he's on pinside he could resort to extortion as well, hopefully that doesn't happen.

After re-reading this, this is a HUGE red flag.

You claim you put the decal on the box, but forgot to clean the absolutely filthy thing hand? You admit to that.

You know what that means, right? That you either didn't, or did a really bad job play testing the game after you shopped it. Had you played a game or two, you would have noticed you forgot to clean the thing hand.

Did you even test the thing after you finished shopping it? And if you did, how could you "forget" because you would have noticed the first game you played.

When flipping a game like that, you should have put 20 or 30 games on it minimum before you sold it, especially for shipping and especially since you knew it was the guys first machine.

The number of people on here saying "screw that buyer he gets what he gets" are seriously making me think about whether I want to ship a game at all anymore, particularly from people on Pinside.

Is it just me or is "barn find" an absolutely horrible thing to put in a "for sale" ad?

For $5500 maybe you should have cleaned it up a little better. Might have saved you all this headache.

Maybe so. But we all know that the buyer is being unreasonable, simple as that. The worm seems to have turned on this thread but it's simply unrealistic for the buyer to expect that this seller will take the game back, plus pay shipping and taxes. Never in a million years will that happen and threatening legal action is ridiculous.

Did the seller learn a lesson? Maybe. The buyer surely did. Dude should suck it up, stop whining, and just clean the thing up, that's a pretty nice Addams. He's obviously not afraid to get into the game (as evidenced by the pictures). In an hour he could have this thing cleaned up pretty nicely.

Just because the seller went a little off the deep end, it doesn't mean he's wrong. Of course he doesn't deserve a full refund, but this kinda reeks.

What ever happened to being fair and compromises. The buyer is immature, he's not going to sue, it was dumb to say that, but that doesn't make it right to screw him either.

In the original post the seller states that the rubbers were in bad shape and that he replaced the rubbers as the first thing on the list. But in one photo it was clear that the main flipper rubbers had not been replaced. So either he was referring to other rubbers on the game or he forgot about those two. But in either case that alone is not difficult or expensive. As somebody else stated, what needed to be done was a complete rebuild of the flipper assembly.