Not much money for someone's integrity.

LTG

And i appreciate that word to no end When you work with Honest people that relationship is worth more than a few extra bucks in my opinion.

What I'm saying is that when money changes hands it goes from a promise to a deal. I'm not saying it's right, but until you pay, they don't owe you anything. Unless you can prove you acted on their promise and incurred losses because of that, but now we're into silly territory.

You were called out, you planted the bait, you might as well let us in on it.

Such is life.

Deal with it.

It sucks but it is the way it is.
I sold a MB for 48, made the deal with the first guy contingent on his seeing and playing the game the following weekend.
In the interim I got a few offers for more, one for 55.
I was really hoping the first guy wouldn't show up or if he did that he would lowball me but he showed up when he said he would and just peeled off the green.
In the end I got my asking price and didn't "lose" anything.

Before you burn a bridge for a few bucks remember what a small community you are dealing with and act accordingly.

Backing out of a deal, agreed verbally or otherwise, is dishonest IMO.
If the reason is money that just makes it worse.

That is life especially now a days.

Tip:- Bank transfer a deposit to the seller!

I've seen every flavor of these transactions happen before.

The really great sellers make up for the really horrible ones.

I picked up one of my holy grail machines after an 18-hour drive for an amazing deal. That guy was awesome. I picked up a $4k machine for $1k from a CL seller who knew they listed too low a price but agreed to honor the deal even though they've had people calling asking for more. I really treasure those kinds of sellers and I keep in touch with them and hope to return the favor one day.

On the other hand, I've had people sell stuff out from under me on multiple occasions. I had one guy make a deal with me and then before I went to drive to go pick it up, I checked on eBay and he had the same game listed on eBay, trying to get more money after he'd already worked a deal with me.

I had a pinsider sell a game out from under me too, although I probably could have moved faster if I really wanted it, but it was still kinda crappy. At least he let me know before I spent two days driving up there.

I could be wrong.. but verbal contracts are binding in a court of law here in the great state of MN.

Not that this all constitutes a verbal contract.

Agreeing to sell something for one price, then backing out for no reason is pretty crappy, imo. If you were/are unsure, don't list it for sale until you are. If you list it for a price and get someone to buy, don't jack up the price or sell it from under them, thats just bad business.

Should have offered a deposit. I just sold my CV after promising to hold it for a guy. The day came and went when he was supposed to collect it and i got no contact, so i sold it to another pinthusiast (and much nicer guy) for £100 LESS than the original fella.

A day before the second pinthusiast was to collect the first guy contacted me with a story i didnt care to listen to. When i told him i had now promised it to another, and that the new buyer had paid me a substantial deposit, he went ape shit on the phone and started hurling abuse at me. Nice huh?

Y'see, people lie all the time. If someone doesnt know you personally, how are they to know what you say is the truth? No money offered tells me they may never show up. Imagine that mindset when a local comes up with more cash and an easier sale for the seller. Its a no brainer sale right there.

Is calling this person out the right thing to do?? IDK??

I recently offered to buy a pinsiders pin for sale, he went above and beyond give me guidence on who to call about shipping, etc. At the last minute the same pin and another I wanted went up for sale here in town. I called the pinsider and told him what happened.....I even offered something for his troubles.

I guess I am thinking how would I feel if someone posted this about me?? I dont think what I did was unethical.

Be kind

Maybe the seller is selling the pin to pay his electric bill or a past due doctor bill or moms mortgage and he needed the money asap. Hes not going to tell you that. This is an unknown when buying from some1 you dont know. So if he can get a few xtra $ when he is behind on bills can you blame him. Most people wont admit problems in there life. Dont cry over spilt milk. You can also bet your ass that if i was buying from a pinsider and was on my way and everything was on the up and up and then when I get there he sold it 20 min ago to some other guy for a few bucks more i would start a topic about it. After renting a van and driving a few hours and tolls. I would be pissed. Other then that you cant get mad. But then again i live in downstate NY and very use to this "deal not closed untill cash in hand".

So the seller now wants fair market value for the machine or is he gouging?

I understand that the seller backed out of the original deal which was for $1,800.

He's gouging. If he wanted more money, he should have done reaserch before he listed a price. I know I check prices before I throw out a number when I go sell a pin.

I don't buy the need the money fast comment either. If he needed the money, he should have listed it for higher in the first place. Usually when you need money fast, you lower the price for a quick sale, not raise it by 40%.

Here's the deal. Buyers flake out also. Sellers don't have a "for sure" thing until the money switches hands. If you want a pin, rush out and drop the cash. If you don't, it may be sold out from under you. Unless I personally know the buyer and can trust his word based on knowing him, I will sell a pin to the first buyer even if someone else plans to come "next week" etc. when someone puts a pin up for sale, he wants it gone. The first person with the cash wins. Let this be a lesson for you.

So he goes to court and wins. If he were to prove his case, I am sure the judgement would be that he receives any lost revenue for not getting the machine. Gas? Lost wages? From the OP own statements the deal not happening did not cost him anything other than bad feelings.

I always believe things happen for a reason. I hope you find a great deal and you use the 1800 that you did not spend on this to come out ahead. I've seen it happen in life plenty of times.

I agree with jhanley. I don't have a problem with first to show with cash gets it, as long as it's stated up front.

I have a problem with "I'll hold it for you", then not hold it.

If I make a deal verbally, I usually follow up with an email to put things in writing and ask them to confirm I got it right. I also always offer a deposit to hold the game for me. Not more than I am willing to lose in case it really goes south. Overall, that approach has worked well for me. Having a deal in writing and holding some money is enough for most folks to stick with a deal. If there is no money on the table and it is strictly verbal than I'd consider it more likely for one party or the other to break the deal.

That's fair. HOWEVER, if a seller agrees to a deal in principal, then the honorable thing to do is be straight with the buyer. If someone offers more, contact them and let them know, or beforehand say, "Look, until I get a deposit or the money is in my hand, I reserve the right to make another deal."

This "first person with the cash wins" is the standard line of a scoundrel who likes to scoop other peoples' deals. That same person will be the first to complain if someone else beats them to the same deal.

Well said Gweempose couldn't agree with you more. Pretty weak to pull this on a fellow Pinsider. Thanks for posting and letting the community know about this jhanley. Being upset is absolutely understandable in this situation.

Story of my life when buying pinball machines. I've been screwed over many times and it's infuriating. Just always remember it's not yours until it's in your truck.

You do need a lesson if this surprised you or pissed you off enough to post about it. That's just how it is. That's the lesson. And you needed a lesson unless you agree with this, in which case you don't need the lesson because you already learned it.

It doesn't really matter if some says he will hold it for you. You should know that every second you waste not getting it is a chance someone else will. Even deposits don't matter. Deposit money can be refunded. I'm not saying this is right. But it is how it is.

I just did a pin deal with pdxmonkey and he told me "we have a deal". Because I know him I can trust that. But if it were someone I didn't know, I'd think the deal was about 75% done because it can fall apart at any time. It happens in all aspects of business from real estate to corporate mergers to pinball sales. It's just life.

I've had really good luck in my dealings with Colorado Cl'ers. The man I sold and shipped my Shadow to told me up to the last minute that if I had a buyer locally he'd understand. I had no takers while the machine was advertized for a few weeks, so I shipped it to a satisfied buyer. I feel bad some of you have had to deal with sh!theads. The folks I dealt with on 4 different machines agreed to hold them for me so I could go pick it up! What an amazing concept! The only one that screwed me was a local router. He decided to ship it 'overnight' before I could see it the next morning... You know, it may be a cliche', but for me it still rings true in this day and age. "A man is only as good as his word". Which means; a man who cannot be trusted is not much. If you can believe his words and he lives up to them, he is a good man. If someone scams you or lies to you, or promises you something and never comes through, he's not much of a man.

It's life.

If I expected every phone call & email that I receive everyday from possible customers (20 plus)

I'd have no tables.

If you offered him a good deal, and he tried to talk you down further, then you had every right to stop dealing with him. As long as he's trying to talk you down, there's no deal at all.

Welcome to my world.

I had a guy ring me up 6 days in a row. On the 7th day he was supposed to be travelling to see me with the possibility of purchasing 3 machines. He even rang me at 10.30pm on day 6. He seemed very keen considering the phone calls etc

Day 7 - No call.
Day 8 - No call.

Day 26 - No call.

A$$hole!

I am sorry if I have given the impression that I am a business or an expert.

I am just a guy that likes pinball. I have bought 8 machines over the years and have fixed them all up to a working state. Only one of them has ever moved on. I am not trying to make a living with this hobby, or even make a profit. I sink hundreds of dollars into every machine I have to make them work the way they are supposed to. I don't care much about the bling.

I am in this because I think pinball machines are awesome and really enjoy keeping them working. Over the years I have learned a ton from the people on pinside and I thank you all for that. I would like to think that I contributed in a positive way to help others diagnose problems and have the courage to fix it themselves through my posts.

It comes down to personal integrity in a business transaction - the operative work being personal. Its evident that this runs the gamut even among pinheads, and probably differs situationally. I've driven 6 hours after confirming a deal that morning only to have the seller literally ask what I was doing there when I arrived, and inform me that the table was sold hours before. I left him with a few choice words before i started the 6 hour drive back - empty handed and fuming the whole way.

If I make a deal with someone, i live up to that deal irrespective of what comes along. There are ways and ways for one to rationalize not doing so. The rationalization will always be sound to one party and not so much to the other.

Ultimately I just try to learn from the experience, move along to the next, and try to protect myself from the lack of integrity that seems more prevalent nowadays.

I see no reason to lock a thread like this unless the original owner asks for it to be locked. It proviodes perspective to dealings that pinsiders have had with fellow pinsiders.

Pleanty of things to be learned form this thread.

^^ Well said.

this is life; it stinks sometimes, now lets play some pinball and take out some high scores!

i think the main points and lessons to be learned have been laid out fairly well at this point.

IBTL

Such is life.

You're unable to win them all.

The moral of the story seems to be...

If you're selling a pinball machine, yea, technically you can make whatever deal you want until that machine is physically out of your hands and a transaction has been fully-completed. You can tell the buyer one thing, then tell him something else when he shows up; you can sell it out from under him; you can misrepresent the machine; you can choose not to sell it at all. You can make him think he's getting one kind of deal, when he isn't. You can also rationalize that there's nothing wrong with that.

It's your prerogative. Nobody is saying it's necessarily "illegal." And I've noticed that some sellers seem to think anything short of being "illegal" is "fair game." I guess that's one way to look at it.

But this is a small community. Most everybody knows each other. What goes around comes around. If making a few extra bucks is worth tarnishing your reputation, so be it.

Different people have different priorities. I've sold machines for much less than what I could have gotten, to friends and strangers, and in the end it always seems to even out. There's always another deal out there that works in my favor, or a seller who takes care of me. I pay it forward. I don't have to, but I think it works out that way. Those of you who think you always have to get the absolute maximum price, you might want to try being a little more relaxed with your transactions. You may find you end up with more at the end of the day.

Well said!

I could not word it better myself!

To all those who have lost out.. That is life! Moaning about it will not make the seller bring the machine to you (the buyer)

I love people like this who think they own the board.

Agreed.

I wish I could flex my index fingers!

My (very inexperienced) take on doing business with fellow pinsiders: To me the most important aspect of this is not only to get a nice machine at a fair price but to also cultivate a relationship with that person. From my limited experience in reading/participating on this forum/community by and large everyone here seems great. I have only ever bought one machine and was lucky enough to have bought it from a fellow pinsider and the whole deal went about as smooth as it could have for both sides: I got a nice machine at a what I feel was a fair price and the seller felt good about what I paid him for the machine. So win/win.

Best part is I now feel like I have a little bit closer relationship with someone in the same hobby as me and on top of that they are more experienced and knowledgeable than myself so I think that might pay out other dividends of it's own in the future.

I'm sorry the same thing did not happen for you two guys.