(Topic ID: 16070)

I AM PISSED!


By jhanley

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 122 posts
  • 56 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by SunKing
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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    There are 122 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
    #51 7 years ago
    Quoted from jalpert:

    but for $150 was it really worth

    Not much money for someone's integrity.

    LTG

    #52 7 years ago
    Quoted from donjagra:

    I'm sorry it didn't work out jhanley, I hope you find something soon.
    I have my reasons for backing out and they aren't all monetary.

    You are so full of it. You cover your lies with more lies. You arent BSing anyone but your self. I just want to know, was it really worth it?

    #53 7 years ago
    Quoted from Monster_Bash:

    I guess it depend who you are. Although I scrape every extra nickel to buy a pin...there's no way I would go back on my word for more cash...on a sale
    Case in point I offered up a pin for sale an put it pretty much everywhere. Well MrPinball must have had some issues because the add didn't post for 4-5 days. I made a deal with a pinsider for the sale of the game. Before the game was picked up or shipped, I had a full asking price offer ($250 more than I sold it for) from a relatively local guy that saw the add on MrPinball. Of course that would have also saved me packaging and palletting...leaving work to meet the shipping company...etc. There's no $ amount you can put on your word... or a 'handshake.'
    On a side note I've never made a deal to buy a pin (CL included..and I've 'stolen' a few from CL) and got backed out on from the seller.
    Maybe it's karma at work...

    And i appreciate that word to no end When you work with Honest people that relationship is worth more than a few extra bucks in my opinion.

    #54 7 years ago

    You know its a strange coincidence that theres a BSD for sale all of a sudden in the marketplace for $3000. And its in Draper which is in SLC, Utah. Hmmmm!

    #55 7 years ago

    What I'm saying is that when money changes hands it goes from a promise to a deal. I'm not saying it's right, but until you pay, they don't owe you anything. Unless you can prove you acted on their promise and incurred losses because of that, but now we're into silly territory.

    Quoted from absocountry2:

    So you are saying your word means nothing? If I make a verbal agreement on the phone or in a message with a person that deal stands. More money will not make me go back on my word.

    #56 7 years ago

    You were called out, you planted the bait, you might as well let us in on it.

    Quoted from donjagra:

    I'm sorry it didn't work out jhanley, I hope you find something soon.

    I have my reasons for backing out and they aren't all monetary.

    #57 7 years ago

    Such is life.

    Deal with it.

    #58 7 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballdad:

    <<<Am I missing something here or is a" mans "word worth anything any more. If I tell someone Im going to do something my word is worth more than a couple hundred bucks .>>>
    I feel for you and understand. I was chumped about a year ago for a lousy $50 on a pin. I had a verbal phone call deal and I was on my way Sun morning to pick up the pin. Next Morning I call to confirm and the seller says I sold it and got $50 more last night. I said, "Why did you at least not call me at the time and allow me a chance to bid higher on your broken word as a gentleman"? He became upset (with guilt I suppose) and hung up the phone. Lol.
    My word is very important to me. Handshake even more...I would die before breaking a deal and trust me I have had countless opportunities to screw my fellow man/woman over in deals in 30 years. I choose not to, like you At least we do not have to worry or look over our backs
    The world is lacking so much in courtesy and integrity these days So sad!

    It sucks but it is the way it is.
    I sold a MB for 48, made the deal with the first guy contingent on his seeing and playing the game the following weekend.
    In the interim I got a few offers for more, one for 55.
    I was really hoping the first guy wouldn't show up or if he did that he would lowball me but he showed up when he said he would and just peeled off the green.
    In the end I got my asking price and didn't "lose" anything.

    Before you burn a bridge for a few bucks remember what a small community you are dealing with and act accordingly.

    #59 7 years ago

    Backing out of a deal, agreed verbally or otherwise, is dishonest IMO.
    If the reason is money that just makes it worse.

    #60 7 years ago
    Quoted from Marten:

    Backing out of a deal, agreed verbally or otherwise, is dishonest IMO.
    If the reason is money that just makes it worse.

    That is life especially now a days.

    Tip:- Bank transfer a deposit to the seller!

    #61 7 years ago

    I've seen every flavor of these transactions happen before.

    The really great sellers make up for the really horrible ones.

    I picked up one of my holy grail machines after an 18-hour drive for an amazing deal. That guy was awesome. I picked up a $4k machine for $1k from a CL seller who knew they listed too low a price but agreed to honor the deal even though they've had people calling asking for more. I really treasure those kinds of sellers and I keep in touch with them and hope to return the favor one day.

    On the other hand, I've had people sell stuff out from under me on multiple occasions. I had one guy make a deal with me and then before I went to drive to go pick it up, I checked on eBay and he had the same game listed on eBay, trying to get more money after he'd already worked a deal with me.

    I had a pinsider sell a game out from under me too, although I probably could have moved faster if I really wanted it, but it was still kinda crappy. At least he let me know before I spent two days driving up there.

    #62 7 years ago

    I could be wrong.. but verbal contracts are binding in a court of law here in the great state of MN.

    Not that this all constitutes a verbal contract.

    Agreeing to sell something for one price, then backing out for no reason is pretty crappy, imo. If you were/are unsure, don't list it for sale until you are. If you list it for a price and get someone to buy, don't jack up the price or sell it from under them, thats just bad business.

    #63 7 years ago

    Should have offered a deposit. I just sold my CV after promising to hold it for a guy. The day came and went when he was supposed to collect it and i got no contact, so i sold it to another pinthusiast (and much nicer guy) for £100 LESS than the original fella.

    A day before the second pinthusiast was to collect the first guy contacted me with a story i didnt care to listen to. When i told him i had now promised it to another, and that the new buyer had paid me a substantial deposit, he went ape shit on the phone and started hurling abuse at me. Nice huh?

    Y'see, people lie all the time. If someone doesnt know you personally, how are they to know what you say is the truth? No money offered tells me they may never show up. Imagine that mindset when a local comes up with more cash and an easier sale for the seller. Its a no brainer sale right there.

    #64 7 years ago

    Is calling this person out the right thing to do?? IDK??

    I recently offered to buy a pinsiders pin for sale, he went above and beyond give me guidence on who to call about shipping, etc. At the last minute the same pin and another I wanted went up for sale here in town. I called the pinsider and told him what happened.....I even offered something for his troubles.

    I guess I am thinking how would I feel if someone posted this about me?? I dont think what I did was unethical.

    Be kind

    #65 7 years ago
    Quoted from JDub1006:

    Is calling this person out the right thing to do?? IDK??
    I recently offered to buy a pinsiders pin for sale, he went above and beyond give me guidence on who to call about shipping, etc. At the last minute the same pin and another I wanted went up for sale here in town. I called the pinsider and told him what happened.....I even offered something for his troubles.
    I guess I am thinking how would I feel if someone posted this about me?? I dont think what I did was unethical.
    Be kind

    You know I can take alot but theres a point where I draw the line.This was purely monetary on his part. This was totally unethical and he freaking knows it.

    #66 7 years ago
    Quoted from jhanley:

    You know I can take alot but theres a point where I draw the line.This was purely monetary on his part. This was totally unethical.

    Maybe the seller is selling the pin to pay his electric bill or a past due doctor bill or moms mortgage and he needed the money asap. Hes not going to tell you that. This is an unknown when buying from some1 you dont know. So if he can get a few xtra $ when he is behind on bills can you blame him. Most people wont admit problems in there life. Dont cry over spilt milk. You can also bet your ass that if i was buying from a pinsider and was on my way and everything was on the up and up and then when I get there he sold it 20 min ago to some other guy for a few bucks more i would start a topic about it. After renting a van and driving a few hours and tolls. I would be pissed. Other then that you cant get mad. But then again i live in downstate NY and very use to this "deal not closed untill cash in hand".

    #67 7 years ago

    He called me and told me he didnt know the price of it had gone up and it would bother him to lose the money.This is not about having to pay bills.

    #68 7 years ago
    Quoted from jhanley:

    He called me and told me he didnt know the price of it had gone up and it would bother him to lose the money.This is not about having to pay bills.

    So the seller now wants fair market value for the machine or is he gouging?

    I understand that the seller backed out of the original deal which was for $1,800.

    #69 7 years ago

    I dont know the true value of the thing.I just wanted another pin but when he saw one sell for more than he quoted me he got greedy.

    #70 7 years ago
    Quoted from Mike_J:

    So the seller now wants fair market value for the machine or is he gouging?

    He's gouging. If he wanted more money, he should have done reaserch before he listed a price. I know I check prices before I throw out a number when I go sell a pin.

    I don't buy the need the money fast comment either. If he needed the money, he should have listed it for higher in the first place. Usually when you need money fast, you lower the price for a quick sale, not raise it by 40%.

    #71 7 years ago

    If that guy had any scruples at all he would have honored the deal.I guess I just have to get over it.

    #72 7 years ago

    Here's the deal. Buyers flake out also. Sellers don't have a "for sure" thing until the money switches hands. If you want a pin, rush out and drop the cash. If you don't, it may be sold out from under you. Unless I personally know the buyer and can trust his word based on knowing him, I will sell a pin to the first buyer even if someone else plans to come "next week" etc. when someone puts a pin up for sale, he wants it gone. The first person with the cash wins. Let this be a lesson for you.

    #73 7 years ago
    Quoted from jonogo:

    I could be wrong.. but verbal contracts are binding in a court of law here in the great state of MN.

    So he goes to court and wins. If he were to prove his case, I am sure the judgement would be that he receives any lost revenue for not getting the machine. Gas? Lost wages? From the OP own statements the deal not happening did not cost him anything other than bad feelings.

    Quoted from jhanley:

    I guess I just have to get over it.

    I always believe things happen for a reason. I hope you find a great deal and you use the 1800 that you did not spend on this to come out ahead. I've seen it happen in life plenty of times.

    #74 7 years ago

    I dont need a lesson from anyone. If he said the first one that gets there gets it I can except that.But dont tell me your holding it for me unless you intend to. He went straight to my pinside mail and offered it to me personally. Not the marketplace.

    #75 7 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    The first person with the cash wins

    Quoted from jhanley:

    He went straight to my pinside mail and offered it to me personally. Not the marketplace.

    I agree with jhanley. I don't have a problem with first to show with cash gets it, as long as it's stated up front.

    I have a problem with "I'll hold it for you", then not hold it.

    #76 7 years ago
    Quoted from jhanley:

    If that guy had any scruples at all he would have honored the deal.I guess I just have to get over it.

    If I make a deal verbally, I usually follow up with an email to put things in writing and ask them to confirm I got it right. I also always offer a deposit to hold the game for me. Not more than I am willing to lose in case it really goes south. Overall, that approach has worked well for me. Having a deal in writing and holding some money is enough for most folks to stick with a deal. If there is no money on the table and it is strictly verbal than I'd consider it more likely for one party or the other to break the deal.

    #77 7 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    Here's the deal. Buyers flake out also. Sellers don't have a "for sure" thing until the money switches hands. If you want a pin, rush out and drop the cash. If you don't, it may be sold out from under you. Unless I personally know the buyer and can trust his word based on knowing him, I will sell a pin to the first buyer even if someone else plans to come "next week" etc. when someone puts a pin up for sale, he wants it gone. The first person with the cash wins. Let this be a lesson for you.

    That's fair. HOWEVER, if a seller agrees to a deal in principal, then the honorable thing to do is be straight with the buyer. If someone offers more, contact them and let them know, or beforehand say, "Look, until I get a deposit or the money is in my hand, I reserve the right to make another deal."

    This "first person with the cash wins" is the standard line of a scoundrel who likes to scoop other peoples' deals. That same person will be the first to complain if someone else beats them to the same deal.

    #78 7 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    It's pretty simple. We reap what we sow. It's a small hobby, and word travels fast. If a person develops a reputation as someone who does not honor their word, they will quickly be shunned by the community.

    Well said Gweempose couldn't agree with you more. Pretty weak to pull this on a fellow Pinsider. Thanks for posting and letting the community know about this jhanley. Being upset is absolutely understandable in this situation.

    #79 7 years ago

    Story of my life when buying pinball machines. I've been screwed over many times and it's infuriating. Just always remember it's not yours until it's in your truck.

    #80 7 years ago
    Quoted from jhanley:

    I dont need a lesson from anyone. If he said the first one that gets there gets it I can except that.But dont tell me your holding it for me unless you intend to. He went straight to my pinside mail and offered it to me personally. Not the marketplace.

    You do need a lesson if this surprised you or pissed you off enough to post about it. That's just how it is. That's the lesson. And you needed a lesson unless you agree with this, in which case you don't need the lesson because you already learned it.

    It doesn't really matter if some says he will hold it for you. You should know that every second you waste not getting it is a chance someone else will. Even deposits don't matter. Deposit money can be refunded. I'm not saying this is right. But it is how it is.

    I just did a pin deal with pdxmonkey and he told me "we have a deal". Because I know him I can trust that. But if it were someone I didn't know, I'd think the deal was about 75% done because it can fall apart at any time. It happens in all aspects of business from real estate to corporate mergers to pinball sales. It's just life.

    #81 7 years ago

    I've had really good luck in my dealings with Colorado Cl'ers. The man I sold and shipped my Shadow to told me up to the last minute that if I had a buyer locally he'd understand. I had no takers while the machine was advertized for a few weeks, so I shipped it to a satisfied buyer. I feel bad some of you have had to deal with sh!theads. The folks I dealt with on 4 different machines agreed to hold them for me so I could go pick it up! What an amazing concept! The only one that screwed me was a local router. He decided to ship it 'overnight' before I could see it the next morning... You know, it may be a cliche', but for me it still rings true in this day and age. "A man is only as good as his word". Which means; a man who cannot be trusted is not much. If you can believe his words and he lives up to them, he is a good man. If someone scams you or lies to you, or promises you something and never comes through, he's not much of a man.

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    #83 7 years ago

    It's life.

    If I expected every phone call & email that I receive everyday from possible customers (20 plus)

    I'd have no tables.

    #84 7 years ago

    If you offered him a good deal, and he tried to talk you down further, then you had every right to stop dealing with him. As long as he's trying to talk you down, there's no deal at all.

    Quoted from donjagra:

    Jeff,

    It wasn't about the money. You really need to work on your people skills. If you remember, you were trying to talk me down because of the eBay auction. I had no idea it was even going on. I called it off because you are a jerk. The next time someone offers you a good deal, don't be such an asshole about it.

    #85 7 years ago

    Welcome to my world.

    I had a guy ring me up 6 days in a row. On the 7th day he was supposed to be travelling to see me with the possibility of purchasing 3 machines. He even rang me at 10.30pm on day 6. He seemed very keen considering the phone calls etc

    Day 7 - No call.
    Day 8 - No call.

    Day 26 - No call.

    A$$hole!

    #86 7 years ago

    I am sorry if I have given the impression that I am a business or an expert.

    I am just a guy that likes pinball. I have bought 8 machines over the years and have fixed them all up to a working state. Only one of them has ever moved on. I am not trying to make a living with this hobby, or even make a profit. I sink hundreds of dollars into every machine I have to make them work the way they are supposed to. I don't care much about the bling.

    I am in this because I think pinball machines are awesome and really enjoy keeping them working. Over the years I have learned a ton from the people on pinside and I thank you all for that. I would like to think that I contributed in a positive way to help others diagnose problems and have the courage to fix it themselves through my posts.

    #87 7 years ago
    Quoted from donjagra:

    Jeff,
    It wasn't about the money. You really need to work on your people skills. If you remember, you were trying to talk me down because of the eBay auction. I had no idea it was even going on. I called it off because you are a jerk. The next time someone offers you a good deal, don't be such an asshole about it.

    Im the asshole. You offered it to me for $1800. I stated that one on ebay was at $1525. Pinside only says its worth around $1300. I just asked if you would consider $1700 but you would ask your wife. I told you I was coming there to get it on thursday and you told me you couldnt sell it bacause you didnt realise it had gone up so much.You offered it to me for $1800 and that stood.You have no right to call me names when you are wrong.If your a man of your word I have $1800 sitting right here waiting for you. I just sold my jetski as part of a promise to my wife in getting a new pin. Now I have nothing to buy.

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    #89 7 years ago

    It comes down to personal integrity in a business transaction - the operative work being personal. Its evident that this runs the gamut even among pinheads, and probably differs situationally. I've driven 6 hours after confirming a deal that morning only to have the seller literally ask what I was doing there when I arrived, and inform me that the table was sold hours before. I left him with a few choice words before i started the 6 hour drive back - empty handed and fuming the whole way.

    If I make a deal with someone, i live up to that deal irrespective of what comes along. There are ways and ways for one to rationalize not doing so. The rationalization will always be sound to one party and not so much to the other.

    Ultimately I just try to learn from the experience, move along to the next, and try to protect myself from the lack of integrity that seems more prevalent nowadays.

    #90 7 years ago

    I see no reason to lock a thread like this unless the original owner asks for it to be locked. It proviodes perspective to dealings that pinsiders have had with fellow pinsiders.

    Pleanty of things to be learned form this thread.

    #91 7 years ago

    ^^ Well said.

    #92 7 years ago

    I guess this is getting out of hand. The simple fact of what happened is that he didnt want to sell it after seeing a obvious bidding war on ebay and went OOP,S Im selling this to low and couldnt live with that. He told me this on his cell phone in his car. He was fixing something on one of the boards in anticipation of me coming to buy it on thursday and wanted it to work 100%. I guess I was the asshole to believe he would honor it.

    #93 7 years ago

    this is life; it stinks sometimes, now lets play some pinball and take out some high scores!

    #94 7 years ago

    i think the main points and lessons to be learned have been laid out fairly well at this point.

    IBTL

    #95 7 years ago
    Quoted from jhanley:

    I guess this is getting out of hand. The simple fact of what happened is that he didnt want to sell it after seeing a obvious bidding war on ebay and went OOP,S Im selling this to low and couldnt live with that. He told me this on his cell phone in his car. He was fixing something on one of the boards in anticipation of me coming to buy it on thursday and wanted it to work 100%. I guess I was the asshole to believe he would honor it.

    Such is life.

    You're unable to win them all.

    #96 7 years ago

    The moral of the story seems to be...

    If you're selling a pinball machine, yea, technically you can make whatever deal you want until that machine is physically out of your hands and a transaction has been fully-completed. You can tell the buyer one thing, then tell him something else when he shows up; you can sell it out from under him; you can misrepresent the machine; you can choose not to sell it at all. You can make him think he's getting one kind of deal, when he isn't. You can also rationalize that there's nothing wrong with that.

    It's your prerogative. Nobody is saying it's necessarily "illegal." And I've noticed that some sellers seem to think anything short of being "illegal" is "fair game." I guess that's one way to look at it.

    But this is a small community. Most everybody knows each other. What goes around comes around. If making a few extra bucks is worth tarnishing your reputation, so be it.

    Different people have different priorities. I've sold machines for much less than what I could have gotten, to friends and strangers, and in the end it always seems to even out. There's always another deal out there that works in my favor, or a seller who takes care of me. I pay it forward. I don't have to, but I think it works out that way. Those of you who think you always have to get the absolute maximum price, you might want to try being a little more relaxed with your transactions. You may find you end up with more at the end of the day.

    #97 7 years ago

    Well said!

    I could not word it better myself!

    To all those who have lost out.. That is life! Moaning about it will not make the seller bring the machine to you (the buyer)

    #98 7 years ago

    I love people like this who think they own the board.

    Quoted from Pinchroma:

    Robin,

    Please lock this thread. We don't need this kind of Drama and Bitching. JHanley and DonJagra please take it offline.

    Respectfully,

    -Alex

    #99 7 years ago

    Agreed.

    I wish I could flex my index fingers!

    #100 7 years ago

    My (very inexperienced) take on doing business with fellow pinsiders: To me the most important aspect of this is not only to get a nice machine at a fair price but to also cultivate a relationship with that person. From my limited experience in reading/participating on this forum/community by and large everyone here seems great. I have only ever bought one machine and was lucky enough to have bought it from a fellow pinsider and the whole deal went about as smooth as it could have for both sides: I got a nice machine at a what I feel was a fair price and the seller felt good about what I paid him for the machine. So win/win.

    Best part is I now feel like I have a little bit closer relationship with someone in the same hobby as me and on top of that they are more experienced and knowledgeable than myself so I think that might pay out other dividends of it's own in the future.

    I'm sorry the same thing did not happen for you two guys.

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