(Topic ID: 241527)

I am dumb [{UPDATE]}


By dementedwarlok

5 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 56 posts
  • 34 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by Mitch
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 56 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 5 months ago

I guess this is more of a venting post than anything. I know the do's and don'ts of pinball. I went to adjust a switch from the bottom of the playfield. The game was on. I really thought I had room to move the switch out and straighten it out. I think it may have hit a coil on the way out. The high power was off. The game reset and came back on. My coils still work in test menu. I just have a bunch of switches out. I dont believe I did that. I can do the mechanical stuff but when it comes to the electronics I am dumbfounded. I still cant believe i did that, what the hell was i thinking. Not sure how to fix it the fuses are good.

#2 5 months ago

If you sent high power to the switch matrix yes you could have broken stuff.

Bummer for sure.

Others should chime in with actual advice but just wanting to let you know:. Yes you were stupid. But we are all stupid sometimes.

This should serve as a lifetime reminder to turn the game off for pretty much any adjustment. It might cost you some time and money to fix it this but this should be fixable.

#3 5 months ago

even with the high power interlock it can mess things up?

#4 5 months ago
Quoted from dementedwarlok:

yeah i know i messed up. even with the high power interlock it can mess things up?

Yes that's why they say turn it off.

#5 5 months ago
Quoted from dementedwarlok:

even with the high power interlock it can mess things up?

All I can say based on your info is something clearly got messed up.

I think we both agree with the power off this would have been less likely.

Maybe start by cataloguing the broken switches.

Are they all in the same columns or rows etc...

#6 5 months ago

You blew the U20 chip on the MPU if this is a WPC game

25
#7 5 months ago

Don't ask me how I know

#8 5 months ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

Are they all in the same columns or rows etc...

They seem to be. Switches are slings, jackpot switch and the other one on top, pops and that sling, and the right upper rollover switch

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#9 5 months ago
Quoted from jahbarron:

You blew the U20 chip on the MPU if this is a WPC game

I have to ask how you know lol! Hope its a chip that is removable

#10 5 months ago
Quoted from dementedwarlok:

I have to ask how you know lol! Hope its a chip that is removable

It's llikely the U20 chip.
https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-uln2803a-switch-matrix-driver-chip.html

I did a similar thing on a TZ I was babysitting. I turned the game off, but didn't wait long enough (went in with a nut driver) and ended up blowing that chip. It was previously socketed so it was easy to replace, but yours may or may not be.

#11 5 months ago
Quoted from dementedwarlok:

I have to ask how you know lol! Hope its a chip that is removable

If it hasn't been replaced before it isn't socketed, but you definitely need to add a socket for the future. It's not an uncommon happening to blow that chip.

#12 5 months ago

Yup easy fix with the right tools. Is there anyone you know who can do board work? Parts are cheap and once its socketed its easy for you to fix should it ever happen again.
Get nvram installed at the same time , that way you had to take the board out for the work to be done anyways. No worries.

Lesson learnt and safer no battery board.

Another lesson is to change bulbs with the power off too. Heard of people dropping bulbs and frying stuff that way too.

Power off and wait 5 mins at least. good to go.

#13 5 months ago
Quoted from Hawk007:

wait 5 mins at least.

How long should one wait? Interested to know how waiting plays into it. I have turned off games in the past and started swapping bulbs right away without waiting. Turn it on, check the colors, turned it off and swap again. Didn't realize waiting for a period was key.

#14 5 months ago
Quoted from Jgel:

How long should one wait? Interested to know how waiting plays into it. I have turned off games in the past and started swapping bulbs right away without waiting. Turn it on, check the colors, turned it off and swap again. Didn't realize waiting for a period was key.

There are capacitors that still hold a charge after turning the game off. If you need to go in with tools, it's best to wait until the caps discharge. As I mentioned in my previous post, I turned off the game, but didn't wait long enough and shorted out a column of switches with a nut driver. I didn't know that until after the fact.

I haven't had any issues with changing bulbs with the game on, but it's not something I do regularly. YMMV

#15 5 months ago

Most games discharge the caps slowly once powered off. The longer you wait the better. Usually 30 mins to be absolutely sure

11
#16 5 months ago
Quoted from Hawk007:

Usually 30 mins to be absolutely sure

Come on.

#17 5 months ago

I had the back box open and shut off the game, watched the LEDs on the boards they stay on for a few that's for sure. Didn't time them.

#18 5 months ago

Fist sized caps?

#19 5 months ago

Only say that for board work. If just doing small crap a couple mins is fine.

#20 5 months ago

Unless you are experienced then pull the boards when you want as you are much more aware there could be current in the caps.

#21 5 months ago

Only trying to help out someone new to pinball and keep them safe as possible and limit damage to the game or themselves.

#22 5 months ago

If you ever hear a loud crack messing with a pin-bot with the power on, I have spare transistors to replace the one you exploded. Don’t ask me how I know... lol
It happens... We can all get a little rammy sometimes.

#23 5 months ago

I did just this same thing adjusting a scoring switch in a system 7. Took out a collumn of 8 switches. The chip that decodes them was socketed (rottendog board), so was an easy swap. Never again for me, power goes off first. Good luck!

#24 5 months ago

Ever graze the big power cap in the bb? NOT FUN.

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#25 5 months ago

Did you post that expecting anyone here on Pinside to disagree with you?
But at least you can get some good advice here.

Quoted from Hawk007:

Only trying to help out someone new to pinball.

I like seeing Hawk's posts just because I like his avatar pic of Heather Thomas in a bikini.

#26 5 months ago

Shit happens, fix it up and add it to your experience.

I once picked up a Victory that hadn't been serviced in years, so all the GI and most of the inserts were out. I methodically changed every bulb, turned it on, noticed 1 or 2 not working and went to touch them to check and shorted out the entire GI chain. Blew every new bulb in the GI that I had just put in.

#27 5 months ago

A good friend of mine did the same on his NBA Fastbreak with a slingshot switch 2 years ago. But... The high power was not off. Numerous repairs, lots of time, lots of money but nobody was hurt. The good part: he learned!

#28 5 months ago

Will blown chip on the switch matrix circuit somewhere. It's all fixable

#29 5 months ago

Before the topic gets to far off hand, thank you everyone for the help with possible fixes. This gives me a idea on what would have to spend to get it done. I was just laid off for about 2 months from work so funds are still pretty limited. NVRAM and socketing the chip are in the works. Cheap to order, expensive to install. I would do it myself as I have the stuff to sodder but not the tools to remove the sodder and with my luck its best to leave to the local repairman. I bought the game from my local operator and he might come by and check it out.

#30 5 months ago

I do have to ask if the chip is blown, wouldn't that effect all the switches?

#31 5 months ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

Ever graze the big power cap in the bb? NOT FUN.[quoted image]

LOL....when i was younger, the power light stopped working on my 100 watt Marshall amp. No biggee, I popped the back off, reached up in there, and next thing I knew I was 3 feet away, on my ass.

Put the back on, took it to the music store and had them do a tune up while they were in there changing the bulb....

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#32 5 months ago
Quoted from dementedwarlok:

Before the topic gets to far off hand, thank you everyone for the help with possible fixes. This gives me a idea on what would have to spend to get it done. I was just laid off for about 2 months from work so funds are still pretty limited. NVRAM and socketing the chip are in the works. Cheap to order, expensive to install. I would do it myself as I have the stuff to sodder but not the tools to remove the sodder and with my luck its best to leave to the local repairman. I bought the game from my local operator and he might come by and check it out.

The best tool to have around is a Hakko De-solder gun. It is not cheap but just real handy to have when you need it. And you can always sell it and get your money back. The worst tool to have around if you don't know how to use it correctly is a Hakko de-solder gun. You can ruin a board if you don't know what you are doing.

#33 5 months ago
Quoted from jahbarron:

You blew the U20 chip on the MPU if this is a WPC game

Yep done that before. It’s a right is passage. You are not dumb. Mistakes happen. Live and Learn.

#34 5 months ago

Here's a thread I started when I did something dumb (although nothing broke, I got lucky ). https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stupid-pinball-things-you-ve-done

#35 5 months ago
Quoted from dementedwarlok:

Before the topic gets to far off hand, thank you everyone for the help with possible fixes. This gives me a idea on what would have to spend to get it done. I was just laid off for about 2 months from work so funds are still pretty limited. NVRAM and socketing the chip are in the works. Cheap to order, expensive to install. I would do it myself as I have the stuff to sodder but not the tools to remove the sodder and with my luck its best to leave to the local repairman. I bought the game from my local operator and he might come by and check it out.

Feel for ya buddy, hope work picks up but in the meantime maybe someone on here can help who is close to you. I would be glad to help ya out but you are a little far for me to drive too. lol

No worries as its an easy fix and its a great learning experience. You did not get hurt no harm no foul. great guys on here I am sure someone will chime in. maybe add that to your title..looking for help in IN

Cheers man. We have all done dumb things. Its human nature.

#36 5 months ago

Yup...we've all been there! I will still sometimes do bulbs with the game on, but make a judgement call based on where they are. I know damn well I'm taking a risk doing it though...LOL.

For removing the solder, all you really need is one of those simple solder suckers. The cheap/dirty bulb (turkey baster) style works fine for occasional board work. I always meant to get something more fancy, but haven't found it to be really necessary yet. Give it a shot...you can't make it too much worse than it already is (well...for the most part...)

#37 5 months ago
Quoted from dementedwarlok:

I still cant believe i did that,

You made a mistake. Not the end of the world. There isn't a school to go to for learning pinball repair. Consider you just paid some dues.

What game ? Switches -which row or column is out ? People here will guide you on what is likely wrong.

If you don't have board repair skills and something needs soldering, seek help until your skills improve.

LTG : )

#38 5 months ago

I have a box of these chips I - the switch matrix is does not care for the high power and easy to do on a WPC - they started coming from the factory with sockets because it was so common, yes its logical that only partial is out.

#39 5 months ago
Quoted from pinzrfun:

LOL....when i was younger, the power light stopped working on my 100 watt Marshall amp. No biggee, I popped the back off, reached up in there, and next thing I knew I was 3 feet away, on my ass.
Put the back on, took it to the music store and had them do a tune up while they were in there changing the bulb....
[quoted image]

Yeah .... when I was younger it was a 1 farad in the back of my trunk. Needless to say I was not in the trunk very long and was prob very lucky I wasn't hurt. Never made that mistake again.

#40 5 months ago

Yeah, I wouldn't attempt to remove this chip if you don't have a lot of desoldering experience. The traces lift very easily.

Don't ask me how I know

#41 5 months ago
Quoted from dementedwarlok:

I do have to ask if the chip is blown, wouldn't that effect all the switches?

ah no, because its a switch matrix you will probably find just one column / row has died taking out all the switches connected to it. If you look up in your schematic all the dead switches and see if there is a pattern. This will narrow you down to which chip is damaged

#42 5 months ago

Thank you for your cautionary tale!

#43 5 months ago
Quoted from dementedwarlok:

I do have to ask if the chip is blown, wouldn't that effect all the switches?

Maybe, maybe not. Hopefully there wasn't enough power sent in to fry the traces to the chip. That's a fun repair.

#44 5 months ago
Quoted from dementedwarlok:

I have to ask how you know lol! Hope its a chip that is removable

All chips are removable...they just have varying degrees of difficulty.

#45 5 months ago

Good job ya knuckle head. You’re not dumb though. I’ve done something not as bad, but it happens.

#46 5 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Maybe, maybe not. Hopefully there wasn't enough power sent in to fry the traces to the chip. That's a fun repair.

Doubtful. I had U20 blow due to a wire with damaged insulation hitting a flipper leaf switch. Hit it so hard that is physically blew some of the legs off of U20. No traces were damaged.

#47 5 months ago

and here I thought this was going to be a thread that should be in the LED fails thread.

#48 5 months ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

and here I thought this was going to be a thread that should be in the LED fails thread.

Oh man! You’d have to have a pretty thick flame suit on to admit that and then start a thread about it on top of it!

#49 5 months ago

it was the U20 all is well and i will be streaming it tomarrow for about 4 hours of testing to make sure all is well. THANK YOU everyone

#50 5 months ago

Good. Now no more working on games with the power on. Yeah, it looks cool having the game on while you work on it until something like this happens

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