(Topic ID: 243613)

I Accidently Tried to Burn Down My local Stern Dealer (sorry Stern)


By whthrs166

88 days ago



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  • 105 posts
  • 48 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 84 days ago by whthrs166
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    There are 105 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
    #51 87 days ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    Dude!
    Pinball machines are historically designed to be run 24/7.

    Also designed to be in a landfill in 3-5 years as well, I'm sure none of the manufactures thought any would be around 50+ years in some cases.

    In my business I have seen too many things catch fire for "no reason" I'm in the better safe than sorry camp. One guy on a Mopar board just lost his garage with cars in it last year due to a cordless battery pack charger burning while he was out.

    #52 87 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Also designed to be in a landfill in 3-5 years as well

    Here’s one of the “landfill” Bally Williams I own.

    This pin was made in 1993.

    It was exported to Japan. It was run around the clock in a Tokyo Arcade.

    Then when Japan didn’t want pins, it went to Germany and was run 24/7 in an autobahn truckstop.

    Finally, it was retired and sent to New Zealand.

    It was in a very tired state. But it still worked.

    And here it is now. Still running like a rocket!

    rd

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    #53 87 days ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    Run constantly to make the owner money.

    Yes and this is very true for a business. However a home environment is a bit different. You have a lot riding on top of those games in your basement! Your family first and formost, all your stuff and your home. That is your largest investment in life! Is it worth destroying on a few games being left on with no one around. Locations have someone there always or almost always.

    #54 87 days ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    Here’s one of the “landfill” Bally Williams I own.

    No doubt! Tell me where that landfill is, and I will head over and start digging!

    #55 87 days ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    Locations have someone there always or almost always.

    I think you missed the point.

    That old POS CFTBL never caught on fire.

    Despite being run for like 175,200 (rough guesstimate) hours straight.

    rd

    #56 87 days ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    I think you missed the point.
    That old POS CFTBL never caught on fire.
    Despite being run for like 175,200 (rough guesstimate) hours straight.
    rd

    And a brand new one caught fire sitting in a show room.

    Fire safety is my business, I don't gamble with my families home and lives over something as trivial as leaving a machine on unattended.

    I have seen too many gutted rooms and buildings that could have been prevented.

    No thanks.

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    #57 87 days ago

    Lemmy tell ya somethin RD

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    #58 87 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Fire safety is my business, I don't gamble with my families home and lives over something as trivial as leaving a machine on unattended.

    Then you should know that things don't have to be on to catch fire. Do you disconnect power to your house every time you leave? No. Do you drain the fuel tank on your vehicle when you're not driving it? No. Do you wear a fire suit and helmet every time you drive? No. Avoid red meat, alcohol, smoking, dirty needles, and on, and on, and on...
    You weigh the chances of damage from other causes like thermal cycling and data loss vs. whatever other risks you can think of and act accordingly.

    #59 87 days ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    Then you should know that things don't have to be on to catch fire. Do you disconnect power to your house every time you leave? No. Do you drain the fuel tank on your vehicle when you're not driving it? No. Do you wear a fire suit and helmet every time you drive? No. Avoid red meat, alcohol, smoking, dirty needles, and on, and on, and on...
    You weigh the chances of damage from other causes like thermal cycling and data loss vs. whatever other risks you can think of and act accordingly.

    There are acceptable risks and risks that can be mitigated.

    The picture I posted is from a facility right here in this state where 16 people died and it was avoidable.

    And yes, as a matter of fact my workshop, game room and garage are powered down when I'm done for the day.

    For the record I have had not one but two machines catch fire, one while I was in the process of purchasing it! So machines catching fire are not out of the realm of foreseeable probabilities.

    No one wants to see this.

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    #60 87 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    The picture I posted is from a facility right here in this state where 16 people died and it was avoidable.

    The tens of thousands of pictures you didn't post are from facilities right there in your state that never had a serious incident.
    It's not necessary to cut power to your house every time you leave. Some people still do it.
    Most people don't back up their computer data and never have an issue. Some lose their life's work and precious photos to something easily mitigated.
    Don't let your cognitive bias make irrational decisions for you. Accurately assess your own situation, then act.

    #61 87 days ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    Don't let your cognitive bias make irrational decisions for you. Accurately assess your own situation, then act.

    There was half a million structure fires in the United States in 2017, ignoring the possibility of your home being one of those statistics..

    Do what thou will.

    #62 87 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    There was half a million structure fires in the United States in 2017, ignoring the possibility of your home being one of those statistics..
    Do what thou will.

    And a good chunk of those may not have been avoided by turning of the power when leaving. The vast majority of structure fires are caused by humans such as leaving a candle unattended, burning food on the stove, arson, construction, etc. Lightning causes a bunch as well.

    I was a fire chief - medic - and law enforcement officer for over 25 years. I worked a lot of structure fires in those years , and I can say it was a rarity to have an un-modified appliance fail which caused a fire, but it does happen. For the record, I turn my games off and unplug them when they are not in use in my home, but I do that because of the Mid-west storms. I am way more worried about lightning or power surges taking out my games than I am about the house busting into flames....lol But as they say, an ounce of protection is worth a pound of cure, so I would never fault someone for being too careful.

    #63 87 days ago
    Quoted from oldbaby:

    You should consider adding line breaks by pressing Enter every few sentences or so. Trust me, it makes text much more pleasurable to read.

    When using talk to text, most keep talking and don't add line breaks or paragraphs.

    #64 87 days ago
    Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

    The tens of thousands of pictures you didn't post are from facilities right there in your state that never had a serious incident.
    It's not necessary to cut power to your house every time you leave. Some people still do it.
    Most people don't back up their computer data and never have an issue. Some lose their life's work and precious photos to something easily mitigated.
    Don't let your cognitive bias make irrational decisions for you. Accurately assess your own situation, then act.

    "Cognitive Bias"
    This man understands.

    -11
    #65 87 days ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    Dude!
    Pinball machines are historically designed to be run 24/7.
    I’ve owned Bally Williams machines that have been run 365 days a year, 24 hours a day in truck stops in Europe. Like ... 20 years years straight without the power ever going off.
    The GI connectors are all toasted, the rubbers are falling off ... but they still run.
    That’s what amusement machines are supposed to do.
    Run constantly to make the owner money.
    rd

    You are talking about W/B machines not a POS stern with their chickenshit surface mount boards that are no better than the ones found in a cheap appliance.

    #66 87 days ago

    I had a T2 flare up on me once. A bracket broke that made a coil short and somehow the board started burning before the fuse went. Lots of smoke under the PF with a melted coil and a bit of flame on the board. I caught it quickly, unplugged it and it went out on its own. It may well have gone out had I left it alone and not turned the power off too as the fuse was gone by that stage. I knew the bracket was damaged so my fault and lesson learnt.

    Whenever I get a new game now (from NIB to new to me) or do a shop I always inspect everything for shorts and make a point out of leaving it on for quite a while to make sure nothing strange happens. I'm around it at first but then tend to go away more as I like to leave it on for a solid half day a few times. They are meant to be on for long periods of time and if they are working properly they should be fine.

    New games are not immune to problems and I would rather try and flush any potential problems out rather than not leaving it on for very long.

    #67 87 days ago

    I would like to know if a fire starts inside a pinball machine if its even possible for it to burn a building down when the coin door is closed and its locked up. I would think that the fire would burn itself out do to lack of oxygen. I had an operator who had a tzone and the GI had fuses bypassed. The whole left corner of the driver board was burned away. The game was on fire internally but due to lack of oxygen it went out. No one in the location was aware of what was going on at the time.

    #68 87 days ago
    Quoted from pinballplusMN:

    if a fire starts inside a pinball machine if its even possible for it to burn a building down when the coin door is closed and its locked up.

    Yes it's possible. Even with the door closed the machine isn't air-tight. It may start slightly slower but even the vents in the backbox can provide plenty of air.
    If a board burns up that doesn't mean the rest of the machine will catch fire. Once shorted wires burn up if it's not hot enough to sustain itself it goes out.

    #69 87 days ago

    I'd have to agree w RD on this....last I checked, clothes dryers and personal appliances (hair dryers, portable heaters, etc.) claim the vast majority of home fires. The quality of build of the worst pin far surpasses many "home only" crap appliances.

    Common sense always prevails. I've had magic smoke from all different pins, and had a UL listed home appliance pretty much incinerate a piece of furniture...quickly...before I found it (curling iron left energized in one of my daughter's bedrooms).

    I turn my pins on when I'm using them, turn them off when not. More for longevity of components, not for risk of ignition.

    #70 87 days ago

    Awesome story.

    #71 87 days ago
    Quoted from pinballplusMN:

    I would like to know if a fire starts inside a pinball machine if its even possible for it to burn

    Ah Yeah. Games are not air tight. Anyone that thinks a pinball machine cant start on fire is fooling themselves. I have seen it. Wood and electrical ARC Fault = Fire.

    #72 86 days ago

    I always turn mine off, but would not worry of fire if left on. Odds of that are in the million to one catagory. Yes a coil driver may short, coil smokes, the whole room smells of smoke, but no fire. This game in question really had flames visible? I doubt. Smoke yes, fire? I highly doubt.

    #73 86 days ago

    Where there is smoke....

    #74 85 days ago

    ....there can be fire. Poor Sinbad burned like a woodstove.....semi contained so not much outward flame but incredible heat. Melted my TV, stereo, and fridge. (Don't ask why my cat is there, hit it by accident and can't delete it)

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    #75 85 days ago

    ....there can be fire. Poor Sinbad was just airtight enough to burn like a woodstove, not much flame but incredible heat. Melted my stereo, fridge, and TV.

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    #76 85 days ago

    When I want to play mine, I plug them in and turn them on.

    When I’m done, I turn them off and unplug them.

    I’m shocked to learn about “arc faults.” This thread has been an education about electricity for me.

    #77 85 days ago
    Quoted from Mistermoberg:

    When I want to play mine, I plug them in and turn them on.
    When I’m done, I turn them off and unplug them.
    I’m shocked to learn about “arc faults.” This thread has been an education about electricity for me.

    Arc fault protection has been in code for awhile...Primarily due to vacuum cleaners starting fires..

    #78 85 days ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    Arc fault protection has been in code for awhile...Primarily due to vacuum cleaners starting fires..

    Is this something that’s common with knob and tube?

    What things should I look for, if anything, when bringing a game home?

    #79 85 days ago

    The house I grew up in had active Knob & Tube wiring until my dad rewired the house in the late '60's.

    #80 85 days ago
    Quoted from Mistermoberg:

    Is this something that’s common with knob and tube?
    What things should I look for, if anything, when bringing a game home?

    Never my intent to say a pinball machine can't start a fire...of course they can. Rather, treat it like you would any other appliance in your home.

    Do you unplug you toaster after use? Microwave, etc.? Probably not. Over current, ground fault, and arc fault protection are all part of current NEC code.

    If you think your machine has faulty, unsafe wiring, it's no different than your TV....unplug it and have it repaired. I'm just not paranoid of my pins....More concerned about things left on the stove, candles, etc. Many things can start a fire...

    Again...When you use something, turn it on.When you're done, turn it off...I only disconnect my pins ( flip the breaker, as they are on their own circuits) during electrical storms, or when going out of town ( more to protect them)..

    #81 85 days ago
    Quoted from Mistermoberg:

    Is this something that’s common with knob and tube?

    If you have knob and tube in your home, probably can't plug your pins in anyway..No grounding connection (3rd pin)...I'd be focused on changing that out, for sure...Had a house built in `47 that I had to go completely through before selling it...Huge pita...

    #82 85 days ago

    Arc fault protection is basically a breaker that can be installed in your service panel that will detect when there’s a small break in the circuit. For instance, a lamp cord has a small nick or cut in it, therefore creating micro sparks that you don’t even know are present and creating heat. This laying on the carpet is waiting to start a fire. The breaker will trip before that happens. But there is more to this than just popping in a new breaker. The circuit that you are protecting MUST have it’s own dedicated neutral wire. The reason I say this is that it’s very common for houses to be wired with two circuits that share one neutral. So if you wanted to arc fault protect an existing circuit you most likely would have to pull a new dedicated neutral wire for it.

    #83 85 days ago
    Quoted from JayDee:

    Arc fault protection is basically a breaker that can be installed in your service panel that will detect when there’s a small break in the circuit. For instance, a lamp cord has a small nick or cut in it, therefore creating micro sparks that you don’t even know are present and creating heat. This laying on the carpet is waiting to start a fire. The breaker will trip before that happens. But there is more to this than just popping in a new breaker. The circuit that you are protecting MUST have it’s own dedicated neutral wire. The reason I say this is that it’s very common for houses to be wired with two circuits that share one neutral. So if you wanted to arc fault an existing circuit you most likely would have to pull a new dedicated neutral wire for it.

    Aka...The motor in a vacuum cleaner ( or a clothes dryer) creating 'arcs' in a dusty environment ... gf or sp wouldn't catch it....

    #84 85 days ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    If you have knob and tube in your home, probably can't plug your pins in anyway..No grounding connection (3rd pin)...I'd be focused on changing that out, for sure...Had a house built in `47 that I had to go completely through before selling it...Huge pita...

    The house is on breakers, knob and tube was just removed/cut out of my house, just curious.

    It was a major pita for me, I'm still cleaning up the dust from the horse hair plaster weeks later.

    #85 85 days ago

    I have always kept my games plugged in. I do have my machines on surge protectors and the outlets are Ground Fault Interupters. (GFIs) Pulling dedicated Neutrals? Never heard of that one. I just built a home with the ARC Fault Breakers due to the 2017 Electrical Code. I have to say that the ARC Fault Breakers are a joke and most of people remove them after the house has a CO. The breakers trip at random for no reason mostly where motors are used ( because a motor is really a continues arc) with heavy loads. Arc Faults are tricky because of unpredictability. I don't think we need to go off the deep end here though. Just make sure someone is around or in and out when your games are on.

    #86 85 days ago

    We have Arc Fault Breakers in our basement after the remodel -- never had a problem, except once or twice when using the vacuum cleaner. After reading this thread, I understand why.

    And I always turn off the machines when I'm not playing them.

    #87 85 days ago

    ARC Fault!!!

    Sorry had to say it I was feeling left out.

    #88 85 days ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    Arc fault protection has been in code for awhile...Primarily due to vacuum cleaners starting fires..

    I have 26 games, plus arcade games and a dynamo air hockey. Our house is built in 2016 and I am running full ARC fault circuit breakers. I have zero issues of them tripping my games as everyone says “those games will trip those” you neeed to remove them. If it is tripping there is a problem. It is possible they can but most likely a bad Game will do it and it will save my house. I also have full surge protection for every game. I do have more concern on the newer games than the older as the newer aren’t built as well. I am a stern and jjp fan but not a Chicago Gaming Fan. I must say however the newer sterns are built in the disposable world. I don’t understand the NODE board or the lack of protections compared even to the prior Stern’s. I am highly concerned on this after they are a few years old.

    Also I don’t leave games on if not home. I had smoke start in my STTNG in the back back back from a LED going bad. Yes led. Burned that circuit wiring before blowing the fuse. The arc fault did not trip. I traced to the exact led. It created a direct short. Worked for two years perfect.

    #89 85 days ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    The house I grew up in had active Knob & Tube wiring until my dad rewired the house in the late '60's.

    I only got rid of my last "run" of knob and tube 3 years ago.

    #90 85 days ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Also designed to be in a landfill in 3-5 years as well, I'm sure none of the manufactures thought any would be around 50+ years in some cases.
    In my business I have seen too many things catch fire for "no reason" I'm in the better safe than sorry camp. One guy on a Mopar board just lost his garage with cars in it last year due to a cordless battery pack charger burning while he was out.

    I just got off my lazy butt and unplugged my cordless battery pack that has been charging a battery for a week! Thanks for the wake up call.

    #91 85 days ago
    Quoted from PinballSTAR:

    Can't make this shit up...

    Holy shit that is the best post I have read in a month. So freaking funny. Best interactive topper ever...

    #92 85 days ago
    Quoted from guard:

    ....there can be fire. Poor Sinbad was just airtight enough to burn like a woodstove, not much flame but incredible heat. Melted my stereo, fridge, and TV.[quoted image][quoted image]

    Did you ever find the cause or had an idea of the culprit, Little transformer possibly?

    #93 85 days ago
    Quoted from Onwallst:

    I have 26 games, plus arcade games and a dynamo air hockey. Our house is built in 2016 and I am running full ARC fault circuit breakers. I have zero issues of them tripping my games as everyone says “those games will trip those” you neeed to remove them. If it is tripping there is a problem. It is possible they can but most likely a bad Game will do it and it will save my house. I also have full surge protection for every game. I do have more concern on the newer games than the older as the newer aren’t built as well. I am a stern and jjp fan but not a Chicago Gaming Fan. I must say however the newer sterns are built in the disposable world. I don’t understand the NODE board or the lack of protections compared even to the prior Stern’s. I am highly concerned on this after they are a few years old.
    Also I don’t leave games on if not home. I had smoke start in my STTNG in the back back back from a LED going bad. Yes led. Burned that circuit wiring before blowing the fuse. The arc fault did not trip. I traced to the exact led. It created a direct short. Worked for two years perfect.

    I don't think Arc fault breakers would work on detecting a fault on any device that has a fault associated with a secondary winding of a transformer in that device.

    #94 85 days ago

    So let's all remove the shakers out of our machines then.

    #95 85 days ago

    Funny you should mention that, my MM has a shaker... wonder if that caused my bulb holder to Arc Fault and cause the fire.

    #96 84 days ago
    Quoted from pinballplusMN:

    Did you ever find the cause or had an idea of the culprit, Little transformer possibly?

    Sorry, nothing to do with the game. Totally my stupidy.......that was just in reference to someone saying too airtight to burn. They'll burn but with lots of heat instead of flame.

    #97 84 days ago

    The thought of a 6v circuit such as a bulb or bulb holder having an arc fault seems impossible to me. How would 6v burn like a spark plug across a gap? I was in TV repair for 34yrs and we would see this once in a while. It was called carbon arc in the business, and would happen usually on very high voltage areas only, and usually caused by liquid getting spilled inside the set. Worry not guys, your game is not going to have an arc fault and start on fire, trust me.

    #98 84 days ago
    Quoted from Ronkz650:

    The thought of a 6v circuit such as a bulb or bulb holder having an arc fault seems impossible to me. How would 6v burn like a spark plug across a gap? I was in TV repair for 34yrs and we would see this once in a while. It was called carbon arc in the business, and would happen usually on very high voltage areas only, and usually caused by liquid getting spilled inside the set. Worry not guys, your game is not going to have an arc fault and start on fire, trust me.

    What if a stupid drunk buddy spills his beer on your pin?

    #99 84 days ago

    I feel like that cat is disappointed in me

    Not angry, just disappointed

    #100 84 days ago
    Quoted from Ronkz650:

    game is not going to have an arc fault and start on fire, trust me.

    Yep guys trust him.... He knows best

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