(Topic ID: 205331)

Hyperball settings display

By PinballRusch

6 years ago


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  • 26 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by 5280wzrd
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    #1 6 years ago

    Bought a hyperball yesterday and just finished fixing a few things. I found a post to make the gameplay a little less difficult but I can’t seem to get the setting buttons (the three coin door buttons) to do anything.
    The backglass cycles through a complete display character of all of one numbers 0-9. The display is all 1’s for player one and two for every display or all 2’s 3’s etc as you push the cycle button.
    The center display on the playfield is not functioning correctly as it is missing some segments. You can figure out what is saying by using the other segments. However, those segments are not displaying anything that makes sense in the settings mode.

    So two questions:
    1. Am I doing something with the settings wrong? I don’t have a manual but something seems jacked.
    2. I see there are entire boards that run the display available. Is that where I’m headed? Would that potentially fix everything if the display itself is fine?
    https://ksarcade.net/williams-hyperball-controller-driver-5763-09724-00.html

    #2 6 years ago

    Post a YT video of the behavior.
    That will help guide answers.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #3 6 years ago

    Family night last night so didn’t have a chance to make a video yet.
    The adjustment options (coin door buttons) operation seemed to be “normal” last night. Settings appeared to cycle the right way this time.
    The center playfield display is still jacked though. Here’s an image of the missing segments. It should say WILLIAMS. And that first character (0) never seems to change.
    I’ll check the coin door adjustment stuff again and make a video tonight if it’s still messed up.

    6B95B7D6-C0D2-4237-B1A9-49FD79C432F0 (resized).jpeg6B95B7D6-C0D2-4237-B1A9-49FD79C432F0 (resized).jpeg

    #4 6 years ago

    Here is the link to the video of the issues I’m having.

    #5 6 years ago

    The behavior shown in the video is normal.
    You aren't interpreting the results in the proper context.
    That's display test you are looking at.
    Once you enter test, display test starts.
    The "advance" button will cause the next number to be displayed.
    The center "auto/manual" button causes the test to automatically advance to the next number.
    You'll need to press the test button again to advance to the next test.

    See: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_3_-_7#Built_In_Diagnostics for an explanation.

    It would be useful to show the PF display during this display test.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #6 6 years ago

    Alright, here’s another video of the display tests.

    I got into the settings tonight but am still unsure how I did it. Seems like if there is a score in Player 1 score display, it allows me to cycle through the adjustments and if there is a “00” in player 1 score display, it goes into the display test.

    Anyhow, I’m hoping this video helps determine what is going on with the board/playfield display.

    Thanks everyone!

    #7 6 years ago

    I think I may have derailed my own post... part of my legit A.D.D. issues.

    Anyhow, the main question mark is the playfield display segments.

    The previous owner said he thought it was likely the board chips that need to be cut out and replaced but he wasn’t 100% sure the actual display wasn’t bad. So I’m just looking for some validation on what I should go after.

    The display for this game on K’s is about $170. A new board is about the same. Don’t want to buy both if I don’t have to or I’ll end up with a super expensive Hyperball.

    #8 6 years ago
    Quoted from PinballRusch:

    ... I don’t have a manual but something seems jacked.....

    I would go for a manual before anything else (might find a PDF version online, IPDB or elsewhere).
    Perhaps invest twenty bucks in a digital logic probe. That would give you some tools to track down the problem.

    Most likely a problem upstream from the 12 digit display. The alphanumeric display board does not have any extra electronics (no chips to go bad).
    Could be bad connections, very common to have bad solder at header pins. Check the driver board, 2J6 2J8 2J10 2J11, and on the display.
    They put an extra PIA chip on the driver board to help drive the alphanumeric display. If your PIA chips are socketed you can try moving them around, or putting a fresh 6821 in at IC12.
    You may be able to find a board repair, or a display, for less.

    #9 6 years ago

    My guess is that the driver board PIA (6821) or UDN7180 or UDN6184 has failed.
    I have a few of those around here for repairs like this.

    Another issue with HB are the optos under the swing targets. Several of them on the hyperball I bought were inop.

    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #10 6 years ago

    I can repair the board if that's the issue. I can also test the display in my HB.
    If you want to pack them up and send them to me, I can take care of that.
    See the contact link, below.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    1 week later
    #11 6 years ago

    Alright, after much research and waiting for parts to arrive via Amazon, I have my QuikChip remover, solder wick, and DIP IC sockets on hand.
    I’m going to be on a work trip tomorrow and hope to get this done in the hotel room where there are no distractions. I also plan to remove the display resistors and test them on the meter to see if they are still in range.
    Then I will start playing the “swap it out” game to see if I can isolate any bad chips.

    Any other things I should check while I have this board out regarding the display in the playfield?

    #12 6 years ago

    Status update:
    I got all the sockets installed. That took just short of forever! Much praise to you guys that do board repairs. I’ll swap you out for drywall work any day!

    I’m still at the hotel (turning in late), but we’ll see if I did this right tomorrow when I get home and reinstall... if the display works at least as good as when I started.

    All resistors checked out as well on the meter. I used this slick tool here at the link below to save on doing all the math.
    http://www.dannyg.com/examples/res2/resistor.htm

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    #13 6 years ago

    Reinstalled the board and thankfully, everything still worked as it previously did.

    While I was in Kansas City, I stopped at Electronics Supply Company (4100 Main St.) to see if they had any chips for this area. They only had the F4069UBPC (QM8113) which was replaced by NTE4069. They were only 82 cents each. That didn’t change anything on the display.
    Then I swapped the UDN6118A-1 chips (pointing to them in the photo) and saw a definite change in the display. I see those are available on Marco so I’m going to get those on order. Could it be just that easy?

    image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

    #14 6 years ago
    Quoted from PinballRusch:

    I’ll swap you out for drywall work any day!

    I'll take you up on that. I can't stand to work on drywall. I suck at it.

    Quoted from PinballRusch:

    Could it be just that easy?

    It could be. You can test the 6118s and the 7180s. Scroll down a little from here:
    http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_3_-_7#System_3-6_Master_Display_Driver_Boards

    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #15 6 years ago

    I seriously hope I don’t need the UDN7180A as that is the only one I can’t find new! All the others I have located, but have not purchased simply because I don’t want a bunch of $8 chips sitting around that I don’t need. However, I did order three of the UDN6118A chips from Marco. I only did this because when I put one of the new F4069UBPC chips in to test, I smashed one of the legs and when I tried to straighten it, the dang thing broke off. Like it was made of tin foil. Thankful that was only an 82 cent chip I bought in a store (no shipping) so I only beat myself up for about 20 minutes for being stupid. The chips I think should fix it are due here Tuesday. I’ll be sure to update the thread with the results.

    #16 6 years ago

    It's always best to do what you can to test the part before you go through the trouble of removing part.
    If you have a DMM, it's an easy test to perform.

    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #17 6 years ago

    Chris, I’m not up to speed on the abbreviations yet (but getting there).
    Is DMM= digital multimeter?
    I have one of those and looked up a bunch of You tube videos on how to check the IC chips. I never figured out how to do it with two leads. I saw another tool with a red/yellow/green light but it looks like I need to understand some higher details in the schematic to make that tool useful.

    If there is a simple video or diagram on how to check IC’s with my meter, I’d love to learn. Any links or photos would be greatly appreciated.

    #18 6 years ago
    Quoted from PinballRusch:

    Is DMM= digital multimeter?

    Yes. (From a most vacant HB owner/lurker. )

    #19 6 years ago

    Chips arrived a day early!
    Good news is that it fixed an issue.

    Bad news is that there was another issue!

    I can clearly see that the missing segments are driven by one of the UDN7180A-5 chips and one of mine is bad. I can now easily see this now that the first issue is corrected. One of the photos shows the segments that were previously missing.

    Where can I order? I had two electronics stores come up empty handed and Marco doesn’t have them either. Anyone have one in a scrap board they might be willing to send me?

    image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

    image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

    #20 6 years ago

    After posting this to the Iowa pinball Facebook site... about 30 seconds later someone sent me to this link I didn’t know about and I ordered two of the chips I need.

    Man do I love this pinball community of people because you all are so helpful.

    #21 6 years ago

    Test procedure:
    http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_3_-_7#System_3-6_Master_Display_Driver_Boards

    Scroll down just a bit from this link. There is a drawing of a 6118/7180 that will guide you.

    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

    #22 6 years ago

    Thanks for the confirmation in the above thread. I received two UDN7180A chips in the mail today from Action Pinball. It only took the one chip to do it and it’s all fixed!
    This is the first time I can see what the display says and there is a heck of a lot more to the game when you can read the playfield instructions.

    As luck would have it, when I pressed the start button to play my first game, the ball auger was dead! My heart sank. I checked connectors and fuses and everything was fine. Then I started taking the thing apart and after the “catch pan” was removed I saw the problem. One of the soldered wires that powers the auger motor had broken off. A quick solder job and the game is up to 100% for the first time. A real sense of accomplishment here and thanks to the help of you folks that offered up your advice.
    Thanks again!!

    image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

    #23 6 years ago

    Nice. Pick up some of Cliffy's colored post sleeves and really dress it up!
    http://www.passionforpinball.com/colorpost2/HBALL_007.jpg
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #24 6 years ago

    Those colored pegs are slick. Where did the H-T “drop door” decals come from? I’ve never seen those anywhere. Mine are just black.

    1 week later
    #25 6 years ago

    Link to the video of how I fixed my display. Live results!

    #26 6 years ago
    Quoted from PinballRusch:

    Where did the H-T “drop door” decals come from? I’ve never seen those anywhere. Mine are just black.

    I restored the art and had some printed a few years ago. If your interested, let me know PM me.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hyperball-opto-targets-sticker

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