(Topic ID: 144066)

Hyeperball Help Please!

By dustanltye1

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 24 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by Patofnaud
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 8 years ago

I recently attempted a repair on a Williams Hyperball.....What was I thinking lol. My problem is the ball lift motor is not working, when the time for it to come on comes it just hums and vibrates. I have check power going to motor and have 120V . Then I took the motor out and hooked it up to a 120v table power supply I have and it runs great. I am wondering if the power is not switching or alternating just applying straight 120v not alternating. I am I crazy to think this or if I am thinking right what would cause this? The motor power switching board? I read read voltage to motor and get 120v but if I measure each pin seperate I get 80v one one and 40v on another I am lost here. Thanks so much for any and all help. it is greatly appreciated.

#2 8 years ago

Perhaps the motor or auger is getting hung up on something while installed.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#3 8 years ago

Chris thanks for the reply. I already tested that and took the motor out of the auger and hooked it up and still humming and turns slowly...gets warm quick. when no power applied motor turns freely and smoothly. Works great in and out of auger and 120v powersupply

#4 8 years ago

Let's measure both AC and DC power as it's applied to the motor.
I can't think of a way offhand that DC power could be insinuating itself, but let's find out.
I remember that power enable circuit be a PITA.
The MJ10000 on the power board is tough to find, but an MJ10001 can be substituted.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#5 8 years ago

I can torn meter to AC and get 125V with a lead on each side of the motor. If I take one lead to the terminal on the motor and and other lead to ground I get 80V AC and do the same on the other terminal to ground I get 45V AC. Not really showing anything on DC.

#6 8 years ago

You won't get any useful info out of measuring either side of that AC motor supply to ground. So long as you have >110VAC on the motor terminals, that's fine. It sounds most like a mechanical blockage, as Chris says. Hyperball seems to do this all the time, random bits of crap get stuck in the auger and aren't obvious until you look closely. If you've pulled it all apart, that should have made it obvious, but perhaps the auger is misaligned, or something nearby is damaged/bent/broken...

#7 8 years ago
Quoted from falco:

but perhaps the auger is misaligned, or something nearby is damaged/bent/broken...

That would be my guess. Especially if it works on the bench. That circuit is basic power, control, motor. If in the machine your getting 120vac to the motor when its time to run, but it hums, its bound.

If you were not getting 120vac, then you'd be looking at the control board.

You also may want to edit the title of the base post. I had to think twice what a 'Hyeperball' was.

#8 8 years ago

I am getting 125V off of the board and it will hum and buzz and turn a little but I can hook it straight a to a wall outlet and get it to run perfectly still in place and switch back to board power and back to buzzing and humming. the diffrence in power though is with a wall outlet if you hook a meter to one blade of the outlet and the other lead to ground you get 120v and you put lead in other which is the neutral and then hook other lead to ground you get zero, but on the board you get 85v if you hook one lead to ground and other to one pin on the board and 40v if you hook to the other pin and then to ground.

#9 8 years ago

Does the game's plug have all three prongs?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.nt/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#10 8 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Does the game's plug have all three prongs?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.nt/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

No for the ball feed motor there is only 2 plugs with 2 wires running to the motor.

#12 8 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Sorry, I meant the wall plugs.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

Oh, Yes it does. Thanks

#13 8 years ago

Mine will make noise but will not lift the balls on occasion. I usually have to turn the machine off and then back on again and it is fine. It seems to do this every now and then.

#14 8 years ago

To clarify,

Extension cord on motor, motor plugged in wall it runs clean?

Motor connected to motor control board and NOT in machine it hums?

Or it hums only when mounted under the lift trough?

#15 8 years ago
Quoted from Patofnaud:

To clarify,
Extension cord on motor, motor plugged in wall it runs clean?
Motor connected to motor control board and NOT in machine it hums?
Or it hums only when mounted under the lift trough?

Can leave motor in place attached to auger and trough hooked up to wall runs perfect, leave in same place and run off boards it hums and turns very slowly if any at all and heats up quickly.

#16 8 years ago

Thank you guys so much for taking the time to try to help me figure this out!

#17 8 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

The MJ10000 on the power board is tough to find, but an MJ10001 can be substituted.

Unfortunately this....

One last check, with your meter on AC one lead on one side motor, on on the other (not ground) a good reading will be ~120vac, my guess is you only have about half of that due to a bad motor control, hence the heat and crawling motor.

If you have a manual/prints look at "Power Wiring Diagram" page 15, you get 120vac in on Pin 1 and 2 of J1, through a fuse to a triac that they use to switch that AC on and off to run the motor. The Switched AC is pins 1 and 2 of J4. There is no wave shaping or bridge rectifying, just a triac switch. So if you get 120 in, but not 120 out it is either the switch or the signal to turn the switch on that is the problem.

Verify input is good, then you most likely need the triac.

#18 8 years ago
Quoted from Patofnaud:

Unfortunately this....
One last check, with your meter on AC one lead on one side motor, on on the other (not ground) a good reading will be ~120vac, my guess is you only have about half of that due to a bad motor control, hence the heat and crawling motor.

125v ac on the motor while humming and getting hot.

#19 8 years ago

I updated my text before you replied. )

120vac on the motor and not running when 120vac from the wall makes no sense unless you have no current. Or you are metering both sides of a break.

#20 8 years ago
Quoted from Patofnaud:

I updated my text before you replied. )
120vac on the motor and not running when 120vac from the wall makes no sense unless you have no current. Or you are metering both sides of a break.

I have not measured current yet, but what throws me with it is that each side of the motor running off othe the board is slit bettween 85v on one side and 40v on the other side. compared to wall voltage which applies 120v of alternating current to one side

#21 8 years ago

if that makes any sense lol

#22 8 years ago

You do not measure AC 'one side, other side' you measure between both sides.

I'm still leaning toward that triac. Too bad you weren't a 'yankee' and could come test in mine.

I think I actually have a spare control board, but the traic is bad.

Short of doing some creating testing on the motor board (you could verify input verses output without the motor), you may have to order a part and see.

#23 8 years ago
Quoted from Patofnaud:

You do not measure AC 'one side, other side' you measure between both sides.
I'm still leaning toward that triac. Too bad you weren't a 'yankee' and could come test in mine.
I think I actually have a spare control board, but the traic is bad.
Short of doing some creating testing on the motor board (you could verify input verses output without the motor), you may have to order a part and see.

Yea that would be nice. I am kind of torn what to do, just start replacing parts or the board and hopes that's the problem. I am a professor in electronic engineer tech at a community college and this one has me stumped. I have a ton of triacs and rectifiers laying around in our shop but none that are any where near compatible. That board is kind of a costly replacement too. I thought about studying the schematics and do some testing to find a 120v circuit that powers on only when the game is playing to run a 120v relay to run the motor and just bypassing the board all together. This machine was donated to our school for us to fix and sell for a fundraiser. We have gotten pretty decent at pinballs this is our 12th this year to come thru our shop.

#24 8 years ago

Well then! I can appreciate that. I am/was the Advisory Chair for the local trade schools electronics dept for longer than I can remember. Noble cause.

If you know enough, you could probably temporarily cut/desolder the triac out, and jumper the input to the output with a SPST switch, leave the trigger floating. If that works then it is just a matter of buying a triac or following that trigger circuit back.

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