Gottlieb pins were at their peak of quality in the mid 60s. Does that statement dis collectors with 70s Gottiebs? Ease up folks. Not every post is about you.

I couldn't agree more. This is me as well. I started a thread a week or so on that exact topic. I traded my RS for a HUO WoF, even though I knew going into the deal that I was not likely to ever like WoF more than RS. It's part of the sampling of games, playing and owning something new, that keeps my interest.

Fixed it for ya.

Fixed it for ya!

I had a HUO TSPP and I bought it because it looked really cool and I liked the theme. Even though it was an engineering marvel it didn't really do much for me so I sold it. I think the reason really great players like it is the depth. That depth may be what turned me off of it. I heard about all of the mini wizard modes and ultimate wizard mode but only ever saw the first one. For me maybe too much focus was spent on the depth and not super cool stuff for the average player. I still think its a good game and enjoy banging on it every once in a while.

As for my ACDC I'm really enjoying it. The layout is pretty simple and its fun to shoot. I may be able to see encore mode, I think it's within reach for me (then again maybe not.) will it stand the test of time? Ask me in a year. I do love ACDC music and I'm really enjoying the modes.

I would trade for a TSPP but if someone wanted to do the trade I would say and nice HUO machine plus 2500 for the ACDC. of course that may change over time.

I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't like WoF more. I really liked that game despite it's unfinished state.

Back to this original thread, $1500 to $2k + a TSPP for a premium is probably realistic.

As far as the games go, they're two of my all time favorites. Comparing the two:

AC/DC premium pro's vs TSPP:
much faster game
can play with friends
has a lot of unique stacking that can lead to big points
combo's and flow are great, has awesome bell
has a better soundtrack

TSPP pro's vs AC/DC:
deeper game with lots of mini wizard modes, lots of variety
has kind of a story that goes with it
very unique playfield with tough shots
has better callouts and humor

If I still had both of them, I'd probably play AC/DC more just because of the faster ball times. You can't go wrong with either though. They really play nothing like each other at all.

So funny, I literally just finished sending off a PM to someone else on this forum about WoF, and just told them that I'm liking it even more than I thought I would so far! Just love the unique game play, and the rules are very good.

What makes a pin a keeper? For me it's depth. TSPP is my current desert island pin, not because I'm a great player, to the contrary, I'm probably just average (for someone of my age, with a pinball heritage dating back to the 60s) I like a game I can rarely "win". LOTR fits that description as well. I had and liked SM quite a lot but was able to get super hero in a relatively short time.

How's the depth on ACDC? Never played one yet.

Thought this was a discussion between TSPP & ACDC??? Guess reading comprehension levels vary.

Different kind of game....If you like the Style that TSPP presents you then you may not like ACDC. Not really a mode style game. If you like shorter ball times like IM & Tron then ACDC may appeal to you.

LOTR is a keeper for me as well. I love the theme even though the movies bored me to death. Good shots. Love the modes.

ACDC Has a very unique rule set. The stack ability is one thing I love. I love BSD for the same reason. So far I've only made it through six songs but I've been busy at work lately. The bell is one of the most satisfying shots in pinball IMO. I hear pro players say encore is possibly the best wizard mode ever. I'll keep trying to get to it.

Am I the only one that likes both styles of games? Variety, baby! Sometimes I want to play 10 games in a row on AC/DC or Tron ...sometimes I like to hunker down w/ an epic romp on TSPP or LOTR.

Nope, I'm the same way. After I played a AC/DC I knew I'd have to I knuckle under and get it, I have LOTR since 03 as well and still enjoy it too.

Some people like variety. Some dont like stop & go style and prefer faster flowing games. If you have the space & cash to have 20+ games thats cool. I'll always keep it around 4-6 pins and games like TZ & TSPP would never get played.

That makes sense...if I had to whittle down to 6 games the majority would probably be Tron-esque....but I've got space so...

Then again even if I had 20+ games I still think TSPP would be on the outside looking in....

I do like some variety obviously (that's one reason that I go through pins so fast), but after being in the hobby for awhile now I definitely find myself gravitating towards the faster, shorter ball time pins. That doesn't mean that I still don't enjoy playing the longer ball time pins like LOTR or RS on occasion because I do. Those types of pins are still a lot of fun to me, but they don't give you the same type of adrenaline rush that pins like AC/DC, IM, and BSD can give you. Also, the longer ball time pins tend not to have that "just one more game" pull to them that the shorter ball time pins have.

Anyway, getting back to the topic of the OP, I should state with more specificity the reasons that I personally like AC/DC more than TSPP.

TSPP definitely has a *lot* going on. There is a ton of stuff to do on that pin, and Keefer's rules compliment the pin and theme very well. The first couple of weeks that I has TSPP I was enjoying it way more than I had in my prior experiences with it (and I had played it quite a bit, but it was always at various locations, not in the home environment). There are some aspects of the layout that I liked, including the idea of having to get the drop targets down in order to start Itchy and Scratchy MB. I liked the right ramp at first, as it was a good flowing shot, but man, I got to the point in a week or two that I could hit that shot 10 times in a row. zzzzz. I'm also a person that tends not to get too much enjoyment from mini play-fields, and on TSPP, you spend a lot of time up there because that is where you get couch MB and all of the TV awards, including one of the Wizard modes, Alien Invasion. Now, I will say that TSPP's mini play-field is one of the better ones out there, but still, I don't want to spend too much time playing mini pinball, and that's what happens on TSPP. You spend a lot less time on AC/DC's lower mini PF than you do TSPP's mini pf.

TSPP is also a lot of stop and go. Well, so it TZ, and that's still one of my favorite pins, but it just seems to work better on TZ for me personally. I think the TZ theme just fits pinball much better than The Simpsons does (and I'm a huge Simpsons fan).

TSPP is also a bit on the clunky side, especially shots like Otto.

AC/DC is a completely different style of pin. FAST. One of the fastest around. Fast is not a word that anyone would use to describe TSPP. Ball times are short on AC/DC, and you are pretty much constantly on your toes trying to prevent ball drains. Very little time to relax on AC/DC. Plenty of time to relax on TSPP. Flow is excellent on AC/DC. TSPP just isn't a great flowing pin, although the right ramp and orbits are ok. Hard to beat the Ritchie flow on AC/DC.

Like Robert, I was one of the people who criticized AC/DC when it was first released because of how the music played. I said "why not just put a boom box on top of the back box and play AC/DC while playing pinball for the same effect"? Well, that was wrong. The music is very well integrated into the pin, and plays a huge part in getting the blood pumping. Does it help that I love AC/DC's music? Of course it does.

So, two very different pins, which play completely differently, and it makes them hard to compare to each other. To me personally, AC/DC is just way more exciting to play. TSPP involves a more methodical approach, and didn't keep me coming back for more.

AC/DC can really kick you in the balls, make you cuss it out, and make you look like a pathetic player at times. But man, when you get things going, hit your shots, and collect a big song jackpot with 2x or 3x scoring going, you feel like a Wizard! At least until you press the start button again. And again...

Exactly!!!! I love fast pins like Tron, HS2, and F14, but I also LOVE deep and challenging pins like TSPP, TZ, and LOTR.

Trust me on this: Deep and challenging pins make you a better player.

For me, the recent "quick n dirtys" (IM, Avatar, Tron) made me a better player because of the way they attack you and keep you on your toes. I got much better at saving the ball off the tip of the flippers on seemingly STDM moments while playing these games.

Faster pins have definitely improved my flipper skills, but there's a great feeling I get from deeper pins after I plan out the shot in my head and it happens the way that I want it to be IMO.

TSPP HUO is a $4500.00 PIN

AC/DC Premium old run with cloudy window is a $5500.00 pin

AC/DC Premiums NIB were $5500.00 List 6 months ago. At the Allentown show I know someone bought one NIB for that

So non NIB AC/DC for a TSPP + $800.00 - $1000.00 is about right

You show me one place that sells the premiums for that amount. Just because one person gets that deal somewhere doesn't make it the standard price. I saw someone buy a MM once for $3800 i should be able to trade my funhouse for it....

Sounds like the typical trade offers I get:

"I want the high market value of my pin for the low market value of yours."

To me it's easier just to sell them for cash and use the money to buy what you want. Trades just give the other guy one more aspect to lowball you on.

TSPP V ACDC Premium.....

Hmmm, ACDC is not revolutionary in any way and wouldn't listen to ACDC music generally. Found TSSP fairly slow and feels dated now.

The thing about ACDC Premium is that it just comes together even if you don't previously like ACDC music. The drop targets have a real solid feel and sound as you hit them - best drop targets I have ever hit. It just makes you want to play, despite areas that could have been better.

So, not keen on the theme, don't think it is state of the art.........but, but, I WANT ONE

Calling someone a "jackass" is childish and immature. Grow up dude. Every time someone disagrees with you, you engage in personal attacks. Go back to RGP.

I understand some people don't like TSPP and think it's a crappy game. Just like some people think the Beatles were crap.

Suffice to say, we agree to disagree.

TSPP machines in my area HUO have been going anywhere from 3500-4200 tops and there have been several up for sale in the past few months. I think if you were trying to upgrade to an ACDC Premium, then you are going to have throw some cash in to the deal (2k or so). Good luck.

A routed TSPP just sold here for 4K in less than 1 hour.

A very nice HUO sold in Westchester NY for $4k a couple months ago. At the time I thought that might be high. Not anymore!

I would not add cash to my TSPP in this trade scenario. I don't see AC/DC retaining a value higher than TSPP in the long term.

highly doubt that since there are sooooo many TSPP machines out there. Good luck, you might
find some sucker though...

Time will tell but right now AC/DC Prem is still in production and selling well for about $6k...so, no one would trade an AC/DC Prem for a TSPP without requiring cash. A lot of the desirable Sterns have held their value and increased over their NIB prices (LOTR, TSPP, FGY, SM, POTC, IM) ...no reason AC/DC won't follow that trend.

Agreed! AC/DC is a keeper for years to come and once production stops (if it ever does) the prices will only go up.

AC/DC > TSPP (However, they are COMPLETELY different games)

Supply and demand. It all depends upon the production figures on these games. There were less than 7000 TSPPs made. The later-model Sterns are presumably made in much smaller batches... anyone know how many? Will there even be 4000 ACDCs made?

Sterns are holding their value, mainly IMO due to the fact that they haven't had any competition and they aren't producing as many as they used to. If we have more choices and options in the market, $6000 for what they're delivering right now might not seem like a good deal.

That being said, I'd like to have an AC/DC, but $6k is too high in this economic climate. If they could make them for $3-4k, they'd probably sell five times more. Can you realistically operate a $6000 game and make your money back in the timeframe that operators have traditionally done?

I think I have the words Supply and Demand etched into my brain now from Pinside...

why dont you sell your HUO TSPP.. get your money and buy an AC/DC..

Trading gets things muddled anyway..

If you leave the outlanes wide open in AC/DC, then Yes!!! LOL

Jack claims there were 10k TSPPs made.

Who cares? Spidey had a 4k-or-so run. IM has about 1.5k ...if the game is good, it will be desirable by collectors.

Choices schmoices. AC/DC is awesome. If you like AC/DC, it's double awesome. If I want an AC/DC game...what other choices are there? LOL. It delivers more than any of the WPC'95 games, IMO....and those are 10k+ in "new" condition. AC/DC Premium's a friggin' bargain in comparision.

What economic climate? If you're talking about pinball economy..again...it's a "deal". Restored AFM for 10k or a brand new AC/DC Prem for $6k?

They do, it's called a Pro. If you wanna spend less, get one of those.

Who's talking about operators? I think most of us here are collectors. Again...there's the Pro for operators who want a new pin on location.

No kidding!

Every time there is a discussion on prices/value and whether prices will go up or down etc., people always say it depends on "supply and demand". Then you will have others follow up by saying "yes, that's correct, it is supply and demand that will determine what the going rate will be". LOL. Yeah, no sh*t, Sherlock! So glad that people can state the (painfully) obvious and think they are smart by stating it.