hey all.. I have been chasing this issue since I have had the machine and had a couple of posts in this forum about it, but i have been troubleshooting this a bit and decided to start a new topic with a few videos so maybe someone can pinpoint me in the right direction..

Since I got the machine the hundreds unit never worked correctly. It always skipped and chattered a lot whenever scoring multiple 100 points aka 500 points or more.. like sometimes it would score 200 or 300 or just 100 .. you can see the unit struggling to keep up.. on the flip side when scoring 50 points on the Tens unit or 5000 on the Thousands unit, the points scored solid and never jumped or chattered and chimes were strong and precise for each point scored.. not so on the Hundreds unit. it would chatter like crazy and was always erratic..

So looking at this unit more closely this is what is happening..
whenever I close a 100 point relay ( rollover or pop bumper the unit locks on 90% of the time.. In the video I am just hitting the 100 point rollover but it happens with all the 100 point switches.. as you can see here...

As you can see the coil locks on almost every time the switch closes.. But what is interesting to me is that when i just close the M relay in the backbox to actuate the hundreds unit it never ever locks on.. as you can see here..

Given all this information I am thinking that there must be a switch on the playfield that is closed somewhere or a short in a wire maybe.. ? well I checked all the switches and nothing is closed that shouldent be as far as I can see, but here is the really interesting part, ( at least to my newbish self) when I actuate the rollover to cause the coil to lock on ( as see in video #1) I can then reach down and open the M relay to stop the hundreds unit coil from locking on.. as seen here..

so I am thinking that if it was a short or a closed switch somewhere I wouldn't be able to reset the M relay.. could I be right in my thinking about this? So if anyone could help me that would be great because I am really out of ideas on where to look.. I would just like to get the Hundreds unit scoring the way it should..

Oh and PS.. when I purchased the machine I noticed that someone stuck a shorter spring on the M relay than any of the others.,. I am guessing that this issue has been going on with the previous owner as well and they put a tighter spring on the M relay to try and help it close....

Thanks guys for any and all help... .

I have been looking through the schematics for anything that uses the 100 point relay.. The left and right pop bumpers and the two right and one left side rollover. Ive looked at the wires going to those switches back to the M relay and they seem fine.. but somehow the M relay is locking on when power is applied.. but from where? the schematic make it look pretty simplified.. maybe a short in the wire bundle itself?

Well Mark you did it again! With your help I found the issue. its the relay switch that I have blocked in the pic.. Its not the MAR-GR that is in your pic, but sure enough when I block this contact the unit works perfectly.. so now the question is.. how do I fix it? I tried adjusting the switch to make better contact when the relay closes, and I tried cleaning the contacts as well.. no bueno on either.. what do you think?

IMG_5453 (resized).JPG

yes your right one of them is maroon and green if I look real close.. and the other side of that switch has two yellow-blue-red wires connected to it.. so yes you are correct..

now the EOS switch you are talking about is there and has the mar-grn wire on one tab and two red-white wires on the other.. and it does open when the plunger is pulled to the top.. I tried blocking the EOS switch and it just made the coil get completely stuck and buzz.. so Im guessing my problem is somewhere in the middle of these two wires?

question.. if my problem goes completely away when I block the connection on the M relay, what will be the reality if I disconnect the wire from the switch itself as fix? will it cause other issues somewhere down the line?

Scratch that question.. I found out for myself.. removing either the red-blue-yellow wires or the maroon -green or both from the switch does not work.. but I just dont understand why.. if the switch is a NO switch and blocking the connection using a piece of paper works then why wouldn't just removing the wire from the switch work as well... isint it the same thing?

ok back to my problem at hand.. what would be the best way to now trace this issue between the EOS switch on the reel and the problem switch on the M relay?

Ok I feel REALLY REALLY DUMB right now. I was doing more troubleshooting this morning, and this is what I have found.

A piece folded paper between the switch in question DOES NOT fix the issue, however as you can see in my pic I posted above, the thicker emery board DOES fix the issue, or at least masks it. That is because the thicker emery board puts more pressure on the rear blade of the switch and creates a kind of spring effect to help the relay release. I can simulate this effect by just putting light pressure with my finger on the bottom of the relay as well to help it release ( like a more powerful spring ), and the problem is kind of solved, the coil on the score reel still skips every now and then when scoring 500 points but the relay and the score reel coil always release and never gets locked in the on position. .

This also I think answers my own question on why the NO switch when removed does not solve the problem. ( like I posted above.)

So given this new information, do you think it could be a issue with the relay or the coil in the relay itself? everything looks OK with the relay.. what should the omhs be when I test it?

yes the same coil as in all the other relays, I also replaced the spring with a new one that is for this relay that I bought when i first got the machine because I was anticipating dealing with this issue and knew the spring was not correct. no change with the new spring.. if anything its a little worse since it doesn't have the tension to pull the relay open when it gets stuck..

gonna do that right now.. will get back to you.. but im pretty sure it has power when its stuck because you can actually hear the hum.. but again if something was actually applying power would I be able to open the relay very easily with my finger like in the video i posted?

did this this morning.. blocking each NO switches with a piece of paper produces no change at all. the solder lugs are clean and are not touching or shorted..

im sure you are right that something is applying power but looking at each and every switch on the playfield nothing jumps out at me.. they all look good and function when they should. . how would you go about finding something like this? its like a needle in a haystack analogy..

ok here is a very interesting result from testing with my MM. Using the > 200v ac setting, when i actuate the 100 point switch on the playfield the coil gets voltage ( obviously) but then when it gets stuck there is 0 volts at the lugs.. while its stuck and the MM is reading 0 volts, if i press and hold the 100 point rollover switch on the playfield the MM reads around 26 volts, but as soon as I release the switch the coil reads 0 volts but is still in the stuck on position and that hum is coming from the stuck on score reel coil..

so given this testing I would say that there is no power being applied.. and that the M Relay is just sticking for some reason? would this be a correct assumption?

ok so when power is removed the relay was stuck closed.. turned the machine back on and as soon as I put one thin sheet of paper between the coil and the plate the problem is completely gone.. so should i just order a new coil and plate? also the coil is mounted the same as the others.. brass screw and all.

thanks, been researching demagnetizing. I taped it for now and will order a new plate tomorrow. Thanks for your help. its crazy how simple of a problem this was in the end..