(Topic ID: 16032)

HS2 Getaway is in the House (Multiball Bug)


By MrSanRamon

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 36 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by LongJohns
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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#1 7 years ago

The trade for my DH was done last week, and I brought the machine in from the garage on Saturday and gave it to my girlfriend for her Birthday.

While she was out in the afternoon, I was going up and down the street trying to find someone to help me carry it up the 3 steps to get it in the house...finally a found someone a block away.

She was surprised when she saw it and we played a few game before we went out to dinner. I'll do most anything to get her interested in playing a few games.

Sunday while I was playing it, I got the endless multiball bug...major bummer.

I'm running L2, and now have P7 & L3 on order.

What do others here use, or have used, as their ROM version?

Robert

#2 7 years ago

I've only encountered that when the ramp divertor is disabled while running L-1

-jon

#3 7 years ago

I've read that with version L1 you can burn out the supercharger driver board when more than 1 ball is in it.

Are you still using L1?

Robert

#4 7 years ago

Still using it. I've sent two or more pinballs into the supercharger more times than I can count, and it gets played more than any other pin I own. Prob has more than 40,000 plays over the last 5 yrs. no joke!

The SC driver board did blow a tip 102 transistor about 2 yrs ago, but it was the first time in the life of the game. I immediately replaced it, and not a hint of trouble since. So that's actually better than I would expect from those types of solenoids, regardless of software version.

Besides, I can't think of what the newer versions could do differently with that mech to make it fire less, or last longer with multiple ball action.

-jon

#5 7 years ago

I had the option to get a niiice one off route last year, shoulda, but it's still there
Someday, I miss playing it from time to time.

#6 7 years ago

Some ROM version assessment I found; anyone have any different or additional info?

(Sorry, can't figure out how to align the columns)

ROM REVISION ........................................... L1 L2 L5

Supercharger driver can fail when
more than 1 ball in supercharger.....................Y N N

2 state flippers ...........................................N N Y

Run The RED LIGHT display mode ...................Y Y N

Secret mania bug with forgotten ball-locks ......Y Y N

Endless multiball (FREE RIDE BUG) ....................? Y N

Red light mania to normal multiball shift bug ....N N Y

Multiple balls released from lock multi player) ........? N Y

Extra ball in video mode ....................N Y Y

Display Flicker in Supercharge Mode ...................Y N N

Supercharger raise and enable 1-2-3 ..................N Y Y

Supercharger enabled with 3 loops ...................Y N N

Standard generous free ride time ..................N Y Y

Robert

#7 7 years ago

I run L2 and love it. That multiball bug has happened only once in the 8 months I've owned the game.

#8 7 years ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

The trade for my DH was done last week, and I brought the machine in from the garage on Saturday and gave it to my girlfriend for her Birthday.
While she was out in the afternoon, I was going up and down the street trying to find someone to help me carry it up the 3 steps to get it in the house...finally a found someone a block away.
She was surprised when she saw it and we played a few game before we went out to dinner. I'll do most anything to get her interested in playing a few games.
Sunday while I was playing it, I got the endless multiball bug...major bummer.
I'm running L2, and now have P7 & L3 on order.
What do others here use, or have used, as their ROM version?
Robert

Does this only happen after you achieve multiball? Or is it continually spitting out balls from the beginning? Did the previous owner mention this issue? Did you do anything to the game since you got it? Tinkered with it, poked around? I hear the phrase a lot "it was working fine when I bought it, brought it home, and now all of a sudden....more detail? Just retracing some steps.

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from Tommi_Gunn:

Does this only happen after you achieve multiball?

Yes, I haven't played it enough to explain it well.

But If I remember correctly: I got burn rubber or the video of the girl looking into the car, then cycled the shifter up & down; then got multiball and the "free ride" lit...endless multiball.

Robert

#10 7 years ago

Could have an issue with one of your muiltball switches on the wire guide. Located on the right, under the metal housing. Check to see it they are properly adjusted. I had the same problem when I had mine. Bad problem to have and ignore for a long period of time since "free ride" is constantly flashing. Oh cool, multiball for 30 minutes. It causes issue with insert lifting due to the flasher heat (depending on what bulbs you're using and how close they are to that insert). Could be an issue, just fyi.

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from Tommi_Gunn:

Could have an issue with one of your muiltball switches on the wire guide. Located on the right, under the metal housing. Check to see it they are properly adjusted.

Didn't know this, thanks.

By properly adjusted you mean "activates"?

What ROM are you using?

Robert

#12 7 years ago

I don't remember which version I had. My HS2 was short lived. I liked HS so much I thought it would compliment it. I shopped it out, tuned it up, and was just frustrated with the final outcome. I dialed it in 100% and I was hoping it would be better. I has a lot of design issues. The supercharger and shifting is cool, but that was the highlight for me. It's one of those games that needs to be clear coated. The shots are too tight, because everything is designed around the monster supercharger and it takes up a lot of real estate. The amount of post hits are crazy. I couldn't wait to sell it. But that's just me, and everyone is different.

Check switches 74,75,76 and 78. I had issues with all of these causing intermittent multiball issues. After I dialed them in, it went away. Load the balls in by hand, make sure they constantly registering, and adjust if necessary. Watch that "free ride insert" (#906 flasher) if using an incandescent bulb. Just pull it back so it's not pressed against it. Or you can go with leds if you haven't done so. I'm not a fan of that route, but to each his own.

At least this will give you a starting point.

#13 7 years ago
Quoted from Tommi_Gunn:

At least this will give a starting point.

Thanks...I'll take a look at these switches.

There is apparently a multiball bug, in L2, not sure how that's related.

Thanks.

Robert

#14 7 years ago

I just got the multiball bug once when I was playing it last week. First time ever. I did get GC on it but I really don't consider it earned. ;-P

#15 7 years ago

I've had a Getaway for a few weeks running the P-7 ROMs and have never had the Free Ride bug.

One thing I have noticed is that the inserts on the inlanes never light. I think they are for 2x RPM and something else. Maybe this is because I put it in tournament mode?

I will say I kinda bought this game because it happened to be available, wasn't really looking for one. I like it wayy more than I thought I would. I play it 2x as much as the TZ and RBION next to it.

#16 7 years ago
Quoted from pinb0t:

I've had a Getaway for a few weeks running the P-7 ROMs and have never had the Free Ride bug.
One thing I have noticed is that the inserts on the inlanes never light. I think they are for 2x RPM and something else. Maybe this is because I put it in tournament mode?
I will say I kinda bought this game because it happened to be available, wasn't really looking for one. I like it wayy more than I thought I would. I play it 2x as much as the TZ and RBION next to it.

I assume you already checked the bulbs and under the playfield connections for those lamps. If so, it couple be a lamp matrix issue with J137 or J133. Reseat, push in the wires, or replace the connector. Look for cracked solder joints board connection. Also, could be Q97 (matrix column) or Q90 (matrix row) if several lamps are out.

#17 7 years ago
Quoted from Tommi_Gunn:

I assume you already checked the bulbs and under the playfield connections for those lamps. If so, it couple be a lamp matrix issue with J137 or J133. Reseat, push in the wires, or replace the connector. Look for cracked solder joints board connection. Also, could be Q97 (matrix column) or Q90 (matrix row) if several lamps are out.

Thanks for the tip. Forgot to mention that they do work in attract mode, so the matrix seems OK. I need to see if they are actually awarding the values. Anyone know what turns those lights on anyway?

#18 7 years ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

Red light mania to normal multiball shift bug ? ? Y

The answer to your ?s here is N N.
However, the bug is slightly mislabeled, even though that is the generally-seen manifestation. The bug is that every 3rd ball arrival into the lockup starts multiball. So normally what happens is people have 1 or 2 balls locked, then start RLM. RLM runs normally, you get a jackpot. If you had 2 balls locked, then the arrival of the jackpot ball restarts multiball (complete with ball saver (even for multiball 2+), relaunching drained ball(s), and making light jackpot lit (i.e. 20 loops to light jackpot)). If you had 1 ball locked, then you can go for the RLM super (augmented to 100M) after RLM jackpot. If you make the super shot, then at that point that will be the third arrival, and multiball will restart. With 0 balls locked, you can get jackpot-super-super then multiball restarts.
Similarly, you could have one ball locked, get a jackpot during RLM, light lock again, lock 1 ball, multiball starts. Confused yet? It's easy for me because I understand exactly why the bug is there.
An unlisted bug is "GAME RESTART WORKS," which is the adjustment that handles what the start button does. FT was the first game with this adjustment, and I can't remember if HS2 had it from day 1 or it didn't get added until L-5. At any rate, the bug is that because the car-starting noises play when you push the button in, the game doesn't start until the button is RELEASED. The standard game start logic checks to see if the button is held in, which obviously it can never be, so Game Restart=SLOW will never work.

#19 7 years ago

MrSanRamon's table is priceless. I can't tell how many times questions have come up about which ROM is best for HS2 and the best I can say is "I've read a bunch of opinions, and the consensus is that L-2 is the least buggy."

The RLM bug that is understood only by pinball_keefer is the kicker for me, and is the main reason I run L-2. It can seriously affect a good game. The Secret Mania bug I avoid by not starting Secret Mania, and the endless multiball, I've only seen once.

#20 7 years ago
Quoted from pinball_keefer:

However, the bug is slightly mislabeled

Keith, thanks for the response...I understand what you are saying.

While "multiball shift bug" wasn't my label, I may well have come up with the same name if I was asked.

I was thinking about the endless multiball in the shower, where I generally do my best analytical work. The code as written surely doesn't have a "if A & B, then run endless mutliball" line. So the deconstruction of the code to somehow fix the branch/set of occurrences that causes the anomaly is going to be difficult. But it appears that you understand how the programing as it is currently written causes this to occur; as you would being programing is your day job.

Quoted from pinball_keefer:

I can't remember if HS2 had it from day 1 or it didn't get added until L-5...the bug is that because the car-starting noises play when you push the button in...so Game Restart=SLOW will never work

I have been thinking about this for awhile this morning while drinking coffee; and am still not sure if I completely understand what you mean. If you read this post can you elaborate some.

Is it possible that this bug (Restart=SLOW will never work) could get fixed sometime in the future?

Anyway, thanks for making the post, and explaining how the programing sequence works.

Robert

#21 7 years ago

Being an embedded software guy myself, I would guess that the endless multiball is due to an overflowing timer, but that's just a wild guess. Something like the below psuedocode is a common problem:

[CODE]
//timer is freerunning 16 bit counter
if(multiball_starting)
{
multiball_start_time = timer;
free_ride = TRUE;
}

if(timer > (multiball_start_time + free_ride_time))
{
free_ride = FALSE;
}
[/CODE]

The bug occurs when (multiball_start_time + free_ride_time) is greater than the max value of timer (65535 if it's an unsigned 16 bit value).

Again, this is all just theoretical.

#22 7 years ago
Quoted from herg:

Being an embedded software guy myself,

It's too bad that the bugs in the various games can't be fixed; or rules changed to make more balanced scoring, HSII is just one example.

But I suppose that there is a lot of work to do a fix, and afterwards there is essentially no reward (other than kudos), as someone else just takes the new ROM and copies and sells it.

Robert

#23 7 years ago

This has happened twice to me on P-7 so I think it might be a bug. Two balls locked - red light lit. I start Red Line Mania. When RLM is over, the ramp does not lower to allow multiball to start. On the next ball it works fine.

#24 7 years ago

It's not about the reward for me. If I had access to source code, I'd be on it in a heartbeat. Starting with a ROM image, disassembling, and trying to decipher, is a whole different ballpark, though.

#25 7 years ago
Quoted from herg:

It's not about the reward for me.

The best part about this hobby, are the people that love pinball and want to contribute and make it better.

Robert

9 months later
#26 6 years ago

I know this is an old thread, but I was reading through it looking for info about the different ROMs.

Just in case anyone's wondering, the endless Free Ride bug actually isn't endless. It lasts for 256 seconds. Obviously four minutes is still an inconvenience, but if you really have a good game going that you don't want to just give up, you can always wait it out.

10 months later
#28 5 years ago

(OT) How did you link to a specific post? I've wanted to do this in the past but could never figure out how to get the post number.

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from yonkiman:

(OT) How did you link to a specific post? I've wanted to do this in the past but could never figure out how to get the post number.

One way is to 'quote' the original post - it tells you the post number (blockquote cite="#1352649 in this case).

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from DeLorean_Rider:

It lasts for 256 seconds.

If this is accurate, it makes it sound even more like a timer rollover problem. An 8-bit counter would roll over at 256 seconds.

Quoted from yonkiman:

(OT) How did you link to a specific post? I've wanted to do this in the past but could never figure out how to get the post number.

Above the post is a small link (#).

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from LongJohns:

One way is to 'quote' the original post - it tells you the post number (blockquote cite="#1352649 in this case).

Thanks - I figured that out a minute after I posted this question. How did I NOT notice when I was asking?

Would still be pretty convenient if there was a button that gave you a link to whatever particular post you were looking at...

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from herg:

Above the post is a small link (#).

DOUBLE !!!! I always thought that was part of the "QUOTE" link! Thanks!

1 week later
#33 5 years ago
Quoted from pinb0t:

I've had a Getaway for a few weeks running the P-7 ROMs and have never had the Free Ride bug.
One thing I have noticed is that the inserts on the inlanes never light. I think they are for 2x RPM and something else. Maybe this is because I put it in tournament mode?
I will say I kinda bought this game because it happened to be available, wasn't really looking for one. I like it wayy more than I thought I would. I play it 2x as much as the TZ and RBION next to it.

Know this is old thread, but I installed P-7 this afternoon just to see how it played. I notices same thing. the inlane 2X RMP and Freeway lights never come on in the game. This must be a bug of some kind in the software. Both lamps light in attract mode and they work o.k. in the L-5 software I was running.

#34 5 years ago

Same here. I would say P-7 is "incomplete". Played it for a while but settled on L-2 (of L-1, L-2, and P-7 - haven't tried L-5).

#35 5 years ago

So far I have run L-2, L-5 and now P-7 on my Getaway. I probably will go back to L-5. I did not experience the 256 second "endless" multiball bug when L-2 was installed but that is probably just random. I have a league play, so probably stick with L-5.

I also experienced situation where lock lights are lit but the the ramp does not lower for a while, so you cannot lock balls for multiball until the ramp eventually lowers. I cannot remember which version this happens on or the conditions leading up to it. The other issue I have is balls get caught under the rear lift ramp, especially on slow moving balls and sometimes the ball will not get free until i shoot another ball up there or if it is the last ball, the game eventually goes into a ball search, lifts the ramp, and the ball the slowly dribbles out thru the pop bumpers. This is costly because the timer for the mode runs while this is going. If someone knows a fix for this I would appreciate hearing about it. The lift ramp in Getaway seems troublesome in these ways.

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from Chet:

So far I have run L-2, L-5 and now P-7 on my Getaway. I probably will go back to L-5. I did not experience the 256 second "endless" multiball bug when L-2 was installed but that is probably just random. I have a league play, so probably stick with L-5.
I also experienced situation where lock lights are lit but the the ramp does not lower for a while, so you cannot lock balls for multiball until the ramp eventually lowers. I cannot remember which version this happens on or the conditions leading up to it. The other issue I have is balls get caught under the rear lift ramp, especially on slow moving balls and sometimes the ball will not get free until i shoot another ball up there or if it is the last ball, the game eventually goes into a ball search, lifts the ramp, and the ball the slowly dribbles out thru the pop bumpers. This is costly because the timer for the mode runs while this is going. If someone knows a fix for this I would appreciate hearing about it. The lift ramp in Getaway seems troublesome in these ways.

I have had the ramp lifting problem on mine and it was a bad connection at the driver board - sorry I don't recall which connector is was off hand.

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