Nolan Bushnell invented Atari. The end.

For a long time pinball only had to compete against other games such as shooting games and mechanical games that didn't often play real well or were part of a packaged deal that brought people into arcades that had very many pinball machines. The other games were quite mechanical and required work to keep working and were often heavy and not great competition against pins.
With solid state coming in and creative games and licenses sales boomed for awhile in the 70's and early 80's. However, once Pacman and many other video games that were incredibly popular came out, pinball really declined and Williams almost closed down around '84. But made a great comeback with new technology and creative designers, etc.

Once video games were released into arcades and many places on route, pins became seen less and less in laundromats, arcades, gas stations and many other places that you almost never see them now. Pins used to be seen in many many more places including bars bus and train stations, airports and places that now people use cell phones, Ipads and Ipods. Basically places people might be bored but could play a pin to have some fun. I even remember a Walmart having pins when you walked into the front. Then video games became available on home consoles, computers, the internet etc and so on route games of any type became less.
Pins take up much more room and require working on to keep switches, moving parts and other things working. Joysticks and monitors can die on video games but often those take years before they are a problem. So ops often can place a video game on route and hardly have to touch it. Also now less and less people have ever played a pinball or grew up playing them much and really loving them. This concerns me for the long term future of the industry.
In the early 90's pins were selling well including Addams Family selling over 21,000. But in just a few short years many incredible games weren't selling hardly at all such as MM, CC, CQ, and many others. Bally/Williams shut down their pinball division in '99 to get much more profits with slot machines, Gottlieb died 3 years earlier and Stern was the only pin maker left.
I give Gary Stern and the workers there tons and tons of kudos for surviving and keeping pinball going. Whatever one thinks of Stern they do deserve much credit for that! However, Stern hasn't taken the technology forward very much for being the only manufacturer until JJP came in and starting selling in 2013. Stern still uses DMD's while JJP and the boutique companies are using other and more advanced technology. With a few exceptions new pin prices are now incredibly expensive and why should ops pay $8K or more for an LE when they can get the basic pin for less? Also their are still many Bally/Williams games on route making fair money and so why buy a new and more expensive pin? This actually became a problem for Bally/Williams in that many ops saw no reason to buy new pins in the 90's when their older pins were still doing okay on route. Redemption or videos games are about all I ever see in arcades now. Sometimes there's one sad dirty not working well pin which is no fun to play and so the video or redemption games get played and the pins is ignored.

IMO

While it may not be possible. One thing I'd like to see is community rule mods.

What I mean, in computer games like Portal, the code is open so that people can modify or make new rules (levels) to share.

If this were possible in pinball such things as creating a skill shot or two for Iron Man, or having a SOS type mode for XM where you can complete modes that were started but not finished (within a SOS type mini wizard mode). Add a mode to Tron etc..

All the way up to complete re-write of code for example if someone wanted to re-do SM code completely so that it plays more like IM or LotR.

Whatever is possible with code, bug fixes, Easter eggs, Zany 'Bizarro World' rules.

Have the ability to share these rules or even have the ability to contract out a specific set of rules if you are not capable of the code yourself.

Meaning if there was a good code team you want a specific rule rewrite you could crowd source some funds. If enough people were willing to throw in $50 or whatever was required you could get a whole new experience without buying a whole new pin.

Video games killed the Pinball star.

In my mind, and in my car, we can't rewind, we've gone too far.

Do you know what the first video played on MTV was?

Would you like a wall of text that says 'console games created cheaper, more accessible entertainment?' Not sure why we're upset w/ Wolfmarsh here for stating the obvious when Grys said the same thing.

I don't think you do, lol.

I'm talking about is just a code update such as UBS update to existing hardware. We have somewhat with sound or image hack with SAM but nothing to code can't add the most simple code such as allow IM to have a skill shot like Tron.

IMO allowing a game to utilize more rules would help justify the cost more and allow people to enjoy their games longer.

Man...just.......god.

/facepalm.

I can't post anything more than this civilly. Someone sort it out.

His point was pretty clear and cleaver.

Video games killed the Pinball star.

In my mind, and in my car, we can't rewind, we've gone too far.

When a pinball can compete size wise, price wise, and variety wise with an iPhone or smartphone, then pinball AND arcade video games will have a chance.

Xbox and Playstations offer so much more variety and a much more immersive experience than one single pinball can.

Pinballs is what it is....a niche hobby from a time passing before our eyes.

To keep pinball going in the right direction, I'd make a point not to Preorder anything and not buy anything until it was 100% complete. And refuse to buy anything that was grossly overpriced. Quality product for reasonable price. Get the industry back to a point where it's affordable for all. Plus open up more pinball heavy locations for people to enjoy them on location.

You're gettin bent outa shape for no reason.

Vid was making a play on some song lyrics from a song called "video killed the radio star".

You are being taken for a ride on the....

trollercoaster.jpg

You're getting bent out of shape over nothing. Vid was making a reference to a song substituting video games and pinball for "video" and "radio". Wolf chimed in after you gave a comment that suggested you didn't get the joke, and the pile on ensued because you showed your hand getting bent all out of shape.

This is one of the only communities there is with solid and sound knowledge. A LOT of these people here will be at any show/expo you attend. Point is: this is a small community - don't get known for taking things too personally when a couple veterans here sass you a bit.

Some people before all that occurred gave you an insightful response or two. I suggest you go watch "Tilt: The Battle to Save Pinball". That documentary, for only being about an hour long, gives a lot of insight from the designers at B/W who saw "the end" coming and ALMOST pulled off an incredible save.

People talk about the "resurgence of pinball" as if pinball is now big shit.

There is a surge right now in the collecting of pinball, but not of the coin op side.

Sure a few Barcades have opened, and a few "museums" of pinball have opened.

-

I use to deploy 5 Gorgars, or 5 KISS side by side in the same location because demand was so huge. The games used to pay themselves off in 2 months or less (if they didn't, the game was a flop, lol).

If you ever start seeing 5 Metallicas side by side, games paying themselves off in 2 months (remember when early WOZs were said to be drawing $2,000 a month...lol), or if you ever see a primetime major network TV star-studded pinball competition like in the 70s, then let's talk about the pinball resurgence.

The best way to payoff your collection is to put a bunch of coin op W/Ds side by side!

Sure, but do they have drop-off service?

I know there is no changing the mind of cranky old men in general, but this is just silly. Nobody claims pinball's popularity rivals it's heyday but it IS experiencing a resurgence ASIDE from nostalgic middle aged dudes building game rooms in their basements. 15 years ago pinball was all but dead. Today, leagues and tournaments are multiplying and growing. Expos are getting bigger. Barcades are opening. Manufacturers are popping up. sales are rising. The leagues I've seen are far more diverse than just old men. It's a huge resurgence, although it is no longer a purely quarter / operator driven ball game (mobile gaming has ended that forever, but there are other ways pinball is thriving).

Some expos were smaller in 2014, and I'll be closely watching their 2015 attendance/game amounts.

Like I said:

when I was a kid in the 70s, there was three large arcades in my town, plus many shops had one game in the corner
in the late 80s the last arcade closed down, and 99% of locations have a video machine, if anything

sorry, pinballs time is gone
video machines dug the hole
PlayStation checked the pulse
99c apps read the eulogy

I would hire the best talent in Hollywood to make a movie based on the life of Rick Stetta. Johnny Depp would play Rick as they look somewhat alike and both are quirky. Rick's enthusiasm for the hobby has always been infectious. A blockbuster movie based on his life would give location play a significant bump. Much like in the 70's when The Who's Tommy album came out.

The best part of those days was that it was truly a social activity. Virtually no one had pins at home, so you had to get up and get out of the house to play pinball. You never knew who you would see or what would happen. Every trip was different. And because there was no internet back then, you might walk into your local arcade and find a brand new game! I remember the day when High Speed showed up at my local arcade like it was yesterday.

Video games were obviously part of the problem. The biggest problem on location is that pinball and video games actually got too popular. Every 7/11, liquor store and gas station had pins and video games crammed anywhere they could fit them. Kids would constantly be around one or two games. Hard core drugees would come out at night and play until the sun came up. Mothers going to get milk got tired of this. Laws were passed either making the games illegal or too expensive to operate.

My city, San Jose Cal, still has a law on the books that says if you want to operate 10 or more games, you have to pass a police background check. Many of those laws and fees are still on the books. The state of Illinois has a $30 per device licensing fee. Add in local fees and it doesn't make it worth it. The barcades are getting around this by having the games on free play. These laws and fees need to be changed. If a city is getting no money from a fee, it's easy to show that the fee is wrong. Cities like SF and Oakland have made major changes lately. No pun intended, but Free Gold Watch has become a jewel of SF.

That's a deep question to ask on an internet bulletin board. This is short attention span theater, as you've seen above. I've seen the hobby make a come back twice so far in my lifetime. I see no reason why it can't happen again. I try to do what I can to make it happen most every day.

Do any shows publically announce their attendance numbers? None that I know of.

Regardless, the pinball map numbers are what you should be watching. There isn't enough wealth in this country to bring the hobby back based only on sales to home buyers.

Maybe yes , maybe no, but I am in on the next 5 new releases, and I know many that are as well.

If people like you, it's real easy to find out.

Yeah I would be surprised if pinball will ever be as big as it was.

It's not impossible, just really improbable. You have so much media and entertainment in your pocket at your fingertips at all times. You have to have something that goes beyond that in convenience, accessibility and appeal.

Pinball is experiencing a resurgence because it's tactile, collectible and the information is far-reaching thanks to the internet. In a world of things that are simulated, pinball provides something "real".

I love pinball, but I have tons of friends that would rather skateboard, drink beer, play video games, etc. No matter how much pizza I promise them to play pinball in my basement in the winter months they always end up playing NHL on the projector rather than any of the machines I have. I still try to introduce it to people as much as possible. I think the local multiplayer appeal is the right card to play.

All my in-laws love the machines though. Anyone over 30-40 usually has fun.

The only way pinball would become as big as it was is if every vending operator started putting machines everywhere again. If the next generation could remember growing up with machines to play, then they would feel an attachment towards it, and continue.

I don't agree with that. The world has been changed by mobile technology and home gaming. People are not going to randomly drop quarters into games at convenience stores and laundromats anymore, certainly not in any numbers to make it worth operators while to maintain pinball machines. Trying too force that paradigm in today's world is guaranteed to fail. Pinball's future success will depend on locations and events specifically built around pinball either as a social or competitive pastime. Barcades, tournaments, leagues, pinball parties, whatever.

the op may not like some of the responses, but the horse is LONG gone out of the barn when it comes to pinball... other forms of entertainment have replaced it... we don't gather round the big ol' rca console radio like they used to do in the old days either...

take someone like me (and i don't think i'm alone)... when i was a yute, i put every available dime/quarter i had into a pinball machine (during the summers, skee-ball's got a lot of dimes too)...

then two things happened:
- video arcade games appeared...
and
- pinball changed...

and all my money started going into video arcades... they were cool, and i did not care for the way pinball changed... and i cared even less about it as pinball changed more... i have absolutely zero interest in "modern" pinball machines*...

then home consoles showed up and virtually killed arcades entirely...

imo, there is virtually no way that you could ever bring back the glory days, and furthermore, for all the talk of "resurgence", pinball is a pimple on the butt on "entertainment dollars spent" in today's world...

times change, interest changes, new things come along... it is the way of the world...

* actually, i am of the opinion that the more modern machines make pinball less accessible to the masses... there's a huge disconnect between "home collectors", who want deep games that take a long time to play, and provide long-term interest and "non-pin players that you want to turn into pin players", who will become utterly bored because they can't even begin to figure out the game...

IMHO, "if you build it they will come". meaning decent fun playing, mechanically solid, affordable machines. some of the old EM and Solid State machines were really great players, a bit simplistic but it was also part of their charm. is a DMD a necessity? multiple levels? wire form habitrails?

lots of great machines only awarded extra ball and specials/credits, I wouldnt call it a complete step backwards to create something that used one fairly bulletproof module to run everything for maybe a dozen new machines, built to be more affordable. if something happens, also easy and fairly inexpensive to fix. simple enough to be flat-packed assembled by the buyer, but not really a "kit".
power in, playfield+controls, audio+backlights, credit button or coin mech.. 4 connector simple.

I'd think many home orders and operators would welcome some simple affordable tough machines if they offered good gameplay. a machine could get a playfield swap to be a different game easily too if the design and construction had that intent in mind with a series like this being created. an owner or operator could change the game with a playfield, backglass, and a quick controller setting or have a tag (rom?) on the playfield so the controller just recognizes a changeup. in a home or at a location if a playfield gets boring or earnings drop off, just do a quick swapover by buying or trading.
if someone really likes a couple of them they could be bought whole or parts'd together for being simple and modular.

There's a quiet pinball resurgence going on amongst rock stars and actors. Especially in the LA area. I wouldn't bet against it.

I'm not so sure about that. Values change from one generation to another. Perhaps pinball just needs a reboot. I have friends with young children who are fascinated with my pins. They can't stop playing them. There's a pizza joint in town that has 3 pins, which get quite a bit of use from the young ones.

Furthermore, how many advertisements do you see where people under the age of 20 are wearing bell-bottoms, driving VW microbuses and playing 60's style guitars? What's old is new again, and I think that once some of the younger generation learn to become bemused by their "smart" phones, they'll find better quality amusement within the real world, with real things to do that are a lot more fun and engaging than tapping buttons toward gaining access to the virtual world. Our bodies were meant to experience the real, physical world and pinball is just one aspect that taps into that. Video games bore me, but I was born well before the video game revolution.

Long live pinball!!

People who think that pinball machines and arcade games are becoming popular are wrong. Just because you like them, we all congregate to a place where all we do is talk about them and we make friends who like them does not mean they are anywhere near a mainstream item. When you see a 5 gallon bucket emptied from an arcade game like the days of Ms. Pac or cash boxes overflowing on pins, then you have an argument to make. As of right now they are nothing more than a trending novelty and in the next fives years it will die off along with the barcades.

Every generation looks back and laughs at the last one.

This generation laughed at "That 70s show".

Your generation laughed at "Happy Days"

The next generation will laugh at " The Internets"

I'll predict it goes the other way.

When they finally figure out "Virtual Reality" (like when they finally figured out "Multimedia"), people will go to a Virtual Arcade, Virtual Fight Club, Virtual Demolition Derby.....hell, I can't wait for Virtual Dating......have sex with men and women from all over the world without being covered in insects.

theyve been predicting that since the 70s. tron, lawnmower man, whatever. its always been a dead end and always will be.

It took 20 years for Multimedia to finally happen, it could take 40 for VR.

When Virtual Dating finally does hit the scene, I can't wait to find you.

I don't know how old you are but you are very caught up on the age of people.

Anyone who wears stained undies is either very young, very old, or retarded.

I really want to see this now.

EDIT: Well I just googled it and found the thread thats three years old asking if this would ever be made. Pretty doubtful now.