Historically speaking, pinball had it's greatest years of production and has been the healthiest during the worst of economic times.

During the 30s throughout The Great Depression, there were hundreds of manufacturers making perhaps thousands of different titles, some of which selling as many as 50,000 units a piece. Then again during the sluggish economy of the 1970s, pinball had it's second greatest decade of all time.

Between those decades, times of economic growth saw lackluster pinball production at best and during the economic boom of the 80s, pinball almost vanished into obscurity. After Black Monday in 1987 and the sluggish economy that followed thru the early 90s, pinball started to thrive again. By 2000, the economy was growing again, and once again pinball was struggling to survive. Throughout the 2000s as the economy grew at an alarming rate, it seems pinball was hanging by a thread.

With the crash of 2008, the above pattern ended and did a complete 180. Pinball did not see a renaissance during the recession that followed, but seemed to struggle right along until the economy started to recover. It wasn't until about five years ago that both the economy and pinball were hitting their stride again with both looking very healthy today.

So, the question is when the next crash hits, which could happen any day now, as history shows ten years of solid economic growth is usually the limit before something like this happens, will the pinball industry survive or be thriving like we haven't seen since the 1970s, or will it vanish into the night like so many over inflated 401k accounts? My guess is it will be somewhat close to the latter.

Is that what they were making all those pinball machines out of during the greatest decade pinball has ever known?

And what affect will the next economic crash have on all this, or the price of tea in China for that matter?

Just so you guys know where I'm coming from and it's not something crazy I didn't spend time thinking about and just made up out of nowhere. I rode the snail pace economy of the 70s when there were pinball machines everywhere and little pocket change so every replay and special counted.

I've also watched the economic rollercoaster ride ever since then.

Take a look at the graph I posted yesterday in the "economy on fire" thread and then ride with me front row POV on Goliath. One of the tallest rollercoasters I've ever been on. It's fun!
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2008 I believe. I remember the DOW hitting 14,000, and on that very day the only thing I could think of was-

SELL!! SELL!! SELL!!

Hope yourself!

Like Grayman, I'm looking to capitalize this time.

And how quickly they forget.

I'm always prepared.

The dog already gets the cheapest cigars, but her master may have a tough time trading in his Jack Daniels for Evan Williams.

Yeah, I can't sit in the back seat on that one. I can only stand a couple seconds of greying out at one time.

I'm guessing when it happens, it won't affect the wealthy that much as they are usually the cause of these things and are always prepared to make a buck either way.

But then there is the above average Joe who is now flush with cash due to working hard and good investing while the economy has been thriving over the last several years and has put himself together a nice little collection of NIB games and top notch classics. But all the sudden some of his investments are in the tank and that well paying job is no more.

His mortgage can't pay for itself and there is still 15-20 years left to pay it off. So a mad scramble occurs to start trying to get back some of the money he has invested in these toys and other things, but the market is now flooded with others doing the same, so he is lucky to get half his money back.

The pinball manufacturers try to adapt by making $25,000 Super LES, thinking the wealthy are still interested and they do sell a few. On the other end there is no more market for mid range premiums, as those are the buyers that are getting hit the hardest. So they come up with some cheaper street level games, but that doesn't go over too well either... to be continued...

That's the whole nature of this thread.

During the worst economies, pinball and coin op always did the best. But now that it has shifted to home buyers and home entertainment, that may not apply any more.

What does happen though is o-din finally gets his Supreme pinball machine for way less than he's offering to pay right now. In fact less than it sold for NIB

When the economy's in the tank is when I get in an RV and set out on another little road trip. Always the best time to do such things. And a stop in Hopkins Mn. is certainly on my to do list.

I was just thinking about maybe eating some of your popcorn and throwing a few quarters in Break Shot is all. And of course shaking the hand of the legend himself.

That's what's great about recessions. Plenty of time to do the things you want.

I'm glad you guys are with me on this.

This is what you get when I get called into work on a Friday.

Bonus time!

Friday the 13th to boot.

Well hell, when the big slide happens we may finally get that Big Buck Hunter VE after all.

Back to the days when pinside was a manly repair tip forum for those that had actually used hand tools before with plenty of pictures and gifs of scantily clad women, and there weren't endless, ridiculous "shut up and take my money" dream theme threads, or whipped men who admit they let their wives run their lives, and it was OK to say you didn't like a particular theme or game without somebody going off and sniveling to whoever and then having the hammer of Thor come down on you for doing so would be A-OK with me.

One good thing about an economic downturn is it does have a way of weeding out the posers who live life on a line of credit from those that are ready and can make it thru on cruise control.

And personally, I look forward to it.

At first. But these weren't ordinary street level games. These were state of the art playing machines with great layouts, features and scoring and all non licensed themes! They caught on real quick with the unemployment crowd...... to be continued.....

No I'm serious. This place was much more fun when there wasn't so much money or sniveling involved. Now you can't say shit without some holier than thou sniveling weasel reporting it. And of course once that happens there is no real way to defend yourself against the consequences.

You might want to check with the wifey first.

No, I know for sure you and I are west and east coast bookend kings in that department. And Iceman and Who-Dey are somewhere in the middle.

It is nice to be in such great company though.

That's funny!

When I was in military school there was one colonel that smoked cigars and just threw the butts on the ground when he was done. A student who was a bigger rebel than I was collected them all up and kept them in his desk.

One day the teacher who was a big dude with 14 kids of his own ( he was very proud of that) came in and picked up the desk with the kid sitting in it and turned it over and dumped both the kid and all the cigar butts on the floor. It was kind of funny at the time.

I didn't like military school the two years I was there, and I got sent there for pretty much being who I am, but it did prepare me for any abuse the outside world could give me. And it taught me the discipline to get up in the morning and make the most out of every hour in the day, which I did for quite some time during my hard working years. They don't beat kids there now like they used to though. Too many lawyers I guess.

What do you guys think ended up with more dimples at St Catherine's military school, this hardwood paddle, or my bare ass?

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Wood paddles at school and hot wheel track with the little connector thing left in it at home.

That's what's missing with kids today, good old fashioned painful discipline. Quite a few of the grown ups could use it too.

They beat me more because I wasn't Catholic.

The real discipline came from the other students though as when you stepped out of line it was usually ten against one. And I wish I could find that one kid that kicked me in the jaw with his boot while the other ones held me down. It's never been the same since.

And of course Hollywood had to go and glorify my experience. Filmed at the school I went to before I was there. I did find Taps very entertaining though.

One thing I regret was I got out before the eighth grade as they got to use to underground rifle range which I hear is also no longer there.
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It was bad economic times and I know my single teacher mom had to dig deep to put me there, but she was at her wits end with me making trouble at school where they didn't want me any more and fighting my brother all the time. He had problems of his own with hyperactivity and coordination, so I was the lucky one that got shipped off. I hear it's real expensive for the honor to go there now.

First thing the other kids asked "If you aren't a catholic, then what are you?" "Uh, protestant I think" Big mistake...

Well, it's too hot outside to go tend to my burned up avocado trees, so we might as well sit inside this nice air conditioned house and pass the time while we wait for the stock market to crash.

My daughter too! She's grown up to be quite a young lady. Straight A student and working near full time. Just glad she never got caught selling those vape pens when she was in Jr. High. I am proud of her for being so enterprising though.

My nephew was top of his class at Emory and is now sitting on wall street living in Manhattan making the big bucks. Not bad for 25 years old.

"Don't you miss living in So Cal surfing?' "Yep, but by the time I'm done here I'll be buying my own beach"

That's funny!

All these kids have to do is look at me or my daughter's mother to know they better get a college education.

There are no short cuts now. Gone are the days when a mechanic, construction , or grocery clerk job can do any more that just get you by. But when they did, we had a lot of fun.

...their pinball playfield gets a dimple.

(fixed it for ya!)

They would have loved my dad then, sitting in his chair half drunk looking like Archie Bunker telling super politically incorrect jokes that I dare not repeat here. He was a riot and always the life of the party wherever he went.

He was a good ole boy that liked to have fun. And a big influence on me. Even though my mom kicked him out when I was in third grade, we spent a lot of time together later on. I miss him, but thankful for the time we had.

When I apply for a job, it is the boss that gets interviewed, not me.

I remember pops scrubbing the top of his boat once using some new kind of laundry detergent when his feet went out from under him and he landed on his ass with a big thud.

All he could do is jump up and say "no more fucking Cold Power!"

This is a precious picture to me as it is the only one I think I have with my daughter and dad together at Christmas time some 17 or 18 years ago.
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Oh he was a happy nice guy alright. But maybe more snarky than I can be. Always found something funny in everything. A Korean War veteran that loved his fishing. Took long range trips and would be gone for weeks.

He used to dress up real slick for his business meetings so every time I look at my Big Daddy pinball machine it kind of reminds me of him.

I've got some younger pics of him somewhere and there is a resemblance to Carrol O'Conner for sure. I just gotta dig them out sometime.

Thumbing through this old box of photos, I didn't even know I had one of my old '67 Bronco. Sold that thing 20 years ago.

Check out o-din in the mid 90s.

"Unemployment been berry berry good to me!"

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Let's see- mid 90s-

Tasty waves- check!
Cool buzz- check!
Old beater Bronco-Check!
Pinball at every location- check!
Plenty of good music- check!
Enough money to get by- check!
Hanging out with old friends also unemployed- check!

So to summarize-

90s way better than the 80s when I was slave to the grind- Check!

Almost forgot about all the single young ladies that were still in range- Check! Check! Check!

I've lost a few pounds since then. I think I was at my heaviest at that time. Too much good food and beer.

Oh Nimblepin, if we had only known each other in the 90s. Hard to believe you were only a few blocks away. Just think of the glorious hell we could have raised!

Hard to imagine it could be worth much less than it is now.

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This stock market dow hovering around 25k is a good indicator to me that it's reached the top of the lift hill and is just creeping over now waiting for some momentum and the usual panic to set in.

What a way to live. lol.

At least we don't have to worry about today's machines ever becoming collector's items. I mean who in 20-30 years is going to have any nostalgia about these?

It's either that or according to today's rumor, some other dinosaur.

That's exactly the truth. Early 90s I worked at a new car dealer, and it was the used car department that was on fire. And I was the guy prepping them. The other techs had endless amounts of work.

Of course in the 80s when the economy was on fire it didn't matter as new cars were such pieces of junk, mechanics had plenty of work anyway.

Good economy, bad economy, it never put me out of work unless I wanted to be.

I like to see the economy in the tank though, as that seems to be the best time for me.

The stock market had another unsettling day as the Dow dropped another 600+ points.

It is reassuring to know that many Beatles fans will be unaffected by this, as they are older and wise, and not in debt like many of the younger investors and have surely put aside enough money to finance their dream pinball machine.

True, but with their houses long paid off and other debts out of the way, not to mention great company pension and retirement plans along with social security to supplement all that, and all kinds of other money now socked away, there is no worries to them what the stock market will do.

The one thing left is the longing to relive their flower child days when they truly were rebels.

I'd like to see the kind of interest rates we haven't seen since the 70s. That'll fix everybody that thinks it's a good idea to live on credit and be in debt.

A phenomenon that took off in the 80s, when the powers that be decided to mortgage decades of the future so they could have a few good years in the present and hopefully be looked back on with some kind of relevance. There was a famous retired actor that convinced a lot of people it was the right thing to do.

Yes , high interest bonds are a great place to have your money.

Unfortunately, ever since then interest rates have been kept low as an incentive to keep people spending what they don't have and punishment for those that would save their money in a safe account or even a long term bond. Probably a result of the pumped up economics that were manufactured in the 80s and the long term consequences of that. All to avert disaster and to keep things chugging along.

Meanwhile the debt has grown to astronomical figures as the spending continues. That bill is coming due.

Yes, I meant that bill is long overdue.

They won't be screwing old people out of their social security or medicare.

There will still be plenty of younger people in the work force to foot that bill like there always been. And if more is needed, they will get charged accordingly. That's the least of my worries.

Plus, you don't think they want these kind of angry mobs to deal with, do you?
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True, but at the same time the already low interest rates prior to the meltdown and easy credit allowed people that otherwise had no business doing or means to otherwise do so, buy houses and it turned into a feeding frenzy, driving up the prices and depleting the market at a much higher than usual rate. A lot of it then turned to get rich quick schemes, as house flipping by those that had the means to do so became big business.

Everything else you stated like keeping interest rates down so the only way to make money was to invest in stocks and then trade barriers were set up and interest rates began to rise, were primary things that brought on the great depression, sounds like history is repeating itself or about to repeat itself again. Which it usually does, sooner or later.

The way they run things and manipulate the economy and the overall greed involved, it won't surprise me one bit when it all comes crashing down again as it has become human nature and business as usual to borrow from the future to get fat and prosperous today.

Another harsh day on Wall Street. This up and down yo-yoing lately can't be a good sign.

I honestly don't know what's going on.

Usually in the past when panic sets in it just snowballs from there. I guess we are not quite to the panic stage yet .

At the rate we're going, the human race will be lucky to survive another 50 years. If that.

I'm not sure if last week wasn't just a teaser.

If we lose ACA, then that will save me about $1.00 a month because then I won't have to have it. Enough to buy one pinball.

Rocky week on wall street so far. They don't even warn us when an earthquake is coming.

Bumping this thread because this may be happening as we speak. I had predicted closer to November, but the virus fears have accelerated the inevitable.

Even without the virus, this was coming one way or another. The virus fears going away and the upcoming election may stabilize things, but no economy in our history has been this prosperous for this long.

So the question is, besides the usual reasons, who has put off the thought of buying a new pinball machine until this turmoil and uncertainty is gone?

I won't be canceling my Rick and Morty because that is a one in a million machine and I am set up for weathering the storm. But don't see myself shelling out 1000s of dollars for any more anytime soon. Wealthy people will always buy what they want, but others with mortgages and other expenses might need to prioritize where there money goes.

We all know guys like Ice are going to continue to buy every Premium/LE Stern puts out, but what about the average buyer that does not buy every title, and even when the economy is booming, can't afford or justify the extra money to go LE or Premium over a pro model?

The hobby will be fine. With the last recession, desirable games, especially classic B/W from the 90s remained hot and didn't see much of a slowdown in price increase.

However, the one company still making new games saw very lean times and I believe I read they had to layoff important members of the staff. Now this same company has moved into a much larger facility, where the overhead must be substantially higher, so how another recession will affect them this time remains to be seen.

Then you have a company like Deeproot that has admitted to spending many millions of dollars already, but still hasn't sold a machine, and with the current coronavirus fears, when they finally do have their game or games at the Texas show, they might be showing them to a very sparse crowd as events all over the world continue to be cancelled.

Bump

I think we are getting closer.

This could be the very straw that breaks the camel's back.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-virus-plan-anticipates-18-190626012.html

I'm predicting this coming Monday is going to be a big day.

Depends on what side of the fence you are on.

One man's bad day, might translate into another man's not so bad day.

Fn A!

Hopefully, the next economic crash doesn't make me fat again.

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