it will need to become simpler... we live in a world of short attention spans... what the average pinsider "wants from a game" makes it even harder to draw new people in...
(Topic ID: 86784)
You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider ccotenj.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Quoted from Atomicboy:I think you underestimate them. When I was a kid, around the age of my kids now who can't seem to stay interested in the machines (age 12), I couldn't find a lot of interest in pinball either above the budding video games in the mid 80s.
Later on, when a few did grab me, and I started to appreciate the rules, and the fact that I was playing something real, and that I played a lot of sports, and this had a real ball aspect, that is what finally grabbed me in. Despite being hot and cold with vids over the years, pinball has always amazed me, and my 28 machines are indicative of that over the fact that I play no vids no, other than the odd uber simple and short timed free game online.
Most "kids" just don't have the avenue/chance to even begin to sink their teeth into these things, as they are virtually unavailable to 99% of people out there.
The problem is not innovation. Hell, my one girl, when she comes down, plays more on my one EM than anything else, because she can figure out the rules more.
read your last sentence again... you make our point for us... 
Quoted from t2:When kids grow up and start getting places of their own and start making good money they will start buying pins because they are just COOOL!!! Cool to look at, cool to play, cool to collect, and for many cool and interesting to work on.
i really doubt that is going to happen... the GREAT majority of pin owners today played pinball on location and it's safe to say that it was a childhood dream for many (waving hand in the air) to have their own pinball machine... today's kids have zero emotional attachment to pinball... there is nothing "cool" about pinball to them...
Quoted from vid1900:Pins are too complex to attract any casual customers.
I've got a Comet and an AFM in a 20-somethings bar, and Comet earns way more money - because it does not look intimidating and is easy to figure out the goals.
i've been banging that drum for awhile, but getting nowhere with it...
^^^
you are thinking like a "pinhead" vs. "sucking in a new player"... while that might make it more interesting for pinheads (even though their are several issues with the model you outlined, primarily that every machine will play differently, even the same machine will play differently immediately after being shopped, and it's stupid easy to cheat at pinball), i can't see that having any appeal to someone who doesn't already play pinball... the appeal of online competition for ps3 and xbox is only there for people who already play console games...
the person actually has to have interest in playing in the first place before "competition" even enters the equation... they can slake their thirst for competition in much simpler ways, and those ways are something that they are already very familiar with...
i freely admit i could be wrong about the above, it wouldn't be the first time...
the perspective of someone with half a dozen machines (more or less) in their basement is massively different from someone who has never put a coin in a machine before... instead of thinking of ways to make it more interesting for existing players, you need to think of ways to entice new players... imo, games that would be designed to bring in new players would be denigrated and crapped on mightily here at pinside (examples of this are easily found when looking at threads on "home version" machines)... there is a huge disconnect between pinside members and "the non-pinball playing world"...
Quoted from abaxas:I always believe this was one of the fundamental reasons for pinball's decline. Casual pinball players didn't want all the faff with the complex machined but enjoyed the simpler ones.
Every pinball collector has been a non player and also a casual player at some point in their lives.
I guess we could simplify further....... Pat Lawlor killed pinball.
bingo... and that holds true for those who were "non casual" players... when i was a yute, virtually every coin i came across went into a pinball machine... when solid state electronics hit the scene, i lost interest pretty fast...
Quoted from pezpunk:i think trying to think up features that will cause a random young person to put money into a pinball machine out on location is a waste of time because i'm not sure such features exist.
to be honest, i think you may be right there... being completely honest with myself, if 6 year old chris had had a ps3 with a big screen tv at home, an ipad and iphone to play games on, and all the other forms of entertainment that are available today, i'm not entirely sure i ever would have put a dime in a pinball machine... it would be easy to say "oh yea, i definitely would have played pinball", but that is being intellectually dishonest...
it's somewhat analogous to radio vs. tv... back in the day, the family would crowd around the radio to get entertainment, listening to the weekly shows... that model of entertainment completely died when tv's became affordable...
Quoted from toyotaboy:Lot of comparisons of pinball to video games and phone apps. Is this a fair comparison? There's another mechanical game that still exists, and actually thrives in nearly every town u drive through. Bowling alleys rarely close because there's always someone interested in playing. If a lane is down, it's not making money. We need operators that care about keeping games running in good condition, and increase pinball leagues. People scoff at paying 75 cents to a dollar to play a single game of pinball, yet they have no issue with paying $20/hour for bowling, and rent stinky shoes for $3?
really? the one that is 2 miles from my house closed last year, and had been on life-support forever... most bowling alleys around me are on life-support, and have to resort to gimmicks to simply keep the doors open...
you picked a bad example there... but it is a PERFECT example of "what used to be entertainment for the masses, but isn't anymore"... 
boxing and horse racing used to be major entertainment too... now you are lucky if you get 1 good fight a year, and the only reason racetracks are surviving today is because they've filled them up with slot and video poker machines...
the other thing that people are forgetting that is a pretty big factor is the "human interface"....
it seems like my nephews mastered the video game controller in minutes*, and the interface for mobile devices is even simpler to master... good luck acquiring even modest flipper skills in that short a time...
with video games, handheld devices, etc., the interface does the exact same thing every time... with a round ball being hit by a rubber flat surface, not so much...
also, the randomness of pinball is a big turn off to people who expect the exact same thing to happen every time they do something... hell, even pinheads who are partial to modern games gripe that em machines are "too random"...
*little buggers learned in 30 minutes what took me heaven knows how much time....
^^^
i know that if my first experience with pinball was at a place i went a few months ago, i'd never put money in one again... 2 of them just took tokens and never would start, and the rest had flippers so worn that you literally couldn't get the ball halfway up the playfield...
after wasting tokens on those, we then had a great time for the next couple hours playing arcade games...
Quoted from nosro:The best way to advance pinball to the next generation is to kill the current generation of pinball fans! Watching the evolution of Pinball is like watching the death of Blockbuster Video. The worst enemy of advancing the product to relevancy with the next generation is the fact that the company relies on the old generation as a crutch to stay alive to fight another day. If you can't survive today, there is no sense planning for the future.
At some point, the former giant (Blockbuster Video) has to go out of business, with some small outfit to fill in what's left of the declining market (Redbox), and let some newcomer do what is needed to move the industry to the next level (Netflix). Fill in your own names from the pinball world to substitute for the video rental companies.
nah, that analogy doesn't work... the "content" hasn't changed, just the delivery method...
You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider ccotenj.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
