(Topic ID: 150717)

Weak pop bumpers on Taxi

By Plumonium

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

  • Taxi Williams, 1988

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

image.jpg
image.jpg
image.jpg
image.jpg
image_(resized).jpg
IMG_20160214_043551312_(resized).jpg
untitled_(resized).JPG
untitled_(resized).JPG
image_(resized).jpg
image_(resized).jpg
image_(resized).jpg
image_(resized).jpg
d6996692c366c60e50626868e4662d227a0d3a2d_(resized).jpg
429a15d218aec602ef633bcbf97792adcc40c2fe_(resized).jpg
untitled_(resized).JPG
image_(resized).jpg
There are 122 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 8 years ago

My pop bumpers on my Taxi are weak, slow and delayed it seems. I want to test the voltage at the coils. I don't want to stick my probes the wrong way. Can you guys help me out?

Game on, red where, black where? What should I read? Ac or dc?

Thanks!

#2 8 years ago

The coils on my Taxi are strong. Measured 39.5 VDC. Black probe on ground braid in cab, red probe on red wire on tab of pop bumper coil.

#3 8 years ago

Almost certainly not a voltage issue. Time to rebuild the pops.

#4 8 years ago

If they measure 39.5, is that mean they get all the power they need?

Should I trigger the pop to test it? Or does not matter?

#5 8 years ago

Voltage is only one part of the equation....just having Voltage doesn't necessarily mean you have the power and current. Current determines the strength of the magnetic field that pulls the coil plunger. The amount of current is derived from the impedence of the coil. The coils magnetic power has to overcome the frictional losses from the sleeve, plunger, spring and other components of the pop. Again I would be surprised if voltage is your problem as the high power voltage for a pop is derived from the transformer winding a rectifier and a smoothing cap. That's it and neither of those get weak. Only full failure of a rectifier and almost never the winding of the transformer. The smoothing cap would be the most like culprit of a voltage issue but even more likely is a mechanical issue.

#6 8 years ago

Agreed. Start with the cheap and easy stuff. Clean the leaf switches. Dirty contact don't pass electricity well.

It is the right coil. Does the assemble move easily when moved by hand? Check the plates for crack or bring bent. Next disassemble. Does the coil sleeve remove easily? Maybe the coil got stuck on at one point heated and warped. Clean it up. Look for mushrooming plunger and stop.

1 week later
#7 8 years ago

Haven't had the chance to check the adjustment but I can clearly see the pop bumpers being weak even in test mode. All three.

#8 8 years ago

If all three seem weak it may be a power issue. As robertmee was saying voltage is only 1 part, curent must FLOW to ground to make powerful coils. That means all the wires must have good solder joints, not have broken strands of wire, zero resistance at connections (header pins and IDC connectors) and make good ground connection thru the transistors to ground. With all that said what do all three pops have in commen? A power wire from the Aux P/S and a fuse clip.

#9 8 years ago

I'll check for those 2 things. Good thinking.

Voltage is 40.9v at coils

#10 8 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

I'll check for those 2 things. Good thinking.
Voltage is 40.9v at coils

That voltage reading is fine. So suspect either a current delivery problem as described earlier, or all of them might need rebuilt.

#11 8 years ago

I looked at the schematics and heres what I came up with to check, F-3 fuse clips low tension or corroded, bad fuse, jumper W-4 cracked solder joint or not zero ohms and lastly 5J11 pin 11 cracked solder joint or burnt connector. The pops are the only thing on this circuit.

#12 8 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

My pop bumpers on my Taxi are weak, slow and delayed it seems.

Just a quick troubleshooting question: We're they working well and then quickly all simultaneously became poor. Or, have they always been poor since you aquired the game?

#13 8 years ago

They were always bad since I got the game. I do not remember them being that underwhelming when I tested the game briefly at the seller. May be they were already.

When I got the game home, the first time i turned it on, I heard a loud pop coming from the back box it seems, there was an audio buzz and no display. I turned the game off and let it warm up because it was cold outside. Some condensation could have build up.

That's the only clue I have. If it makes sense.

#14 8 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

I looked at the schematics and heres what I came up with to check, F-3 fuse clips low tension or corroded, bad fuse, jumper W-4 cracked solder joint or not zero ohms and lastly 5J11 pin 11 cracked solder joint or burnt connector. The pops are the only thing on this circuit.

Thanks Grumpy, you are super helpful., really appreciate.

Was it jumper W-4?

Can I test current at the fuse? What should I read?

#15 8 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

Can I test current at the fuse? What should I read?

No not really, to test you would need a constat draw but that would burn up the coil.

Quoted from Plumonium:Was it jumper W-4?

Page 76 of the manual shows W-4 jumper on the aux power supply feeding power to fuse F-3. After the fuse power goes to J11 pin 11 and 12.
The red/white power wire coming from pin 11 may have a bad connection where it lands on the first coil lug. I would pull the aux power supply out and look at the solder joints as there isn't much to go wrong here.

#16 8 years ago

In case you did not see my other post, could this be related? I checked every resistance and transistors and they check ok.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/board-damage-taxi

-1
#17 8 years ago

Have you replaced the fuse? I had a fuse recently that part of the element had burnt, but still was enough in tact to pass voltage to the coil, but not enough to support the current to the coil. Found it by actually pulling the fuse and testing ohms with the meter. Read in the Kohms range. Diode or continuity test wouldn't have caught it.

Another test is take a piece of wire and ground one end to the cabinet braid. Touch the other end momentarily to the non-banded side of the pop bumper coil diode while the game is powered up. Does the coil seem to fire full strength or weak like before? If full strength, then you have narrowed the problem down to the ground signal from the MPU. If still weak, could still be in the power side chain or just bad pops that need rebuilt.

#18 8 years ago

Thanks Robert!

I'd like to do that test. Now the interesting part, there are no diodes (both sides) on the pop bumpers coil. The only diodes are on the scoring switches. See pictures.

Also I'm wondering if the ground wire red/white must be mounted on a specific side of the coil? looking at my setup I can't see a constant.

I did not pull out my power/aux board yet as suggested but please check my setup to see any thing wrong.

image_(resized).jpgimage_(resized).jpg
image_(resized).jpgimage_(resized).jpg
image_(resized).jpgimage_(resized).jpg

#19 8 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

Now the interesting part, there are no diodes (both sides) on the pop bumpers

Thats because there on the aux power supply.

Quoted from Plumonium:Also I'm wondering if the ground wire red/white must be mounted on a specific side of the coil?

The red/ white wire is the power wire, its tied to all 3 pops. Since the diodes are mounted on the aux power supply it doesn't matter which way you install the wires on the coil.
The damage on your Mpu board would only affect one pop bumper, you need to look for things that affects all three.

#20 8 years ago

Right.

I pull out my mpu board and everything check, very solid connections and pretty much no resistance at all. My board is not original and is one from earthshaker if that matters.

Here is a picture of my power wire at J11 connector, see it's not hooked properly but I don't think that matter really. See picture.

Then, I guess the problem lies between the power board and the first coil, right?

image_(resized).jpgimage_(resized).jpg

#21 8 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

Then, I guess the problem lies between the power board and the first coil, right?

My best guess would be a cracked header pin on the aux power board. Or a bad fuse.

#22 8 years ago

There were no cracked header pins on the board and the fuses tested ok. Like you suggested I tested connectivity at w-4 and the fuse clip. There were virtually no resistance between the other side of w-4 up to pin 11 on J11.

Now if I wanted to test the coil like Robert suggested, knowing the diode are on the aux power board, how should I proceed?

#23 8 years ago

You would BREIFLY touch a jumper from the ground braid to the blue wires on the pop coils. Pin needs to be on and in attract mode.

#24 8 years ago

Thanks man, I'll test that in the morning when the kid is up. I'll also grab a video of the ball action inside the pops for you guys to see what I mean.

Really, I was not afraid to trigger to pops with my finger for testing compare to my Diner right next to it where you would have to pay me to stick my fingers in there.

#25 8 years ago

Yeah what Grumpy said...sorry I forgot on later system 11 the diodes we moved to the board.

#26 8 years ago

Pop bumpers in action, or lack of...



I tested the coils grounding them to the braid and it seems to be the same weak strength.

#27 8 years ago

Fuse? I know you tested it. Lust replace it and test again.

#28 8 years ago

I switched my f3 with my f4 even though both tested ok. That before I grabbed the videos so I guess the fuse is not the problem.

I assume you agree the pops are rather deceiving?

#29 8 years ago

I think I'll disassemble one pop to see if there is anything wrong with the sleeve or adjustment. May be the guy who put it back together messed up something...

This problem leaves me clueless. I mean, I feel I could hold the pop up with my finger when activated. Again, could certainly not do that with my other games.

#30 8 years ago

What does the coil labels say?

#31 8 years ago

The coils should be AE-23-800.

#32 8 years ago

They are AE-23-800. I doubt all three are bad. Could it be the amount of current is just not enough even though everything is "fine"?

What you guys would do/test next?

#33 8 years ago

I'd pull one of the mech's and see what it looks like...
things get dirty down there.

#34 8 years ago

I will pull one out but everything was cleaned up and adjusted before put on a brand new CPR PF.

#35 8 years ago

Your IDC connector is rough. This is probably where you are loosing your current. I'd repin that with a molex connector. All three pops go through 5J11 pin 11.

untitled_(resized).JPGuntitled_(resized).JPG

429a15d218aec602ef633bcbf97792adcc40c2fe_(resized).jpg429a15d218aec602ef633bcbf97792adcc40c2fe_(resized).jpg

#36 8 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

I doubt all three are bad

You never know what someone in the past may have installed. I have seen all sorts of strange things.

#37 8 years ago

Also check the interconnect board connectors 2P5-2P8 - pop power is routed through the interconnect board.

d6996692c366c60e50626868e4662d227a0d3a2d_(resized).jpgd6996692c366c60e50626868e4662d227a0d3a2d_(resized).jpg

#38 8 years ago

This looks like someone over fused F-3, total meltdown of the transistor, poorly replaced connector J11. What looks like a new coil that was poorly soldered, and I'm sure there are burnt header pins that no one replaced. You can always do like the EM guys and swap W-4 to W-5 and high tap it.

#39 8 years ago

I was wondering about the W jumpers, should taxi pops be 25v or 50v. Because my aux power board is from an Earthshaker may be it is not setup right for a Taxi?

My interconnect board was once replaced as well (serial not matching) I took it out and all the connections looks good.

image_(resized).jpgimage_(resized).jpg

#40 8 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Your IDC connector is rough. This is probably where you are loosing your current. I'd repin that with a molex connector. All three pops go through 5J11 pin 11.

looking at the interconnect board I see other place where wires are not hooked like it should, for example 2P7
image_(resized).jpgimage_(resized).jpg

#41 8 years ago

I also tested from the interconnect board 2J8 to the F3 fuse and there is virtually no resistance if that matters.

#42 8 years ago

ES and Taxi are both system 11b so they use same aux board.

#43 8 years ago

If you want you can get a length of 16 or 18 awg wire and solder it to the fuse clip and to your pop bumper. That'll bypass all the traces and connectors. Then see what the response is. This is only as a diagnostic tool don't leave it like that. If it's still weak briefly ground the other lug of the coil to the ground braid with another piece of wire and monitor the strength of the coil. That'll diagnose the ground side. If still weak then it's mechanical.

#44 8 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

If you want you can get a length of 16 or 18 awg wire and solder it to the fuse clip and to your pop bumper. That'll bypass all the traces and connectors. Then see what the response is. This is only as a diagnostic tool don't leave it like that. If it's still weak briefly ground the other lug of the coil to the ground braid with another piece of wire and monitor the strength of the coil. That'll diagnose the ground side. If still weak then it's mechanical.

To make sure I understand, I run a wire from the fuse clip (which side?) to a pop coil (which lug side?). Then turn on the game in attract mode and trigger the coil in edge test mode?

Then same thing but trigger the coil grounding the other lug to the braid like I did before?

Right?

#45 8 years ago

There is no resistance from 2P8 to the coils as well, is that mean connections are legit throughout?

#46 8 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

To make sure I understand, I run a wire from the fuse clip (which side?) to a pop coil (which lug side?). Then turn on the game in attract mode and trigger the coil in edge test mode?
Then same thing but trigger the coil grounding the other lug to the braid like I did before?
Right?

Yes....don't have the schematics in front of me but I think Grumpy outlined the supply voltage chain earlier...you want to be on the fuse side leading to the connector to your pops...not on the main voltage side so if you accidentally ground something the fuse will blow. For the coil lug grumpy also earlier identified the wire color that's the v side...it'd be opposite the ground side you say you tested before. I didn't realize you did the ground test already...if so you don't need to test ground again...just coil test with the 50v jumpered.

If you have a good set of alligator clips you can use them instead of soldering as long as they're decent gauge...

#47 8 years ago

I pulled one pop out and cleaned it up. I'm going to check the adjustment next but as I was changing the wrapper I noticed the coil was kind wound sloppily as in this picture, especially close the the lugs, like if it was once wound by hand. Does it matter?

image_(resized).jpgimage_(resized).jpg

#48 8 years ago

Robert, thanks. In the picture, that would be connect to the left side clip of the F3 fuse and to the red/white (power wire) on the coil?

Why you guys say 50v? I read in the schematics that using jumper W-4 on the aux power board supply 25v instead of 50v using W-5. May be I don't understand this part correctly as well...

image_(resized).jpgimage_(resized).jpg

#49 8 years ago

I finished rebuilding the lower pop. Will test tomorrow.

#50 8 years ago

Btw, I can't thank you guys enough. Let's figure these suckers out.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 95.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Pinball Mod Co.
 
4,495
Machine - For Sale
West Chicago, IL
$ 15.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
 
$ 109.00
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 10.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
 
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Middletown, OH
4,000 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Bay Shore, NY
$ 22.50
From: $ 3.50
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 899.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
 
$ 17.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
 
$ 899.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
 
$ 12.50
Lighting - Led
RoyGBev Pinball
 
$ 99.00
Cabinet Parts
Gizmorama Pinball
 
$ 27.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
$ 36.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here
There are 122 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-test-voltage-at-coil-weak-pop-bumpers-on-taxi and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.