(Topic ID: 88065)

How to test flipper relay on solenoid board Bally/stern

By Tridentphoto

9 years ago


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    #23 4 years ago

    Hi All. I need some help. I am having the issue raised by the OP, my flippers are dead.

    I believe I was hit by a power spike. The varistar blew but as noted in other threads, early ballys will continue to run unlike modern sterns which will blow the fuse until the varistar is replaced. The surge issue has since been resolved.

    So the flippers are dead. I grounded the tab on q15 to the braid, the flipper relay clicks and the flippers fire. Based on the 2nd issue in this post, I did some continuity testing. However I don't believe there is a pin 9 on the flipper relay as posted by Cheddar.

    If the flippers fire when grounding the q15 tab, what am I missing ? Thanks.

    Eddie

    #25 4 years ago

    Frunch...thanks for the reply. I'm going to take some time to jump into this tomorrow. I am assuming I should be looking in the area of the Q15, a SE9302. It sounds like this circuit comes into the board and then just leaves. Possibility a dumb question, but is there a chip driving this circuit ?

    Mati Hari (resized).JPGMati Hari (resized).JPG
    2 months later
    #27 4 years ago

    Frunch thanks for the above and Cheddar thanks for the link below regarding testing the 3081's.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/game-plan-mpu-repair-a-shotgun-guide-w-pix/page/2#post-2049837

    I finally got around to really getting into this machine, picked up some parts but still can't get the flipper relay to engage during bootup and game play. As before, when grounded to the Q15 tab, the relay engages and the flipper fires.

    Tested Q15 (SE9302) and replaced it with a TIP102. Tested each of the transistors in U4 (3081). Based upon the link above, they should each have readings between .65-.75. The following tested good - 16/1; 8/7 and 6/4. 13/14, 11/12, 10/9 and 3/2 (flippers) tested bad. I also compared the results with U3.

    Acquired a socket and a new 3081. Put the DMM to the 3081 before installing it and obtained correct readings. After socketing the 3081 and before putting the board into the machine, the readings are still off. The 2nd reading is to pin 15. Again, they are all based on testing per the link above.

    Red/Black - Readings
    16/1 - .729 and .729
    13/14 - .233 and .511
    11/12 - .233 and .511
    10/9 - .233 and .511
    8/7 - .732 and .732 (Right Drop Target Bank)
    6/4 - .729 and .729
    3/2 - .233 and .509 (Flipper)

    Is there a different way I should be testing these ? All readings from U3 are in the .720 to .730 range.

    During testing, I had a slight issue with the right drop target bank (Mata Hari), so I replaced all of the transistors, caps and diodes. The bank works. So my install of the socket and chip appears to be successful. Additionally, based on Mata Hari's schematics, 8/7 for the Right Drop Target Bank is the only other used in U4.

    All components in the circuit were tested, except for the diode at CR17 which reads the same as others but as I understand needs to be tested out of circuit. I was getting strange readings from CR20 at the flipper relay, so replaced it. There was no change in the readings after replacement. I also tested continuity across the circuit from J4 8 to J3 5.

    What am I missing ? Why are my readings off on U4 when I insert the chip ?

    I could really use your assistance at this point.

    Eddie

    #31 4 years ago

    Thank you both again....I'm on it and will report back.

    #32 4 years ago

    Cheddar @quench

    Cheddar and Quench. I completed the tests, with success.

    1. TP6 to Diode CR15. Flipper relay pulled in.
    2. Ground to U4 3. Flipper relay pulled in.
    3. Ground to J4 - 8. Flipper relay pulled in.

    I now assume the SDB is operating correctly.

    I will check the wire connector at J4 8 of the SDB then on to the MPU at J4 7 to look for bent connectors on the wires. I'll also look for continuity.

    It looks like the J4 7 on the MPU is for "continuous solenoid data" and connects to a a 330 resister.

    Sound about right ? Any help with whats next would be appreciated as always.

    Eddie

    #34 4 years ago

    Ok...so I have continuity across the wires. It's an mpu issue?

    I did have a surge which took out the main power varistor. Thought I would throw that in there.

    4 weeks later
    #36 4 years ago

    Hi all, been a little backed up, so I put this on the secondary list. Back at it and hoping to get the flipper issue resolved. @cheddar, per your suggestion, I swapped U10 and U11, no change.

    Just to eliminate the possibility of connectors, I again checked continuity from J4 8 of the SDB and J4 7 of the MPU. Took it one step further and tested between R37 of the SDB and R103 of the MPU which are both a little further down line from the connectors. All is well.

    Flipper relay still pulls in when grounding tab Q105. I 'assume' this tells me the power side of the circuit, the flipper relay and everything through the flipper coils are working.

    What is my next step ??

    Eddie

    #38 4 years ago

    @quench

    Thanks...yes.

    Grounding R103 of the MPU engages the flipper relay. Flippers fire when flipper buttons are pushed.

    Eddie

    #40 4 years ago

    @quench OK...so here is what I have.

    R103 - 320 (is this within range at 320 ?)

    I have continuity between the other leg and pin 16 of U11.

    Yes...the U11 socket has been changed and yes there is battery corrosion. I bought the machine about 5 years ago. It had no batteries so I added the 5101. The corrosion was there when I got it, but never really noticed how bad it was, I believe it has somewhat expanded as corrosion does. I'm learning how these boards work and had no issues in recently repairing WPC that had similar corrosion. One thing I am not as familiar with as I would like to be is the inner workings of the PIA's ie what does Pin 16 do once it gets in there ?

    I see the issues below U11. The test light CR8 works and blinks as it should on startup. Here are 2 pics. Let me know if you can see them clearly.

    P_20190923_132005 (resized).jpgP_20190923_132005 (resized).jpgP_20190923_132027 (resized).jpgP_20190923_132027 (resized).jpg
    2 months later
    #42 4 years ago

    I want to thank everyone for their input on this, but it was time to give up and get the thing running. I bought the Alltek Ultimate MPU for Bally/Stern, set it to Mata Hari, set the features and it fired right up and cleared up the flippers, flickering displays and a few other things. After an attempt to clean the board, it was acting even worse. The corrosion finally beat it.

    While I was at it, I picked up the LED flicker eliminator adapter kit. It was basically plug and play. Replaced the pop bumper skirts, added LED's and it plays fast and looks great.

    While frustrating, along with the fact I really wanted to fix it, I learned a lot in this process. My takeaway is once I cleared the SDB, that I needed to go further downstream. The tests that Quench mentioned weren't testing out correctly and it was time to pull the plug.

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