New car show room. Person looking around at the cars. Kicks a tire.

That is a sure sign of a tire kicker.

LTG : )

Nailed it

Unfortunately, it’s usually too late by the time you realize it.

Post plenty of photos of the entire machine with your ad. List all the faults you know of and include photos of them as well.

Anyone that asks for more photos...

There was a Period where tires were not as durable due to rubber strikes and bad Vulcanizing methods.

He knows, being snarky. But bottom line I think is if you’re selling a decent machine for a decent price with decent pics, buyers will be hitting you up like crazy ready to buy. If you have a guy busting balls with all kinds of questions and requests......tire kicker

Tell that guy “Thanks for your interest, goodbye”.

If a guy nickels and dimes you, and tried to tell you what YOUR game is worth.
Tire kicker.

If someone makes up stories about how they played the pin years ago and loved it soooo much when the pin is not even that old, and the person knows nothing about the pin whatsoever - asks you questions anyone who played it would know the answer to.
Ding Ding Ding----Super Tire kicker.

Can be hard to spot. First clue is if you never see money. Buyers have money.

LTG : )

1 - tire kicker
2 - keeps asking questions
3 - keeps asking for more pictures
4 - tells what they go for on Ebay
5 - tells what they can buy a better one for
6 - makes ridiculous requests like can you hold it for a month, until wife sees it, until Haley's comet returns
7 - makes ridiculous offer
8 - wants to think on it
9 - asks to see other games you aren't selling
10 - wants to play your other games ignores purchasing the one they came to see ( you aren't running a free arcade )

11 - Then there is the person that makes a reasonable offer or accepts your price in cash and can pick up within an hour.

After time you'll spot the #11 scale people quicker.

LTG : )

You could put an eye out.
Don't even get me started on split rims.

Had a guy in IN pm me about my Corvette for trade. A million questions and two different requests for pics (ps--can you send me interior pics too?). Dude. It's a 10k car for 5k.
I told him he asked too many questions, TL;DR, bye.

Once a person makes contact with you. The less time wasted in doing the deal, separates the serious buyer from the tire kicker pretty fast.

LTG : )

A million questions followed by a vague request to maybe come see it sometime. Not to buy it, just to see it and think about it. Followed up immediately with “what’s your best price”.

Yeah, no.

I remember when I first joined Pinside, I wanted a Star Trek LE. The seller asked the community if I was a "tire kicker" and never replied to any of my messages. Well.. I went somewhere else and got it instead. So I guess it go both ways, seller could be a tire kicker too.

Basically the opposite of the straight-shooter who says "I have cash in hand and a truck. When can I come get it? "

The "whats your bottom dollar?" get my blood boiling. I generally ignore but have had some luck asking what the most you will pay.

I Only negotiate price in person

Isn't a tire kicker someone that really doesn't intend to buy? In the case of pinball that would be someone that just wants to play and not buy.

I have a wish list.

My space is limited. So I have to be a bit picky. And I'm not rich.

Just fortunate.

If anything within reason of price, actual condition stated, and obtaining it without flying to the moon and back popped up and I saw it and got dibs on it?

No tire kicking.

Cash Money.

Just be honest as a seller.

Pretty simple transaction at that point.

99 times out of 100. The one time they might come through. Ain't worth the BS.

LTG : )

I disagree. I used to have a used car lot. What you absolutely want is the nickel and dimer. If he was N & D'n me that was a good signal that he wanted what I had pretty bad. I can work with a nickel and dimer. This is the back and forth as the two of us are trying to reach a price. If he is N & D'n me, that is a pretty good signal that he has access to money. He is just trying to get a better price.

He: The lot down the street has one for $200.00 cheaper.

Me: Well ,you better go buy it.

He: Yours has this scratch on the door.

Me: That's why I am selling it so cheap.

You get conversations like that. Some times you win. Some times you lose.

Here is a tire kicker:

He: How much do you want for that?

Me: I have it priced at $4,000.00.

He: Wow! That is a bargain. That will sell quick.

When I got something similar to the above I knew the idiot had no money.

He: Man, it is really nice shape. How do you get them so nice?

That's all fluff. And waste of time.

Unless you got the hot setup, when you are selling get ready to kiss some ass; It comes with the territory. Give me the nickel and dimer any day of the week. If I was wise, I had my price high enough that I can give some "money" up.

Me: Yeah, I know there is a scratch in the fender. If I knock a $100.00 off the price would that work for you.

He: hmmm.. I don't know. It is going to cost some buck to get that scratched fixed. I dunno.

Me: Tell you what, how about I knock $150.00 off. Will that help you out a little bit? Can we make a deal?

If we are anywhere close on price I can turn a nickel and dimer into a buyer.

Some of you all get all pissed off that some guy is lowballing you. Maybe you are too high on your price and you are looking for someone to pay gold for you shit. Get over it.

A lowball offer is an offer. Be nice to the lowballer. You never know who is going pull out a wad of cash.

What is not an offer is the one who asks you "would you take...?"

I'll take my asking price for it. If you want make an offer, I will sure consider it. But my price is on the windshield.

You want I.D. a tire kicker? The guy who asks "would you take?" is just farting around with you. Give him a price lower than you are asking and he will say, Thank you, I'll think about it. And now you are screwed; Now you have to hit him with "what is there to think about"? And you will get a litany of excuses. And he will still walk.
----------------------------------

That is not an offer. That is question. My best price is the price I asked for it.

Turn the tables.

What is your top dollar?
What will you give?
Make me an offer. I'll listen to any reasonable offer (reasonable being a subjective term).

I don’t enjoy negotiations. I sell at market value, below even. But the stuff I’ve bought for that pin are usually worth hundreds...I give those away with pin if person is buying without the bs. Rest is just waste of time.

I always price my games at or below market, so when people come to see a game, they already know it is a good deal, and almost never try to negotiate a lower price. Works for me, works for them.

My favorite is selling a 25 year old game, that you list as players condition, list at a good price to sell and put out pictures showing all the flaws.

You then get all sorts of questions about the flaws and the heming and hawing about really small imperfections. It’s a early 90’s game that was routed at one time. We used to call those things “character “.

Here is a situation: I had a pin I had traded for and was in a fairly good position. But then some board problems came up and I had to pay for have the CPU serviced. Anyway, I am buried in the pin, nit bad buy just a little bit.

I put a CL ad up and did the usual talk about the pin. I also said I had it priced over market price due to the work I had to pay for board repairs. I got the usual scam callers and some tire kickers. And then the ad generated no interest for awhile. No biggie. CL ads cost nothing. I am not broke. And the pin is not eating anything.

About 2 months I get a call. You can feel it when you have someone interested talking with you. The guy lives 60 miles away and he, along with his friend, want to come take a look. But he wanted to see a few more pics; Not a problem. Come on down, man! I'll be here.

They arrived in a pick up truck. Nice guys both of them. My interested prospect is 70 years old. He he used to play this pin (Laser Cue) in the bowling alley when he was a young man. So, he knew what he was coming to look at. He playing for a bit and liked it. But he was hesitant.

He lived in the country and was "scared" if he got it home and it quit working, what would he do? We do not have a lot of pin mechanics around here.

I want to sell it, of course. I told him this: I know you want this pin. You drove 60 miles to have a peek. Here is what I can do. I don't need the money if you don't buy the pin. But you can look around my house and see my problem is lack of space (I have pins everywhere in my small house). So,
if you buy this pin, I will give you 30 days to change your mind. IN 30 days or less, if you decide you don't want it, I will drive up to your house, give you ALL of your money back and bring the pin back with me. No questions asked; You get 30 days.

That was all he wanted to hear. He whipped those $100.00 bills out of his pocket so fat it took my breath away. They loaded up and were gone and I got my price.

It was all about being nice. And taking a change on someone. And it worked.

But I have had couple where it was. struggle to break even. Being nice helped make the sales.

I mean... this is basically the definitive list...

“Let me check with the wife”

I always ask "what's your best price?" People who deal with me know if I am asking that I am very serious. They also know I bring cash, dont pick the game apart for small issues, and if you are selling it for 3500 and tell me 3200, I will give you 3200.
It works the other way with me too. If you call me and ask best price and I tell you 3200, I wont renegotiate once you inspect the game.

Did you turn hem-and-haws into a buyer? No back and forth on the small imperfections? Those flaws are objections. Objections can be overcome and you can turn a prospect into a sale.

This is a completely different scenario. Like doing wholesale type selling. Relationship sales.

That makes sense. Good policy.

Guy locally was selling an Ironman VE for $5200 firm. It was on CL and Pinside. I texted him a couple of questions and he immediately got snippy thinking I was a tire kicker. I had not even had a chance to make an offer or ask if I could come and see it. The only reason I was asking question was that I was thinking the game based on the mods listed was worth $5000 or less. Looking at the pictures I noticed it looked like it had a ColorDMD even though it was not listed in the ad on Pinside. I sent him one last question via text "Does it have a ColorDMD". He never responded. I texted the next day and nothing but crickets. Too bad for him because I had just sold a game and literally had the money in my pocket to snatch up the game. The game ended up sitting unsold on CL and Pinside until the ads expired. I really wanted the game and would have given him the asking price, but after being treated like a tire kicker I put my money in the bank instead.

$5200...FIRM. No negotiations. Come pick it up. Were your questions what’s the lowest you’ll go? Or simple like any pf wear or board issues?

Just curious on the story. Not judging or picking on anyone. Reason I ask is cuz I’ve done the same thing as a seller but the first questions asked in a FIRM price are either I’m a dealer so I get a lower price or is that your best price.

Make a good add with tons of pictures and maybe a narrated video and you won’t get tire kickers or will have enough alternatives to miss the tire kickers especially if you ask for trades +/- cash instead of cash only. It has been my experience that only the newest buyers try to negotiate price on site (I did… my bad).
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/99082
I am blessed to live in the heart of pinball sales and generally if I post a for sale ad I get dozens of trade offers and maybe a couple cash offers mixed in within a day or two. Price it fairly. Trade is almost always better than cash because people will bring the pin to you. When I sold this JP, I had a full price offer overnight, but also had a couple, “what is your bottom dollar”? Guess who got the pin? Wrong! The guy who traded me an original AFM!
I’m rambling now but have never had someone come to my house for a trade and not buy a pin. If I’m unsure on a pin I’m buying I tell the guy ahead of time I will come and inspect but won’t negotiate with them on price, I’ll either take it or leave it (I’ve always taken it).

Edit:

Looking through your old ads you are plenty descriptive. Demoman looks nice and should tell you everything from photos.

My favorite tire kicker quote right after I sell the game to someone else: “I’d have given you full price”.

They will also offer you more money to jump the line, but it’s a lie because they are just wanting to get to the front to haggle first. Tire kickers are just part of selling pins. Treat them the same as any buyer and it’s fine.

Had that happen, roared with laughter when it did. You wasted my time with half a dozen e-mails and then when it sells you act indignant?

I always price stuff on CL with some wiggle room because no matter how great a price some folks will not buy unless they feel they are getting a discount. Once in awhile I'll get someone who will buy something without haggling and they always get an astounded look when I hand them half the "wiggle room" amount back. I appreciate people who don't make my life difficult and waste my time.

Last time it happened, was a guy buying our spare Wii for his kid and I handed a $20 back, guy was stoked as now he had some extra to buy his kid a second game.

On the subject of asking "what is the best you will do, cash in hand no haggle price?" I am guilty of that if the ask is on the high side, rather cut through all the BS right up front and assume other people build wiggle room into their prices as well. Not pushy about it though, if thats the best you will do then I'll either buy or gracefully step away. Badgering a seller never struck me as an effective buying technique.

Just sold a Spring Break last week for the ask, buyer was happy as a kid in a candy store and happier when he found out I did board work. Going to be some follow up on some non-pin repairs he needs done.

The tire kickers I was getting on that title were just epic.

The worst is those offering half right out of the gate and arguing it is more than fair.

No is an answer and also a complete sentence.

If you don’t like negotiating, just say no. It may take a little bit longer to sell, but you avoid the discomfort. I try to price my games fair and just wait for the right buyer.

As a buyer, I have a price in my head. If the price seems fair, I offer full price. If it seems high, I make an offer. If rejected, I make a quick decision to buy or politely decline and move on.

I prefer to treat tire kickers like the scum that they are.
Got reminded last night that there are tire kicker sellers too: They are even more annoying.

All hobbies have morons and idiots, but just seems our hobby has more than its share - especially lately.

I've encountered sellers that are not really selling. I also love sellers that immediately take a long vacation right after posting. Others like some mentioned here act like it's a huge bother to answer a few questions or send a few extra pics.

I was looking at a pin for sale and this is what was sent to me and the seller's response when questioned. The pictures were not down sampled, exactly as sent.

Block and move on.

20200830_091317 (resized).jpg

IMG_1740 (resized).jpg

IMG_1746 (resized).jpg

Shows up with a pinball price guide.

This drives me CRAZY. Sellers just “seeing what’s out there”. That is just as bad as a tire kicker buyer IMO.

The sellers adding in the usual wiggle room is perfect fodder for tire kickers. Price it to sell and it will likely sell before you even have to respond to a them. If you're expecting to come down $300-$500 why are you wasting time with such back & forth shenanigans? Are you hoping for a sucker to overpay?

answer it immediately with "whats the most you'll pay?" gets them stumped every time.