How to.. Put drop targets in your Stern (ACDC/IM/ST/TRON) Pro (SAM)


By TimeBandit

1 month ago


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  • Latest reply 9 hours ago by Mudflaps
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There are 104 posts in topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
23
#1 38 days ago

There is no reason you can't get a drop target bank in there to replace stand ups.

You need two things to happen.. Have the machine read the state of the target switches and have a way to drive the reset coil.

In this thread I am going to show you how I have managed to get fully functioning drop targets installed in my machines and how I drive the reset. It does depend on my Total Lightshow board for driving, so it's not a completely stand alone method that just allows you to buy a target bank and jam it in there and away-you-go, but I don't think anyone expects that could happen easily anyway.

I will break the install into two parts. 1 - Installing the bank and hooking up the switch matrix cables and, 2 - Hooking up the power and driver to the coil. Then I will briefly cover the creating of the drive signal.

I am going to start here now with the way I connected things using stuff I already had or could get easily, and later I will do it with the custom connector boards I have designed that neatly connect the switches as well as the power.

What you will need..

A drop target bank, available from distributors or Pinball Life or Marco, etc.
A Stern 50V step up board.
Crimps and stuff.

1 - Installing the drop bank.

I have started with the TNT targets in my AC/DC Pro VE. First thing to do is remove and desolder the stand ups. This is really easy. Just undo the mounting screws, drop them out and touch a soldering iron to the wire tabs and the wires simply drop off. They should come off as a joined pair. There are two ends coming into the solder joint and you want them to stay together.
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Tape off two of the drive wires. You only need one. They are all the same wire. You will now have one only drive wire and then one return wire for each switch.
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Install a crimp on each of these exposed wires.
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Insert into an appropriate crimp housing. Making sure you keep the return wires in the same order. You don't want to mix up the targets.
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Place the target bank against the playfield underside and line up the targets so they move correctly through the gap. Mark the holes, then remove the bank and drill pilot holes. Here, you will have to consider how the insert lamps may have to mount with the new frame in place. This will be different for every machine. In the TNT case, two of the three went straight back in and the third just required a little jiggling.
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Screw in the target bank. Make sure the targets are height adjusted and that they move freely through the gap and that they manually reset properly.
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Plug in the switch matrix plug that you made.
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Now you need to bring 5V to the target bank. You can get this anywhere. I used the square molex connector in the backbox in this case, but you could use the cabinet aux 5V, and I also have 5V sources on the TLS board.
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2 - Powering and driving the reset coil.

You need 50VDC, ground and 20VDC. I pushed into the unused pin 8 on J10 for the 50V. I put a 3A fuse in F7, which is a lower rating than the factory 4A and is the same as the fuse used in the other coil circuit. I pushed into pin 2 on the same connector for the ground.
IMG20171015215934 (resized).jpg
20V I got from the flasher circuit. I built a piggyback cable so the flasher can just be unplugged, my cable plugged in, and the flasher replaced, and I now have 20V. This 20V goes to the 50V step up board to tell it that it's ok to generally operate. It's not used in the actual firing.
IMG20171009224510 (resized).jpg
Now I have to make up the connector that is going to plug into the step up board. The 50V, GND, and 20V all come to this connector. The 50V continues through to the coil along with a coil ground. The coil ground only goes from the step up board to the coil. Crimp and house the coil wires so they can plug into the connector that comes on the target assembly.

The last wire that has to come to this plug is the drive signal used to fire the coil. This line needs to be sunk to ground to fire the coil. In this instance I have run this line into an isolator and then into the ground braid in the machine cabinet. I will use my TLS board to drive the gate on the isolator.
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Here is the isolator knocked up on some veroboard. Signal and ground for the gate go back to the TLS board, one of the load pins goes back to the IN line on the step up and the other to the ground braid.
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Mount the 50V step up board somewhere near your target bank.
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Plug the connector into the board.
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Plug the coil connector into the coil.
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That's all the install and connecting done. Just now take the isolator signal back to the appropriate output of the TLS Matrix Interceptor and that will send the signals for firing the coil.

Sending the firing signal.

You could do this in whatever way you want. I already have my way to do it, but someone could come up with a neat way to trigger the gate signal from another source. The install and wiring above is independent of what you want to use to send the reset signal, and will work on any SAM machine.

For those unfamiliar with Total Lightshow, very quickly, its main board, the Matrix Interceptor, reads the states of all insert lamps and switches in the machine, so I use a combination of the TNT target switch states and the TNT insert behaviour, plus new ball and new game events, to determine when to send a coil fire pulse. I use a 40ms pulse which seems to be a standard pulse length for drop resets.

That's it. The TNT drop targets are fully functioning and now the connecting just needs to be cleaned up. I am doing away with the wire running to the ground braid with a very neat little board that sits on that step up header before you plug in the harness, and I have a connector board that plugs into the back of the target assembly PCB to attach the switch wires through screw terminals rather than having to crimp. When those boards arrive I will redo that part of the installation and put the new pics up.

The next machine I will detail is Tron. And then I am going to have a crack at Iron Man.

#2 38 days ago

You don't stop @timebandit !!! Often wondered if this would be possible, and now I know.

What about Spike 2???? Would love some drops in B66.

#3 38 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

What about Spike 2???

Not this way. I don't touch Spike anyway. But that's another story.

#4 38 days ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

Not this way. I don't touch Spike anyway. But that's another story.

Are you planning to offer the parts/wires as a package to purchase?

I’m comfortable getting under the hood, but not building wires, pigggybacks, etc.

#5 38 days ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

Are you planning to offer the parts/wires as a package to purchase?
I’m comfortable getting under the hood, but not building wires, pigggybacks, etc.

Yes, and I will update the procedure here with those bits when they arrive. Hopefully next week sometime.

#6 38 days ago

Hmm, that is very interesting. I will be very curious to see how the iron man drop retrofit goes - that would make for a sweet upgrade.

I was thinking it would nice to retrofit drops in place of the Navi targets on my Avatar, but on second thought I think in this case it would make the game significantly harder, as the entire target bank acts as one for multiball jackpot and certain mode jackpots. Though I wonder if the logic could be set to immediately reset the bank during those instances instead of waiting for bank completion...

#7 38 days ago
Quoted from PinKopf:

Though I wonder if the logic could be set to immediately reset the bank during those instances instead of waiting for bank completion..

Yes it can. During TNT there is a jackpot for any target hit, and I reset it immediately and correctly.

#8 36 days ago

Did you buy all the 3 bank drop targets from pinballlife? I couldn’t find them.

#9 36 days ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

Did you buy all the 3 bank drop targets from pinballlife? I couldn’t find them.

I'll come clean. Yes. He only had three though. I haven't been too much of a pig. I have four and five bank assemblies on order through my distributor. Marco has three-banks in stock.

#10 35 days ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

I'll come clean. Yes. He only had three though. I haven't been too much of a pig. I have four and five bank assemblies on order through my distributor. Marco has three-banks in stock.

Hoarder!

j/k I was trying to get ahead by ordering a few parts. I’ll sit on my hands.

#12 35 days ago

IM would be cool, ST would be even better

#13 35 days ago
Quoted from Beyndtstng:

IM would be cool, ST would be even better

Yeah I'm doing the ST lock targets.
Can't wait to sweep that whole bank from the right lower flipper.

#14 35 days ago

Coil firing boards are here. This gets rid of the stray ground connection.

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#15 35 days ago

And here is the connector board to get your switch matrix cables into the target bank assembly. Ignore the 6 way terminal block. My 4s haven't arrived so I just stuck a 6 on there to give you the idea.

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#16 35 days ago

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#17 35 days ago

And this is all you need from me. I will have this stocked as a kit to add on to TLS kits.

1x coil driver board
1x drop switch connector board
1x coil power harness
1x coil signal cable
1x drop bank power cable (not in pic, sorry)

From stern you get your drop bank assembly and a 50V step up board.

Plug and play (in conjunction with TLS) drops.

IMG20171019115710 (resized).jpg

#18 35 days ago

TimeBandit = Genius

#19 35 days ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

And this is all you need from me. I will have this stocked as a kit to add on to TLS kits.
1x coil driver board
1x drop switch connector board
1x coil power harness
1x coil signal cable
1x drop bank power cable (not in pic, sorry)
From stern you get your drop bank assembly and a 50V step up board.
Plug and play (in conjunction with TLS) drops.

Dude, your stuff is brilliant.

#20 34 days ago

In case you were wondering how I did the rubber. Yes, it clears the pop bumper.

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#21 34 days ago

Lol, my connectors just arrived. Here's the proper switch connector..

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#22 34 days ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

In case you were wondering how I did the rubber. Yes, it clears the pop bumper.

What size is the rubber?

#23 33 days ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

What size is the rubber?

Dang it. I didn't measure. I'll report back.

#24 33 days ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

Yeah I'm doing the ST lock targets.
Can't wait to sweep that whole bank from the right lower flipper.

Exactly! Looking forward to it.

#25 32 days ago

Great Mod

Will this work on Tron and STLE too?

#26 32 days ago
Quoted from moTiv8:

Great Mod
Will this work on Tron and STLE too?

I have TronLE and like the pro better as far as speed. I wouldn't put drops in the pro. Plus the cutout is not the same.

#27 32 days ago
Quoted from hank527:

Plus the cutout is not the same.

The cutout is 121.5mm x 16mm on both.

#28 32 days ago
Quoted from moTiv8:

Will this work on Tron and STLE too?

Tron should be fine. I am just waiting on a 4 bank assembly for final testing. STLE I don't know. I am testing on the lock targets on a ST Pro. The bank is a tight fit at the cutout, with very little room for misalignment. There is about 1mm clearance at either end, and I will have to be a little creative with a post at the top end. 50V source is also more difficult on ST as pin8 on J10 is populated and there is no immediately free 50V source. I am making a splitter to go on one of the other coil plugs.

#29 32 days ago

@timebandit any idea if you could make this work on games that would need a 5/6 drop bank? Thinking this would be awesome on to add to my BM66LE.

Would love to add Drops to my IM as well, as usual man you have created yet another mod that is madly creative

#30 32 days ago
Quoted from J85M:

timebandit any idea if you could make this work on games that would need a 5/6 drop bank? Thinking this would be awesome on to add to my BM66LE.
Would love to add Drops to my IM as well, as usual man you have created yet another mod that is madly creative

The size of the bank is no problem. If there are two reset coils on a larger bank, you simply fire both of them. I am going to put the 5 bank in my AC/DC.

It won't work on Spike games.

#31 32 days ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

The size of the bank is no problem. If there are two reset coils on a larger bank, you simply fire both of them. I am going to put the 5 bank in my AC/DC.
It won't work on Spike games.

Reckon there is any chance you can get a Spike version running? or is there a technical limitation with Spike?

#32 32 days ago
Quoted from J85M:

Reckon there is any chance you can get a Spike version running? or is there a technical limitation with Spike?

If you separate the job into two main parts..
1) installing and powering the assembly and
2) sending the reset signal,

..then, at the moment, considering part 2, there is no alternative for firing the reset coil to using a Total Lightshow kit, and that doesn't and will never work on Spike.

For part 1, all the voltages are different on Spike, and the connection points are all different, so again, this way won't cut it.

It would be its own project to get it going for Spike, not a modification of this one.

#33 32 days ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

If you separate the job into two main parts..
1) installing and powering the assembly and
2) sending the reset signal,
..then, at the moment, considering part 2, there is no alternative for firing the reset coil to using a Total Lightshow kit, and that doesn't and will never work on Spike.
For part 1, all the voltages are different on Spike, and the connection points are all different, so again, this way won't cut it.
It would be its own project to get it going for Spike, not a modification of this one.

Thanks for the reply. I am definitely interested in doing this to my Ironman and Avatar.

#34 31 days ago

This is how I spend my Sunday evenings, lol. I have to get out more. Successful test of a three bank drop assembly at the lock targets in ST Pro. I couldn't wait for my next assemblies to arrive so I took the only one I have out of AC/DC, haha.

Short version.. 50V comes from another coil as no pin available in the backbox, post screws near the targets get in the way a bit, and yet to decide on how to fit a rubber for behind the targets.

Fits in alright..
IMG20171022224922 (resized).jpg
.

Post screws will need some thought..
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.

Same, easy switch connection as AC/DC..
IMG20171022224913 (resized).jpg
.

Same 20V from flasher circuit..
IMG20171022224858 (resized).jpg
.

Pin 8 on J10 is populated, so for the 50V I decided to make a splitter, just like the splitters everyone uses at the aux power output near the coin door, to use on another coil connection..
IMG20171022224738 (resized).jpg
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.

50V step up with coil driver attached fits here..
IMG20171022224830 (resized).jpg
.

Ground and 20V come in as in AC/DC, and coil ground goes out to join the 50V supply from the splitter..
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.

And here they are above the playfield..
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#35 31 days ago

And video of them working. This is with a manual trigger, using a battery on the signal wires that go back to the TLS main board. I haven't coded my TLS board yet to send the pulse. But all targets register properly in the switch test. Top post is not screwed all the way in.

» YouTube video

#36 31 days ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

And video of them working. This is with a manual trigger, using a battery on the signal wires that go back to the TLS main board. I haven't coded my TLS board yet to send the pulse. But all targets register properly in the switch test. Top post is not screwed all the way in.
» YouTube video

I hope (for your sake) that you're better at aiming the ball with flippers than you are by hand.

Nice work on these!

#38 31 days ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

Tron should be fine. I am just waiting on a 4 bank assembly for final testing. STLE I don't know. I am testing on the lock targets on a ST Pro. The bank is a tight fit at the cutout, with very little room for misalignment. There is about 1mm clearance at either end, and I will have to be a little creative with a post at the top end. 50V source is also more difficult on ST as pin8 on J10 is populated and there is no immediately free 50V source. I am making a splitter to go on one of the other coil plugs.

Thank you for all your work.

I am very excited about how it will work on Tron.

great Job on ST

#39 31 days ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

Dang it. I didn't measure. I'll report back.

Any word on this? Ordering parts now.

Also, is a code update required for ACDC or will TLS currently send the required signals?

#40 31 days ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

Any word on this? Ordering parts now.
Also, is a code update required for ACDC or will TLS currently send the required signals?

2 3/4

IMG20171023093820 (resized).jpg

I also advise installing the rubber like this..
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Then screw in the rear right playfield screw first, then all the other screws, then pull the rubber down around the plastic and into place. It's a nightmare to get that back post in if there is tension on the rubber.

#41 31 days ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

Also, is a code update required for ACDC

Yes. I will send you a link to the code. It's not on the website yet.

#42 30 days ago

Drops for Aerosmith would also be insane. You need to do a Spike one TB. Gonna keep spamming this thread until u do.

1 week later
#43 21 days ago

Almost there..

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#44 20 days ago

So, these posts were just waiting there under the plastic. Very interesting..

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#46 20 days ago

Replacement drop targets are about to be out of stock everywhere!

#47 20 days ago
Quoted from koops:

Replacement drop targets are about to be out of stock everywhere!

That’s true. I had to pay more through Marco, so these may become a hot commodity.

#48 20 days ago

Iron Man is impressive.

#49 20 days ago

Looks awesome. When are those Lightshow kits going to be back in stock?

#50 20 days ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

So, these posts were just waiting there under the plastic. Very interesting..

Never noticed those posts before, like you said very interesting....

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