I mean it as a form of getting paid for a pinball machine. Is there any risk for the seller if payment is made through western union?

Great thread!

I just had the experience of running into a scammer on Craigslist. "is the pinball still for sale?" then I replied with "yes", "I'll send you a check in the mail for the full amount you are asking, when the check clears, I will send my people to pick it up. I need your full name that as it should appear on the check and your address, OK!" Since I've been around the block a little I realized this was too easy. I looked up the number, the area code is for Bainbridge, WA. A lot of con numbers come from that area code. So, I gave them the name of the head of the local FBI office in Seattle address and the persons the name in charge there. They replied with..."I can't use that address, if you give me a real address I'll send you a check, otherwise I'm done". I replied.."I was hoping you were better than that"..

I may not have everything word for word, but the basics are there...

So, anyone selling needs to read this thread and be careful! This experience was with a crappy con artist, and was easy to spot! Didn't ask for pictures,did it all through text, didn't ask any questions, and it was almost automated, as soon as I sent a text, they replied almost instantly, no one can type that fast! They are pre written texts for the most part, I think. Some are really good and convincing!!

ebay generally rules in the buyer's favor in disputes, and payment is made through paypal anyway.

Thanks!

What about accepting western union as a form of payment for selling a pin? Any chance you can get scammed?

Good to know this is a good a secure form of payment.....so no way for them to make disputes to try to scam the seller if they pay thru WU?

Wow! Great info Vid! Thanks!!!

Yep. Nobody in their right mind will send money to someone other than a family member (who you are damn sure you want to have the money) using WU though

True that. Selling pins is soo difficult

I just don't understand how there are so many dealers and people (especially dealers) selling pins on ebay when they know they are open for a scam. Aren't they afraid something like that could happen? Or are they just clueless?

You don't *have* to use PayPal to take payment.

I love this kind of stuff. Anyone else into "Hoax Hotel". This guy goes out of his way the eff with scammers. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnNlJNSRxa3PF8XrKHOEPug

You mean when you sell on ebay?

Pinball dealers don't "sell" on ebay. They advertise on ebay.

What do you mean?

The ads are there, the "buy it now" option is there. Anybody can choose it buy it now and must pay via paypal no? Thanks

He's saying that noone actually BUYS those machines. 99% of them - the newer games at any rate - are horribly overpriced.

You can still message the seller and make a cash-on-pickup arrangement.

Very true guys!!! Wow! Them dealers are cleaver!

Cleaver? As in a meat cleaver? Or leave it to Beaver Cleaver?

Or did you mean "CLEVER"?

Just a typo...

My phone types the words for mw in advance...

Have a long distance buyer for my fish tales who seems legit, but he wants to pay via PayPal gift and have someone pick it up for him. It's not a Nigerian scam so let's not go there. Guy has been on pinside a while and has ties to the industry. I'm just not comfortable with PayPal and am insisting on cash or a bank wire. Am I making the purchase a hassle? I feel a wire transfer is a simple 5 minute thing to do. What would you do?

I *always* say no to paypal for large amounts. It can always be charged back.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-not-get-ripped-off-in-pinball-vids-guide#post-1813448

The person who picks it up pays you in cash. Pretty simple. Buyer is already trusting the shipper with the game.

Another test case. Cashier's check in my name from a Wells Fargo in another US state- deposited by my buyer into my Chase bank account. I get a picture of the check and the deposit slip into my account. I call the number on the bottom left and reach Wells Fargo's automated validation number. I press multiple prompts and get to a person who verifies the check is legit and in process. After the funds are available- on Wednesday, presumably- when can I say I'm legitimately in the clear? Would a visit to a local Wells Fargo branch conclude 100% the funds have been actually transferred and not subject to charge-back?

I've had phone conversations and texts with the buyer- every indication a true gentleman and a fellow pinhead in every sense of the word. Just want to be fully sure no surprises at this point, especially since I originally insisted on a wire- but in the end he opted on his own for the Cashiers to save the $50 wire fee.

There's a big difference between funds being available and the check actually clearing.

Right. So when can I legitimately say this check has actually cleared. Can a local Wells tell me?

If you're going to visit a Wells Fargo just cash the check at Wells Fargo and deposit the cash in your account at Chase.

The scenario you describe is best answered by a bank employee. If that employee has zero accountability they may not be motivated to provide the correct information.

If I absolutely had to take a cashier's check I would go to MY bank and get the details in writing by someone you trust or at least someone who has authority and accountability at the bank.

My feeling exactly. Wire transfer, cash or nothing. Makes me suspicious if people only want to pay via paypal. Buyer can transfer funds from paypal to their bank, then initiate a wire transfer, very simple.

Alright, I just told the buyer I'm going to wait at least 3 weeks if the check is how it has to be- period. Hopefully he's cool with the wait or will stop the check and commute it to a wire, like originally asked.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-not-get-ripped-off-in-pinball-vids-guide#post-1813449

Did nobody here read the original posts in this thread?

The wire scam described in this post appears to be a limited carve-out thats really just a cashier's check in disguise.
Generally, a real wire is one way and done- and it says "wire" on the pay line- and with the fee attached.

My protocol for a cashier's check works like this.

1. Buyer has to have a branch of his bank within a reasonable distance of me and my bank.

2. We go to HIS bank together and I *watch him* get the cashier's check. They deduct the funds from HIS account on the spot.

3. We take said check to MY bank. I ask them for immediate funds availability, and THEY confirm the check is good. This results in the funds having *no* hold at my bank (yes, even if it's for something big like a car or boat!)

4. I give him a *notarized* bill of sale (two copies), and it is notarized at *my* bank. This requires the BUYER to produce identification at my bank so the notary can stamp it. I now have positive identification, he has a bill of sale, and I have money. The property can now change hands.

Is it POSSIBLE for him to try to stop the cashier's check in this instance? Yes, but it's (1) difficult, as his bank KNOWS it has been cashed and cleared, and they verified it and (2) BOTH institutions saw BOTH of us and have us BOTH on video and (3) I have *POSITIVE* identification on the buyer, confirmed by a notary who stamped the copy of the bill of sale that I have retained. If he tries it my next act is to send the Sheriff over to explain the words "Grand Theft" to him.

Wires are safer but the fees are higher. Most banks will issue a cashier's check for $5 or $10; wire fees are frequently in the $25 range and some banks charge to *receive* wires (which is a rather jackass charge, but some do it.)

I'm not sure you have read those posts carefully. A wire transfer is very safe if you know what to look for. As Vid notes, an overnighted check deposited in your account can look like a wire transfer so you need to watch to see how the funds arrive and/or whether an incoming wire transfer fee is applied to your account. A wire transfer is among the safest forms of payment for a seller, but it's not bulletproof if you don't pay attention.

Yes I have, and as I stated, a traditional wire that is actually a wire and not a disguised check.. anyways.

So it seems the check can't be stopped at this point. Not the outcome or situation I or my buyer wanted, but such is the situation sometimes when someone insists on saving $50 and I don't put my feet down. Ugh.

I couldn't have done this in person with him, he lives in another state, as before.

I called and confirmed at the Wells that this check was drawn on the date the check is stated, issued to me and that the funds were sent. Only stop at this point can be for lost or stolen, if stolen they'd have to prove funds didn't go to me. Since this was deposited in my account by the account holder of the check, that wouldn't be an issue.

What is so hard about cash (and perhaps, ass & grass, as we would have said in my day)?

If someone offers checks, bank things, PayPal, or anything else, but can't make it green, then they don't have the cash.

Cash. Money. Federal Reserve Notes. $$$. Don't take anything else and you won't get ripped off. Pretty simple if you ask me.

People demand paypal because they want to use a credit card to buy. Any time you take payment via credit card (paypal, square, etc.), you are subject to a charge back.

If someone needs to use a credit card, they can do a cash advance at their own bank and deposit the cash in your bank. Now this opens them up for the loss, not you.

No wonder I can't get anyone to sell to me. I've offered several of these forms of payment in exactly the ways described in the original post. I must sound like a complete scammer. Problem is... I'm legit. I'm new to buying and am trying to get my hands on a LOTR... will be my first pin. I can't find one in my area so now what? Am I safe to buy from a dealer with a check? Waiting for my check to clear sucks, but I can handle it. However, I don't want my check to get cashed and receive no machine. If I check the business reputation and address with the BBB am I gtg? This is a machine that I saw on Ebay but the dealer is willing to sell for less privately. All help is appreciated. When I finally convinced my wife that I "needed" this pin... I had no idea how difficult it would be to actually buy one. Dealer store is here:
http://www.pinballandmore.com/

Contact r5g here on pinside. He's got an LOTR for sale on Mr. Pinball for $5500 (I think). HUO. He's in Reno, if you don't mind going that far (about 250 mi from Pleasanton CA). I'm sure he'll only take cash though

You should start a thread asking about the reputation of that particular seller. You may not want to buy there.

This is really funny. I have purchased 3 pins on pinside. The first two were ads that I responded to with "I'll buy the game for asking price." and then gave them my phone number and email and we worked it out from there. In both cases I paid them in full through a paypal gift immediately and then set up shipping through STI. Also, I'm a doctor (no, seriously, an MD). I had to figure out a way to build a reputation on here so I took some major risk. I was a little sick about it at first but both deals turned out great!

I was looking in this area because I wanted to find out how I should really handle these transactions where the game is shipped without getting scammed because I might not always be so lucky as I was the first two times.

I always thought those emails from Nigeria were from some pretty dumb people, using USD and saying an "agent" will pick it up etc. I am 100% sure that's the case. Saying that this is their way of weeding out the smart people and getting the "dumbest" to respond is sort of a ridiculus statement. What sort of smart person would spend his days emailing stupidity scam emails. BUT: Be careful out there please, questioning and caution are definitely warranted I agree with that.

Might want to reconsider that 100% sure thing. Unless you think a Microsoft research paper is ridiculous (please note correct spelling of ridiculus).

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-email-scams-written-in-broken-English

I don't see it that way with regard to cashier's checks, and I think they are a safe method of payment. I think from my understanding of the Uniform Commercial Code, which I admittedly haven't read in some time, some things have been misstated. But the basic principles of negotiable instruments haven't changed.

A cashier's check is not drawn on the buyer's or payor's account, it is drawn on a separate principal account both maintained and owned by the issuing bank or entity. You go to the bank, you fill out a form, you pay a fee and hand them your cash, or it is drawn IMMEDIATELY from the buyer's account. It is placed in the issuer's account, customarily the bank. The bank then issues the draft, secured by funds that are now in the bank's own secured account.

A cashier's check has historically been a preferred method of secure payment (in large monetary transactions, real estate closings, stock and securities purchases, etc.) as it is considered a cash equivalent in an alternate form. It is guaranteed by the issuing entity, and FDIC insured. As far as I know or have ever seen (again, not having read the UCC since law school), payments cannot be "stopped" or charged back on a cashier's check.

Now if you accept a cashier's check issued by "Joe's Bank" that looks sketchy...well..that is your problem.

Cash on the glass is always a good way to make a deal happen. Doesn't work well for long distances of course.