(Topic ID: 98967)

How to Not get Ripped Off in Pinball - Vid's Guide


By vid1900

4 years ago



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    Topic index (key posts)

    13 key posts have been marked in this topic

    Post #1 Beware of con artists Posted by vid1900 (4 years ago)

    Post #2 Checks take 3-4 weeks to clear Posted by vid1900 (4 years ago)

    Post #3 PayPal caveats, loopholes, and scams Posted by vid1900 (4 years ago)

    Post #4 Money wire scams Posted by vid1900 (4 years ago)

    Post #5 Postal money order scams Posted by vid1900 (4 years ago)

    Post #6 PayPal local pick-up scams Posted by vid1900 (4 years ago)

    Post #7 Use an Internet Escrow Service Posted by vid1900 (4 years ago)

    Post #8 Photos & proof of game condition Posted by vid1900 (4 years ago)

    Post #126 Tips on detecting a scam Posted by vid1900 (4 years ago)

    Post #345 How to not get ripped off when listing a game for sale Posted by vid1900 (12 months ago)

    Post #346 Meeting to sell the game Posted by vid1900 (12 months ago)

    Post #350 Headaches after a sale Posted by vid1900 (12 months ago)


    Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

    There are 385 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 8.
    109
    #1 4 years ago

    (To avoid scams when people pick up games in person, jump to here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-not-get-ripped-off-in-pinball-vids-guide/page/7#post-4366586 )

    PROFESSIONAL CON ARTISTS

    =================================

    These guys really are pros. They make their living ripping people off. They use the very roots of human nature - Greed, False Beliefs and CONfidence to steal from you.

    Professionals have NO shame in taking your money. They believe that you are rich and they are poor.
    Now on to the true story:

    -----------------------------------

    You are selling your TAF on Craigslist, Mr. Pinball or Pinside. You have it listed for $7,000. It's a high price, but you left wiggle room so you can haggle.

    You get a bunch of emails. Tire kickers, Choggards offering you $3,500, people wanting a bunch of close up pics, people asking very technical questions, - but then one email stands out to you because they have just one simple question "Do you still have the item?" . This looks like the path of least resistance, so you answer this email first, and start the downhill process to you getting scammed.

    --------------------------------------

    (We are going to pause the story here to look at what is going on in the background.

    The email you received likely came from Nigeria, Romania or Ireland. This is where many professional "boiler room" scam operations are located.

    These Boiler Rooms send out millions of emails each day.

    They need to be efficient in sorting out likely victims over other people who are going to wise up during the process and waste their time.

    Read the above sentence again.

    You have passed the "likely victim" test. You answered an email that no normal person would ever answer. You answered an email that does not even name the title of the item for sale.

    They asked about "THE ITEM". Not the Adams Family, not pinball table, not even "the game".

    They asked about "THE ITEM"; and you, like an idiot, replied to them.

    The people working in the boiler rooms **could** just put the name of the item into the email, and that, of course, would draw in more responses . But they don't want more responses, they want responses from the dumbest people. And the dumbest people will be the ones who answer someone inquiring about "The Item". See how you passed the test? You have been pre-qualified to be scammed.

    Back to the story.)

    ------------------------------------------

    So in a few hours the "buyer" has sent you a reply to your email.

    He says that he is satisfied with the condition of the item and feels the price is fair at the agreed upon $7000 USD.

    He would like to buy it!

    He is currently traveling abroad on business, so his agent will pick up the game once the payment clears your bank.

    He asks for your name and address to make the Cashier's Check or Money Order out to.

    He signs the email with a "God Bless" and his name is Dr Richard Smith.

    You call out to your wife with joy "Honey, the guy is going to buy the game and is not even coming out to look at it!!!

    --------------------------------------------

    ( At this point, any intelligent person would see so many red flags that they would never reply to that email. But not you, you are blinded by greed. You are going to get top dollar for your game!

    Let's look at why that email is toxic to people of normal intellect:

    1. He says he is satisfied with the condition of the game.

    Did he ever ask you any questions about the game's condition? No.

    Did he ever ask for more pictures? No.

    Would any real person buy something for $7000 and not ask a few questions about its condition? No.

    But you just "figure" the guy is rich and too busy to ask normal questions.

    2. Agreed upon $7,000 USD.

    Have you EVER used the term "United States Dollars" in a normal transaction? No.

    This would tell you that the sender of the email is very unfamiliar with the way US citizens converse about currency.

    "Agreed Upon" Did you guys ever discuss the price? No.

    3. Price is FAIR

    Your price is high. There are 20,000 TAFs in the world and this guy found you, and your high price, and now wants it without seeing it? You believe this? Really?

    4. He is currently traveling on business

    If you were traveling, would that be the time you were also shopping for a major purchase like a $7,000 used pinball machine?

    Would that be the ideal time in your life to get Cashier's Checks made up? When you are in another country, far from your bank?

    It's not like he was traveling in your neighborhood and saw it at your garage sale.

    A suspicious person might think it was a convent situational set up to scam you. But not you, you are going to get top dollar for your game!

    5. His "agent" is going to pick up the game

    His agent? What is he a famous author or a rock star?
    Again, normal Americans would say a shipper will pick up the game, never their agent.

    6. The payment has to clear your bank first.

    Here is the CONfidence part of the con.

    How could it be a scam, if the payment is going to clear your bank first?

    He can't take the money back once the check clears, right?

    He is actually trusting YOU that you won't just keep the money and the machine. He has confidence in you! You like that.

    7. Cashier's Check or Money Order

    Here is where the False Beliefs part of the scam comes in.

    We all know that Cashier's Checks are "as good as cash", right? (NO!)

    We all know that Money Orders clear the bank in two days, right? (NO!)

    We all know that as soon as your bank statement shows the funds are available, the Check has cleared, right? (NO! How friggin' stupid can you be ????)

    If you only come away from this guide with one idea in your head, make it this one:

    PERSONAL CHECKS, CASHIER'S CHECKS AND MONEY ORDERS ALL TAKE 3-4 WEEKS TO CLEAR YOUR BANK !!!!!

    Got it?

    Your bank is not special.

    The teller at the bank knows nothing about the length of time a check takes to clear. Tellers are minimum wage workers who cash your payroll checks - same as Rocco at the party store.

    8. He is a Doctor and says "God Bless"

    Here is the CONfidence game again.

    He is a Doctor. We like to trust doctors. We often trust doctors with our very lives.

    He says "God Bless". He is a religious man. We often feel more trust towards people who are deeply religious. Thou Shall Not Steal, and all that…..

    Back to the story.)

    ---------------------------------------------

    So you have sent the good Doctor your name and address and now he has OVERNIGHTED you the check.

    Wow, you are impressed. He must REALLY want you game, because overnighting anything costs money!

    And look at that, instead of $7,000 he made the check out for $8,700 !!!!!

    Sheesh, this guy has so much money, he does not know what he is doing with it. No wonder he is paying top dollar for your game.

    You email the doctor and he gushes with embarrassment and apologies. He got your check amount mixed up with a different one he was sending. Or his bank made out the check and accidentally included the Taxes or Duty. Oh my.

    He asks that you go ahead and deposit that check. He trusts you.

    Then just send him back $1,500 and keep the extra $200 for your inconvenience. And he stresses, don't send him the money until your bank says the money has been deposited.

    ----------------------------

    (OK, I've got to ask, have you EVER, even a single time in your life, accidentally overpaid anybody by $1700 ?? No?

    How about by $100? No? It does not really happen, does it? )

    --------------------------

    You take the check directly to the bank.

    The check looks good. Thick paper, red white & blue logo, the payable amount embossed in a rainbow of ink. This check certainly was not printed on some scammers ink jet printer with all that embossing!

    The teller dutifully takes the check and gives you back a deposit ticket.

    You ask how long until that check clears and she says "Funds are generally available in 48 hours".

    Nice. You will know if that check is good in two days!

    The next day you check your balance online at lunch, and the $8,700 is not in your account yet.

    The second day it's there! The $8,700 is in your account.

    You tell your wife, who was suspicious about the whole transaction, that you were right, the check was good.

    You send an email to the Doctor and tell him the check has cleared.

    He sends you back an email apologizing that he is embarrassed to tell you, but he has been robbed while traveling! They took his Wallet, Credit Cards, and his Passport. He is in great peril.

    He needs you to Western Union that $1500 to him right away so he can pay his hotel bill! Otherwise the police are holding him for non-payment!

    You of course, feel really bad that this happened to the Doctor, so you rush out and send him back his overpayment. You feel so bad you send him the entire $1700 overpayment back.

    He thanks you for your kind help. He lets you know that his agent will be in contact with you the moment the Doctor can get everything straightened out in his life.

    You go out and buy a NIB game with your $7,000.

    Four weeks later, your wife calls you at work.

    A letter came from the bank.

    That check from the Doctor, it was fake!

    You got a chargeback for $8700 , a $30 bounced check fee. And you sent him $1700 of your own money.

    Nice.

    11
    #2 4 years ago

    PERSONAL CHECKS, CASHIER'S CHECKS, CERTIFIED CHECKS AND MONEY ORDERS ALL TAKE 3-4 WEEKS TO CLEAR YOUR BANK

    ========================================

    There is a Federal Law that states that banks have to make deposited funds available to you in 48 hours (with a few exceptions).

    That does not mean that the funds have cleared!

    Funds Available ≠ Funds Cleared <------- These are two totally different things!!!!!!

    -

    Banks don't cash checks directly from other banks.

    When you take my check from Bank of America and deposit it in your Chase Bank account, Chase does not get the cash directly from BOA.

    Instead, Chase cashes the check through a Clearing House that takes checks from many different banks. The Clearing House gets the money from BOA and then it is placed in a Chase account.

    So when scammers put odd routing numbers or international numbers onto fake checks, it can take weeks for the depositing bank to finally get the returned check stamped as the dreaded AIFI - Altered Item / Fictitious Item.

    You have probably taken a check from somebody, and then said you would ship the item as soon as the funds clear. Often the person will watch their account like a hawk and email you the moment the money is deducted from their account: "Hey, I just checked and that check cleared at 1pm today. Have you sent my package????".
    Just because the money was deducted by the clearing house, does not mean it has been cleared by the Clearing House to your bank, so don't let people rush you.

    #3 4 years ago

    PAYPAL

    ================================================

    Well, if Checks and Money Orders are fraught with dangers, Paypal must be safe right?

    Paypal is good if you are a BUYER, but you should never accept it as a seller.

    Of course if someone rips you off for $50 on a display glass you sold them, you are not going to lose much sleep, but if someone rips you off for $7000, that's a different story.

    Don't accept Paypal for payment on large items.

    There are 1000s of Paypal scams on the net, but the two that probably apply the most to Pinheads is Chargeback and Counterfeit.

    CHARGEBACK - a Chargeback is where someone files a dispute with Paypal.

    If you are a regular Paypal user, you have probably found out that it is simply the flip of a coin as to whether Paypal sides with you or not. Sometimes they ask for evidence, sometimes they don't. Sometimes it takes 2 days and sometimes 2 weeks, but however they rule, the ruling is final. There is no appeals process, no submitting more evidence, it's just a crap shoot.

    IF SOMEONE PAYS ME AS A "GIFT" THEY CAN'T FILE A DISPUTE, RIGHT?

    Ah, here is another False Belief that is exploited by scammers to steal from you.

    Paypal says that if you pay someone by "Gift" there is no disputing of the transaction through Paypal allowed. So people get the idea into their heads that this must the only safe way to accept money from Paypal.

    What Paypal does not tell you is that all the buyer has to do is file a dispute directly with their Credit Card company and then the Credit Card company will chargeback Paypal, who will then Chargeback you, the seller.

    And as a super bonus, although Paypal's dispute period is 45 days (180 days for some items), most Credit Card companies allow chargebacks for 6 months. So even months latter, you can get a chargeback from Paypal.

    If you have already removed the money from your Paypal account, Paypal will try to take the chargeback amount from any bank account or credit card you have attached to your Paypal account.

    If they can't get that money from any of those sources, they sell the debt immediately to a collection agency.

    COUNTERFEIT - Another great scam is the buyer files a dispute with Paypal that the item or a substantial part of the item is Counterfeit.

    Under Paypal's rules, Counterfeit items can not be returned to the seller - they must be destroyed by the buyer in order for Paypal to refund the purchase price.

    No one at Paypal is a expert on Pinball authenticity, so they simply request the buyer send photo evidence that the machine indeed has been destroyed, and the money is refunded to the buyer.

    You are out the machine, the shipping costs and the payment at this point.

    ---------------------------------------

    Here is the $2,500 150 year old violin that Paypal made the buyer smash in order to get a refund:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/01/04/paypal-forced-ebay-buyer-violin-counterfeit-_n_1183687.html

    11
    #4 4 years ago

    MONEY WIRING SCAM
    ===============================================

    Another favorite of the CONfidence part of the game is the Money Wiring Scam.

    Everyone **knows** that if someone wires money to your bank account, they can't take it back. So you are confident that wired money must be a safe transaction.

    But of course, that is not the case.

    Here the scam works by the buyer saying he want's to wire money to you "because it's safer for both of us".

    You give him your bank account number, your address, your bank's address and wait for the money to be wired over.

    Of course the scammer has a different plan:

    1. He overnights a check made out to you, directly to your bank's branch.

    2. The bank receives the check with your name, address and account number on it, and deposits it into your account.

    3. You check your balance and see that a deposit has been made for $7,000

    4. You believe that the money was WIRED, so you are CONfident that the funds are good.

    5. You ship or allow pick up of the item.

    6. 3-4 weeks latter, the bank gives you a Chargeback for $7,000 + a $30 Bounce Check Fee.

    -

    In the USA, most banks charge a fee of $30-50 to accept a wired money transfer. If you see your account received the $7,000 without the transfer fee - be very afraid!

    In Europe the wired money fee is often only .60 cents for the same service, so it is harder to notice such a small fee.

    #5 4 years ago

    POSTAL MONEY ORDER SCAM

    ===================================================

    Scammers tend to "know" how things work in real life vs. how everyone "understands" they should work and they exploit that gap in knowledge.

    US Postal Money Orders would seem on the surface to be a great solution:.

    You cash them in at the Post Office, so no Chargeback weeks latter from your own bank account.

    Watermarks on them to prevent forgery that anyone can see for themselves.

    Post Offices are everywhere to cash them.

    Since you are already at the Post Office cashing the check, you can ship the package at the same time.

    -

    The Scammers will say, "Cash that check at the Post Office, and send my package at the same time".

    But the Scammers know something you don't: The Post Office will almost never cash a check for more than $100. Even if you call ahead and ask them to have money on hand to cash a big check, when you get there, the employees will always say they don't have enough funds to cash it.

    So you box up the item, you drive to the Post Office, you pay for parking, you stand in line 25 minutes, you get to the desk expecting to cash the Money Order and the employee says they don't have enough funds on hand. You ask what are you supposed to do, and they tell you to simply deposit it in your own bank account (exactly what you did not want to do).

    Even though there are 30 people in line behind you, a lightbulb turns on in your head and you ask "Hey, can you at least check if it is real?". The employee begrudgingly takes the check back a second time from you and scans the check into the computer. The number comes back as a valid check in the system, so the employee says "Yep, it's real".

    With this reassurance from the employee, you decide to to ship the package as you have already drove, paid for parking and stood in line.

    The next day, you deposit the check at your bank. 3-4 weeks latter it bounces back. WTF? The check, although it was "real", was purchased as a $1 instrument. The scammers reprinted the amount on it, and passed it onto you, knowing you could not cash it on the spot at the Post Office.

    -

    No Postal Money Order is ever issued for more than $1000 - if you get one for a larger amount, it's fake.

    All PMOs have the amount printed twice - if you have one with a single dollar amount, it's fake.

    Although there are about 30 countries that accept PMOs, they are only issued from the USA. So a US PMO sent from Romania is always fake.

    -

    So if you get a Postal Money Order for more than $100, you are likely going to have to deposit it into your bank account, just like any other check. Give it a month to clear before you ship anything.

    #6 4 years ago

    PAYPAL LOCAL PICK UP SCAMS

    =====================================

    A guy calls and after a bit of conversation, he says he will buy your pinball machine!

    He allows you to share his excitement and hey, that was easy, you say to yourself.

    But just before heading over to your place, he calls and says he wants to pay you with Paypal.

    He **really** needs to pay with Paypal because:

    1. His bank is closed, and he wants your game right now.

    2. He wants to use his credit card so he gets some points, or....

    3. He needs to use his credit card, and because you are not a merchant, he can only use Paypal to buy from you.

    Hmmmm.....you say to yourself; everything involving Paypal is stupidly risky to an intelligent seller....

    "Hey! Tell you what, I'll even pay you the 3% Paypal fee ! I don't want you to have to be inconvenienced because of me. " he says, interrupting your thought. "In fact, I'll Paypal GIFT the money to you. No fees or anything!", he adds.

    Alright, you reluctantly agree. At least he is buying the game and he has not even seen it yet.

    -

    Your wife is of course skeptical, but you tell her that you are going to take down the guy's driver's license and his license plate; **just in case**.

    -

    Guy shows up, is excited about the game. He pokes at his phone paying you by Paypal.

    You check your phone, you have funds!

    You: Hey guy, can I see your driver's license, you know, just in case?
    Guy: Really??? I don't know if I'm comfortable with that. Well..I guess.... (hands you his license reluctantly ).
    You: Great, you know, can't be too careful...
    Guy: Yep, a lot of crazy people in this world, that's for sure.
    You: And....can you sign this paper stating you picked up the game?
    Guy: Wow, I did not have to provide this much documentation when I bought my house...heh heh....

    The gent leaves and you tell your wife that he was a nice guy.

    -

    Of course a day later, Paypal gives you a charge-back for the entire price of the game.

    You tell them that you have a signed receipt that the guy picked up the game, but it falls on deaf ears - Paypal does not accept non-digital tracking delivery verification.

    You call the cops and they tell you that even though the amount of money is a felony, because of the way it went down, it is a civil matter - you need to take him to court.

    Because he Paypal Gifted the money to you, his address does not appear in your Paypal account statement. Good thing you wrote down his driver's license info.

    You send registered letters to his address and they come back unsigned. You pay $50 for a name lookup and find out that they guy who came and got the game is not the guy at that address! You always though that only college kids had those fake IDs....

    -

    Paypal accounts are Phished all the time.

    People file Paypal charge-backs all the time.

    A stolen credit card number is used to put funds into an account, Paypal reverses the payment to you. Since the buyer is a "friend or family member" of yours, you are stuck trying to recover the money.

    Professional con men are ten steps ahead of you all the time.

    -

    If you take one thing away from this entire guide:

    DO NOT ACCEPT PAYPAL AS PAYMENT FOR EXPENSIVE ITEMS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

    15
    #7 4 years ago

    Internet Escrow Service

    ===============================================

    OK, if there are so many ways to get ripped off, how do you do a remote transaction and NOT get your ass ripped?

    Internet Escrow Service.

    An IES protects the Buyer AND the Seller of a pinball machine.

    1. The Buyer sends payment to the IES and the IES cashes the check for you. They verify it's good money whether it's a Check, Money Order, Credit Card, Wire Transfer..... all the worries about money scams are now the responsibility of the IES. Any currency conversions are handled automatically for overseas sales.

    2. You ship the game to the Buyer.

    3. The Buyer examines the game and makes sure it is exactly what was expected.

    4. The Buyer signs off on the game.

    5. The IES releases the money to the Seller.

    WOW, you say, that's a great service! I bet it costs a fortune ?

    Nope, even on an expensive $7,000 game, the fees are only about $100 to $160 (depending on the IES).

    Think about this, $160 to have a worry free transaction? That's a friggin' bargain!

    -----------------------------------

    Q: Is there any way I can get ripped off by an IES?

    Only if you use a fake IES.

    As a seller, only use one of the big two:

    https://escrow.com

    http://safefunds.com

    NEVER let the buyer talk you into using a different Escrow Service. They will say things like "Hey, I get a discount from fakescrow.com because I use them so much....I'll even pay the fee.", tell them you ONLY use escrow.com and if they balk, you know it was a scam.

    -------------------------------------

    Q: Who pays the Escrow fee?

    Either party can pay the fee, or you can split it between you.

    -------------------------------------

    Q: I'm really tempted to use a different IES because the fees are so low.....

    Sounds like a bad idea, but check:

    Do they have a street mailing address on their web site?

    When you look up that address on BBB.org is it a legit Escrow business?

    Do they have a toll free number?

    When you call that number does somebody instantly answer, or does it go to voicemail?

    When you run a WHOIS on their web address, was it recently registered?

    Does the WHOIS resolve to their street mailing address?

    #8 4 years ago

    PROOF OF GAME CONDITION

    ================================================

    Up until now we have been talking about all out fraud.

    Another way to get ripped off in pinball is game condition.

    A game may be described as "restored", "shopped", "great condition", "Home Use Only" or even "Mint" condition. What do those terms mean to a buyer? NOTHING. None of those terms would let you know the physical conditon of the game.

    Restored? To what level? Could mean anything from working condition to HEP condition.

    Shopped? Does that mean waxed? Cleaned? New balls?

    Home Use Only? A game that has had rusty balls rolling through it for 1 month in somebody's basement might look worse than a well cared for game that has been on route for 20 years.

    Mint? The US Mint does not make pinball games, only coins.

    The only thing that actually matters is the actual condition of the game, and to determine that, you are going to need good pictures.

    ------------------------------------

    Be VERY suspicious of:

    POSTAGE STAMP SIZED PICTURES - I'm writing this in 2015. Cell phones have been taking 2 to 10 megapixel pictures for 10 years. Even those "grandma" phones that flip open and have dedicated dial pads take 5mp pics nowadays. There is no real excuse for not being able to produce detailed, quality pictures.

    If the seller claims they just can't seem to send full size photos, remind them that Flickr, Picasa, Dropbox, Imgur and a hundred other websites offer free photo hosting. Hell, they could post them to Pinside if they wanted to.

    PICTURES TAKEN WITH THE PLAYFIELD GLASS ON - One of the best ways to obscure detail is to take the pictures through the playfield glass. The camera will tend to focus on the glass reflections, ensuring that the playfield itself is out of focus. This could also signal that the seller does not actually own the game, and is just taking pictures of a game he does not have the keys to get into.

    #10 4 years ago

    Hey, Vid - like I said before, you're awesome. Do you have your own website with this stuff? Because if you don't, you should Great info...thanks!

    (Of course, some schlub will just post that if you don't want to get ripped off, just don't buy from JJP. Any...minute...now...)

    #11 4 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    a $30 bounced check fee

    This is the greatest tragedy. Why should I have to pay because someone else gave me a bum check? OUTRAGE.

    #12 4 years ago

    would not work with me, i would have refunded him and maybe even gave him a little extra with my own fake funds. lol

    #13 4 years ago

    Now this is a MUST read.

    When it comes to tutorials...nobody's better then Vid.

    Thanks for all the hard work you put into these brothah.

    #14 4 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    You get a bunch of Choggards offering you $3,500,

    LMAO!!! Classic!

    #15 4 years ago
    Quoted from UvulaBob:

    Why should I have to pay because someone else gave me a bum check?

    Because they are a bank.

    Just like the "Overdraft Protection" scam.

    The bank charges you $39 to take your own money out of your own savings account and move it to your own Debit Card account to cover an overdraft.

    A computer does this automatically, it does not require any human intervention.

    It might cost the bank .000001 cents worth of electricity to cover your overdraft.

    If you make 8 purchases that day on your Debit Card, your bank will charge you $312 in fees.

    It is obviously better to NEVER SIGN UP FOR OVERDRAFT PROTECTION.

    If you should run your Debit Card account down to $0 without the bank's "protection", it will simply be refused by the merchant. (and that refusal would alert you to the $0 balance in your account)

    #16 4 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    (OK, I've got to ask, have you EVER, even a single time in your life, overpaid anybody by $1700 ?? No?

    How about by $100? No? It does not really happen, does it? )

    I paid my plumber an extra $100 when he was doing some work for my new septic system....last time he popped over to check a clog in the basement drain hole it was N/C.

    Always tip your contractors if they do great work!

    #17 4 years ago

    Good thing we're talking about Nigerian princes and not contractors.

    #18 4 years ago

    I think I am on thread #3 or #4 now of Vid's in my favorites....!

    #19 4 years ago

    As always, good sound logical advice. Thanks again Vid.

    #20 4 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    I paid my plumber an extra $100 when he was doing some work for my new septic system....last time he popped over to check a clog in the basement drain hole it was N/C.
    Always tip your contractors if they do great work!

    By accident?

    I mean we all tip our guys, but have you ever accidentally overpaid someone by check for $1000 or even $100?

    14
    #21 4 years ago

    No, not on accident. I said "Bro, thanks for coming out on a saturday to do this, here is an extra Hundy!"

    I only overpay escorts by accident.

    -2
    #22 4 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    No, not on accident. I said "Bro, thanks for coming out on a saturday to do this, here is an extra Hundy!"
    I only overpay escorts by accident.

    When did people start saying "hundy"? I never heard it until that TAF dudes FS thread.

    #23 4 years ago

    How is that Ultimate guide to sound boards coming along?
    This was a great humorous read though.
    Sad that adults still need to be told this.

    10
    #24 4 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    I only overpay escorts by accident.

    Open a new thread:
    How to get Ripped off by Escorts - Centerflank's Guide

    #25 4 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    No, not on accident. I said "Bro, thanks for coming out on a saturday to do this, here is an extra Hundy!"
    I only overpay escorts by accident.

    why? im pretty sure they come on saturdays too

    #26 4 years ago
    Quoted from The_Gorilla:

    When did people start saying "hundy"? I never heard it until that TAF dudes FS thread.

    Where have you been for the last 20 years?

    #27 4 years ago

    even with my approximative english, i can enjoy what you wrote and the way you wrote, even if that "story" is well knowed already...

    but in fact not so well, as every morning a gogo wake up ! we just have to try to not be that one

    #28 4 years ago

    This was attempted on a co-workers son a few years ago.
    The kid was selling auto parts. Fortunately the father was much more on the ball.
    "Look, the cashier's check is for too much money. I just have to send him a refund!"

    #29 4 years ago
    Quoted from Magic_Mike:

    Where have you been for the last 20 years?

    Seriously?? Lol. Wow. I guess I had one fly right over my head. Never saw it before. Or, maybe I just assumed the person writing it just couldn't spell that Korean car company's name?

    #30 4 years ago

    As always, a very thorough write-up. Thank you vid for sharing your knowledge (all subjects) with us.

    #31 4 years ago

    This type of scam is common. The United States Secret Service handles scams like this. If you mention the Secret Service to the buyer, you'll never hear from them again.

    #32 4 years ago

    Good Post, Vid

    Just to note:
    Even the very fist email correspondence can send up some red flags. There are some common clues which are frequently seen in many scam emails. Bad English, overuse of the lower case "i", confused first and last names (such as Smith Michael), use of honorifics/titles as "Dr.", "Sir", and "Prince" and the list goes on.

    #34 4 years ago

    I love getting those. I have quite a few fake MOs laying around. I had one guy go to the Western union place 4 times with fake numbers. He actually called me on the phone. He kept asking me to take a pic of the receipt and I kept telling him I dropped the phone in the toilet. I like the ones that text. told one guy i was on the way to send money then nothing. A day later my "wife" contacted him and told him i was in jail. He started calling and threatening when "she" told him the money was used for bail. Have fun with them.

    #35 4 years ago

    It would actually be a good read if someone like john dayhuff who buys and sells maybe 100 games a year, kept a journal. Detail the good cons, lowdown scumbags, milfs, trips in vane, horrible, and great surprises. Some of the stories that have happened to me amaze me, but you figure, I have been on 5% of the deals he has. It would be a fun book to write and read.
    The one thing that surprises me is I have never seen a pistol during a pin sale. I have been around plenty of pistols, but never at a pinball deal.

    #36 4 years ago

    What happens if you withdraw the cash from the account when the funds are available? Do the banks chase you?

    #37 4 years ago
    Quoted from PinPatch:

    What happens if you withdraw the cash from the account when the funds are available? Do the banks chase you?

    No, they just remove the next $8700

    #38 4 years ago

    http://www.419eater.com/

    I use Capt. Ulysses S. Spaulding when I bait these thieves, make them pay for the Fedex overnight but never cash the check.
    I haven't done this in years since my Mr. Pinball days but these scammers have discovered Pinside but it seems they have given up.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-nigerians-are-here

    #39 4 years ago

    The other side to this story is, where do they get the money to send you that check? They send out hundreds if not thousands of these checks. They hack businesses UPS and Fedex account numbers which get charged thousands of dollars before the business can stop them. Once the fraud is found, the carrier sucks up the cost but the good Doctor laughs all the way to his bank.

    #40 4 years ago

    I know two guys who collected fake checks and displayed them in their game rooms - each one probably had ten checks. Wonder what this scammer would have done if you returned to him a fake check ($2,100 check made out to you from another scammer that you squirreled away in a drawer). Printed on the back of the check would be "Deposit into the account of Dr Richard Smith only". A simple note slipped into the envelope reads - hope this helps, it's the best I can do on such short notice. The amount is $400 more than I owed you so please do me the favour of sending a refund check. But only after these funds clear and you have sorted your life out.

    #41 4 years ago
    Quoted from PinPatch:

    What happens if you withdraw the cash from the account when the funds are available? Do the banks chase you?

    They turn you over to a collection agency.

    In some states, you would be charged with fraud over $1500, too.

    #42 4 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    They turn you over to a collection agency.
    In some states, you would be charged with fraud over $1500, too.

    Let the collection agency take you to court (can take a long time). Show up and explain to the judge exactly what happened and that the bank should not have allowed the funds to be withdrawn. Worst case, you have to pay the amount. Best case, Judge sees you were scammed and dismisses the case.

    Have a good reason you took out the funds with backup material. Medical bills, college tuition, car transmission replacement (Ford passenger car automatics are always accepted since they fail at a high rate) etc. Pinball machine receipts or a vacation are not good examples in this case.

    The written words above do not CONstitute legal advice and were not communicated by a Law firm. It would be best if you did not follow them but instead CONtact a Law firm for advice. Preferablly one that does not advertise on teevee pedalling their service like dog food, pocket hoses, Garden Weasels etc..

    #43 4 years ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    Let the collection agency take you to court (can take a long time). Show up and explain to the judge exactly what happened and that the bank should not have allowed the funds to be withdrawn. Worst case, you have to pay the amount. Best case, Judge sees you were scammed and dismisses the case.
    Have a good reason you took out the funds with backup material. Medical bills, college tuition, car transmission replacement (Ford passenger car automatics are always accepted since they fail at a high rate) etc. Pinball machine receipts or a vacation are not good examples in this case.
    The written words above do not CONstitute legal advice and were not communicated by a Law firm. It would be best if you did not follow them but instead CONtact a Law firm for advice. Preferablly one that does not advertise on teevee pedalling their service like dog food, pocket hoses, Garden Weasels etc..

    Unfortunately, it won't work.

    Your credit score will be hit long before you see a court. So your home and auto insurance will both substantially go up in price. So will any interest rates you pay on your credit cards (I hope you guys are not buying pinball machines if your credit cards are not paid up...).

    It will be in a real court, not small claims, so you will need to retain an attorney for even more money out of your pocket.

    -

    It's just like when people try to withdraw the Paypal balance before Paypal charges it back. Paypal instantly sends it to collections, their credit rating is ruined, then they lose in court a year and a half latter.

    #44 4 years ago

    Amusing, succinct and overly simplistic tutorial Vid. I mean that with love brother.

    Hope most guys buying or selling anything sight unseen would exercise cautious optimism and not freelance stupidity.

    I feel if most here can and do buy luxury pinball machines that they have this scamming figured out. 8-0

    #45 4 years ago

    as told by some, as Joekiss, to scam a scamer could be very funny (but dangerous too, dont be fool)
    for those who're understanding french, you have quite wonderfull vengeance here :

    http://croque-escrocs.forumparfait.com/

    #46 4 years ago
    Quoted from underlord:

    I feel if most here can and do buy luxury pinball machines that they have this scamming figured out.

    I wish that were the case, but the "I got ripped off" posts here every week sadly indicate otherwise.

    #47 4 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Unfortunately, it won't work.
    Your credit score will be hit long before you see a court. So your home and auto insurance will both substantially go up in price. So will any interest rates you pay on your credit cards (I hope you guys are not buying pinball machines if your credit cards are not paid up...).
    It will be in a real court, not small claims, so you will need to retain an attorney for even more money out of your pocket.
    -
    It's just like when people try to withdraw the Paypal balance before Paypal charges it back. Paypal instantly sends it to collections, their credit rating is ruined, then they lose in court a year and a half latter.

    Couldn't care less about my credit score as I'm done financing stuff at this stage in my life. Buy auto insurance for a month and then let it lapse. Just enought to register a car for a year. Figure you get pulled over once a year for speeding or something so the no insurance ticket is $350.00 (not that I know anything about this) which is still way less than even basic liability insurance that I only carry.

    I was hit in WisCONsin awhile back stopped for a traffic jam on a freeway. Car behind me stopped too. Car comes from behind and slams into him, he hits me and pushes me into the car in front. My car, a rental, was driveable. Within a few days I got six letters from attorneys. One advised me (and the other two parties with damaged cars) that the one who caused it, a 20 YO chick, had no insurance or money so don't bother suing her, the others all wanted to represent me to sue her anyway for damages.

    I was on COmpaNy bidness, we are self-insured, my cost center had to pay the $4500 to fix my rental even though I was in no way at fault. Another reason not to waste money on insurance. Even if I was in a personal car with coverage, I may have to pay a deductible. Insurance COmpaNies usually go after the other insurance COmpaNy to get the deductible or sue the at fault driver if uninsured.

    #48 4 years ago

    So, this was useful to sort out what NOT to do, even if a lot of it was info. everyone should know.
    But what about "how to sell a high priced machine"?
    Should I be just as leery about Bill from Oregon?
    Or is the answer to only sell local, cash only, meeting in a public space?

    #49 4 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    I wish that were the case, but the "I got ripped off" posts here every week sadly indicate otherwise.

    #50 4 years ago
    Quoted from DNO:

    So, this was useful to sort out what NOT to do, even if a lot of it was info. everyone should know.
    But what about "how to sell a high priced machine"?
    Should I be just as leery about Bill from Oregon?
    Or is the answer to only sell local, cash only, meeting in a public space?

    It's coming, don't worry.

    Only so many hours in the day......

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