(Topic ID: 220744)

How to make older game 2 coins per credit?


By dyopp21

9 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 30 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by Surf_Champ
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 7 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

IMG_1296 (resized).JPG
IMG_1297 (resized).JPG
IMG_1295 (resized).JPG
Help (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png
Untitled (resized).png
Screenshot_20180708-181204_Drive (resized).jpg

#1 9 months ago

For an older game that you would like to make $.50 but the system itself doesn’t support anything other than “one coin, one credit,” does anyone know of a way to do this mechanically? Possibly with a coin mech that diverts every other coin? Does such a thing exist? Or just any suggestion on how to do this?

#2 9 months ago

Search for pinball coin doublers.

LTG : )

#3 9 months ago

Depends. EM or SS?

#5 9 months ago

I found the coin doubler but only for WPC. This would be for an old EM and one possibly for an old SS.

#6 9 months ago

From looking at that arcticle it appears to do opposite of what I need anyway. It makes one coin equal two pulses. I need two coins to equal one pulse.

#7 9 months ago
Quoted from dyopp21:

I found the coin doubler but only for WPC. This would be for an old EM and one possibly for an old SS.

For EMs, you need to wire in something else to be the 'memory' of if one or two coins have been put in. I've heard of people using score reels or alternator units that are energized by the coin switch, and every other pulse they also let the signal through to the machine.

Most SS I've seen have a 2 coins / 1 credit option. What one do you need it for? A small solid state circuit equivilant to the EM one above could also be made, though I don't know of any pre-made ones.

#8 9 months ago
Quoted from dyopp21:

For an older game that you would like to make $.50 but the system itself doesn’t support anything other than “one coin, one credit,” does anyone know of a way to do this mechanically? Possibly with a coin mech that diverts every other coin? Does such a thing exist? Or just any suggestion on how to do this?

Check the manual. Here is Paragon for example.

Screenshot_20180708-181204_Drive (resized).jpg

#9 9 months ago

Bally offered a two coin and a three coin unit.

#10 9 months ago
Quoted from dyopp21:

For an older game that you would like to make $.50 but the system itself doesn’t support anything other than “one coin, one credit,” does anyone know of a way to do this mechanically? Possibly with a coin mech that diverts every other coin? Does such a thing exist? Or just any suggestion on how to do this?

What game?

#11 9 months ago

The first game I’d like to work this out on is an old Williams Swinger. Now, I ended up having to mod it because the coin door and the wiring was jacked. I wired the coin door switch directly to the credit up coil on the stepper unit. It works fine, but one coin/ one credit.

#12 9 months ago

Most people were assuming you had a solid state game. The thread has now been moved to the EM section.

#13 9 months ago
Quoted from dyopp21:

Williams Swinger

Pages 5 and 6 of the Williams Swinger manual address this.
https://www.ipdb.org/files/2485/Williams_1972_Swinger_Instruction_Manual_no_schematics.pdf

#14 9 months ago

Swinger should have coin mechs that can take two coins.

Untitled (resized).png

#15 9 months ago

That WMS hardware (Flip over lever) was usually only found on 3 slot doors where the leftmost coin slot was for nickels. 2 nickels = 1 dime. Saved on having that alternator stepper unit often missing from the upper left corner of the bottom relay board assembly (solder strip with wires that go no where).

If it exists, a Quarter may be too large to use it.

#16 9 months ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

That WMS hardware (Flip over lever) was usually only found on 3 slot doors where the leftmost coin slot was for nickels. 2 nickels = 1 dime. Saved on having that alternator stepper unit often missing from the upper left corner of the bottom relay board assembly (solder strip with wires that go no where).
If it exists, a Quarter may be too large to use it.

Most Swingers and Fun Fests were shipped with twin Quarter chutes for the USA and Canada.

#17 9 months ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

If it exists, a Quarter may be too large to use it.

A quarter will trip the coin wire but gets stuck on the other side of the flip lever.

#18 9 months ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

That WMS hardware (Flip over lever) was usually only found on 3 slot doors where the leftmost coin slot was for nickels. 2 nickels = 1 dime. Saved on having that alternator stepper unit often missing from the upper left corner of the bottom relay board assembly (solder strip with wires that go no where).
If it exists, a Quarter may be too large to use it.

my fun fest took quarters. i'd imagine swinger is the same.

pasted_image (resized).png
#19 9 months ago

Our local operator has the EMs rigged so that the first coin adds a credit and the second coin starts the game- start button is non-functional. I can ask what they did.

#20 9 months ago

This machine as a 2 coin option for the 5 cent chute. So why not change this around to suit your needs.

Help (resized).jpg
#21 9 months ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

This machine as a 2 coin option for the 5 cent chute. So why not change this around to suit your needs.

Games built around quarters rarely came equipped with the "alternator unit".

#22 9 months ago
Quoted from balzofsteel:

Games built around quarters rarely came equipped with the "alternator unit".

Until later, when the 1 coin 1 play / 2 coins 3 play pricing came to be. This unit can often be rewired for 2 coins 1 play.

#23 9 months ago

I considered doing the nickle trick, but the wires to the coin door were jacked and I couldn’t find an alternator unit.

#24 9 months ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Until later, when the 1 coin 1 play / 2 coins 3 play pricing came to be. This unit can often be rewired for 2 coins 1 play.

The two coins (quarters) three plays pricing came into being after the SS pins came into being around 1978.

#25 9 months ago
Quoted from MrBally:

The two coins (quarters) three plays pricing came into being after the SS pins came into being around 1978.

Grand Prix has it.

#26 9 months ago

On many C.C. Big Ball Bowlers, they had 25 cents, 10 cents, and 2 nickles per play, so it was easy to
just route the nickle wires to the quarter slot.
On the small ball bowlers, I take an old bowler score reel, and by using the run out switch, I groove
out 4 other notches on the cam, so along with the original run out notch, you'll have 5 total notches.
With every other score reel step up the switch would open/closed. The coin switch get's wired to the score
reel coil, and the same with the coin relay, with the exception of the coin relay being wired in the run out
switch so it only has a complete circuit when the switch is made which would be every other pulse
of the score reel. I've done it on many machines, and it holds up well. I believe Swinger's circuit is 25V,
right? Many older bowlers are 50V, so the score reel coil may have to be changed, although Chicago Coin
(and pre 1955 United bowlers) are 30V which 25V should pulse..

#27 9 months ago

With the optional Alternator unit for North America. Standard for Europe and South America.

#28 9 months ago
Quoted from Mopar:

On many C.C. Big Ball Bowlers, they had 25 cents, 10 cents, and 2 nickles per play, so it was easy to
just route the nickle wires to the quarter slot.
On the small ball bowlers, I take an old bowler score reel, and by using the run out switch, I groove
out 4 other notches on the cam, so along with the original run out notch, you'll have 5 total notches.
With every other score reel step up the switch would open/closed. The coin switch get's wired to the score
reel coil, and the same with the coin relay, with the exception of the coin relay being wired in the run out
switch so it only has a complete circuit when the switch is made which would be every other pulse
of the score reel. I've done it on many machines, and it holds up well. I believe Swinger's circuit is 25V,
right? Many older bowlers are 50V, so the score reel coil may have to be changed, although Chicago Coin
(and pre 1955 United bowlers) are 30V which 25V should pulse..

This is a very interesting idea. I'm pretty sure I'm visualizing it, but if you ever have time to take a quick snapshot of the score reel notching, would love to see that.

#29 9 months ago

The first thing to do is put the armature cam switch in the run-out position so that it's open.
Then manually energize the coil twice, and mark the spot where the run-out switch is now resting.
Repeat this three more times starting from the last spot that was marked, so around the cam
there will be 4 marks total. So with every other step-up, the run-out switch will be on a mark..
On the score reel, I take off the 9th position switch along with it's wires leaving only the
run-out switch along with it's wires (and the coil wires)..
The cam comes off and where the marks are, you carve out a small notch. The next time I
make some, I'm getting a dremel tool or something to that nature so I end up with nice clean
notches. I only made one notch (instead of all 4) in this cam just to give you an idea..
In the first pic (or after I click send, I'm thinking it'll be the first pic), the run-out switch is in the
original factory notch-out. In the second pic, the switch is in the notch-out that I carved out.
In the last pic, the run-out switch is positioned right in between the two notches so the switch
is closed. So starting with the switch being in the factory notch-out, with every other step-up,
the switch is open, and of coarse with every other, the switch would be closed also..
After re-wired, only when the switch is in the closed position is when the Coin Relay/Credit Relay
will energize which will take one coin switch pulse to get the run-out switch out of the notch, then
while the run-out switch is now closed, the next coin switch pulse will energize the Credit Relay
along with the Score Reel Coil which will once again place the run-out switch in a notch..
If you decide to use this method, I'm sure you'll be fine doing the re-wiring, but if you'd like to double
check, I can give you the procedure for the wiring.. (T)
Edit: After sending, as you'll see, the first pic shows the run-out switch in between the two notches.
It might not look it, but the run-out switch is open in the notch that I carved out. I maybe should have
made that notch slightly deeper. The Dremel tool with make that an easy job to do..
IMG_1295 (resized).JPGIMG_1296 (resized).JPGIMG_1297 (resized).JPG

#30 9 months ago

Speaking with a location that did this, on EMs, the old score reel method is the cheapest, most easy way. Each quarter pulses the reel one step. Every other step is wired to the start relay, or coin relay, depending on the game. Someone mentioned this in the thread already. Using Gottlieb AS relays might be similar, and smaller, but those relays are not as easy, and cheap to find. I have yet to install it for a customer. It has been enough work just keeping the games running to make money, and not add this to my to-do list, even though I would be paid to mod it.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 7.95
Apparel - Unisex
Pinball Wheezer
$ 125.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Sparky Pinball
$ 29.99
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 189.99
Lighting - Led
PinballBulbs
$ 39.95
Playfield - Protection
Little Shop Of Games
$ 69.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 78.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
From: $ 42.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 5,599.00
Pinball Machine
Classic Game Rooms
From: $ 40.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
$ 85.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 26.50
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 90.00
Lighting - Under Cabinet
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 69.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 76.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 15.75
Cabinet Parts
Tilted Pinball
$ 27.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 24.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
$ 24.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
The MOD Couple
$ 7,499.00
Pinball Machine
Classic Game Rooms
$ 44.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
PinBoss Mods

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside