(Topic ID: 193507)

How to insure pinball games


By rrosenhouse

2 years ago



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  • 56 posts
  • 29 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Strummy
  • Topic is favorited by 35 Pinsiders

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    There are 56 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 2 years ago

    We're looking into insuring our pinball collection. Our home owner's insurance company recommended a certain company, but when we called them, they were only interested in insuring games that are not played (i.e. Antiques). I have a small collection of modern games (1993 - 2016). Does anyone have any recommendations on a company that would insure them against loss from fire, etc.

    Rob

    #2 2 years ago

    Following. Have the same question. If the house burned down, the pins would eat up most of the insurance policy $$. Well, at least a LOT of it.

    #3 2 years ago

    I insure mine with Collect Insure http://www.collectinsure.com/
    Though their website seems to be down at the moment.

    16
    #4 2 years ago

    Check your policies. Most don't require separate riders or policies for pinball collections. Make sure you keep photos of your collection updated. And regularly updating your Pinside collection will provide persuasive documentation of what you had when tragedy struck, as well.

    #5 2 years ago

    As above. Check your policy, make sure you have enough coverage for ALL contents. Including furniture, clothes, electronics and the pins etc. A lot of pics for sure of everything too.

    #6 2 years ago

    As others have said - check your policy and check it again. Also ask your agent.

    Our house was broken into and in dealing with insurance I felt I was robbed twice. As I would list what was missing I kept getting - oh that's not covered, you need a rider for that.

    #7 2 years ago

    Mine are covered under contents only problem is water back up limit is only 10k and they are in basement. I might I increase or buy escalara.

    Coverage confirmed with underwriter.

    #8 2 years ago

    We did speak to our home insurance company. They said they could possibly insure the pins, but I would have to get them appraised. I don't even know where to begin with that.

    #9 2 years ago
    Quoted from WackyBrakke:

    I insure mine with Collect Insure http://www.collectinsure.com/
    Though their website seems to be down at the moment.

    If you don't mind me asking... what does your collection consist of?

    Rob

    #10 2 years ago
    Quoted from indybru:

    Mine are covered under contents only problem is water back up limit is only 10k and they are in basement. I might I increase or buy escalara.
    Coverage confirmed with underwriter.

    I ran into this same problem and ended up increasing the coverage to the max of $50,000 which was very costly. The problem with that is either my pins would have been covered or basement. Didn't like the sounds of making that choice so I went to travelers and now sump pump or septic backup is covered to the value of the home included in policy. Pins are market value, not stated. Any other event fall under personal property which is fairly substantial per the policy language.

    I did look into insuring the pins separately before and I think it was about $$150-200/year + or - for $45,000-$50,000 in coverage.

    #11 2 years ago

    I am an insurance agent and have a nice collection. I have mine insured on an inland marine policy that is attached to my homeowners. My company allows the price guide from pinside for the appraisal. Most homeowners policy will cover them for the perils you have under your homeowners, problem is if there is a loss how they come up with a value. Even if you have replacement cost policy there will be a problem because that states they will replace at like kind so if you have a mint or HUO pin they may only pay the value of an average machine. By having an inland marine policy they have excepted the stated value you have them insured for so if destroyed there is no problem for value. Plus basically inland marine is an all risk policy verses the special peril policy most have on their homeowners. My recommendation if you have very nice pins is to insure them on the inland marine policy. Hope this helps.

    #12 2 years ago

    Thought of something else. if you have any chance of water, weather it is water back up or flood. Get the inland marine. It will be way cheaper than buying extra backup coverage or flood insurance.

    #13 2 years ago

    Ditto on Inland Marine. My dad was an investment broker and had a partnership in an insurance agency that catered to high end clients and Inland Marine was used all the time for things like this.

    When I lived at home we had our collection insured under one as well as I have mine insured under one right now. Inland marine is also useful for certain types of jewelry, art, collections etc...

    My dad had clients that used Inland Marine for things like pianos, golf clubs, tools for guys with woodworking shops in their house, wine collections, one guy had a home beer making hobby with all the equipment insured, and on and on.

    #14 2 years ago
    Quoted from rrosenhouse:

    If you don't mind me asking... what does your collection consist of?
    Rob

    My collection on here is public. Nice thing with collect insure is they scheduled them at the prices I wanted, so I don't have to worry if I ever need to file a claim. I think in total I have them covered for $113,000. Regular home owners insurance would only cover them at their determined depreciated value, which would shock you at how low that is.

    #15 2 years ago

    Following this too. My wife just asked about this.

    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from john32:

    By having an inland marine policy they have excepted

    I hope you meant "accepted", kind of changes the meaning a bit.

    #17 2 years ago

    Here in Chicago area my sump system was tested again this week . I have battery back up as well.

    I'm going to look into getting natural gas backup generator. Also inland marine polices have exclusions also. Isn't flood one of them?
    I have a ranch so I bought a NFIP flood policy. Doesn't cover lower than ground level except mechanicals. So no coverage for pins and finished basements that's why water back up endorsement is crucial. Or bomb proof the basement with generator .

    #18 2 years ago

    sorry about the accepted.. was on my cell typing this and it spelled checked..lol but back to water/sewer back up that water is not considered flood from my company as long as it comes back through the sewer system.. most companies don't include this coverage in the base policy. its an endorsement to the homeowners. I have found it is way cheaper to just buy inland marine. I have a big collection that I now have insured for $165,000 and it cost me about $565 a year.

    #19 2 years ago
    Quoted from john32:

    I have a big collection that I now have insured for $165,000 and it cost me about $565 a year.

    That is a very compelling argument (insurance value and cost). One more question, have you or anyone you know have any experience on how things went when making a claim? How hard to prove cost, did you get to keep the damaged/lost items, etc.? (well, obvioiusly you didn't get the keep the "lost" items, they were lost!). I meant "lost" as in "total loss".

    Joe
    joemagiera@ameritech.net

    #20 2 years ago
    Quoted from Newport-Bill:

    As others have said - check your policy and check it again. Also ask your agent.
    Our house was broken into and in dealing with insurance I felt I was robbed twice. As I would list what was missing I kept getting - oh that's not covered, you need a rider for that.

    Another classic example of how insurance COmpaNies are your friend, until something goes wrong.....

    #21 2 years ago

    Those with NFIP insurance had better be careful. While it used to be good it's worthless now except in unusual situations. My
    "Ground level" starts at the bottom of my front door in picture - about 12 feet above the actual flood. They only covered a water heater and an air handler fan. After deductable that was about $300.

    20161009_073048 (resized).jpg

    #22 2 years ago

    An insurance company is only as good as how they handle their claims. To find a good insurance company you have to talk to people that have filed and processed a claim with that company or you have had to file a claim with that company. You have to research the rules of your policy with your agent in regards to your situation and any and all scenerios that could cause total loss to your covered items. I upped my content coverage through my home owners policy to cover my collection. The value of that collection is determined by current market value for their current condition. I keep updated photos for proof of that condition. That was all I needed to do, according to my agent, to get the correct value for each machine in case of a total loss.

    #23 2 years ago

    On the inland marine coverage each machine is listed with an agreed value. If there is a total loss that is what is paid. it is my responsibility as the insured to change these values if they go up in value or I recondition one to make it worth more. like I said above once a company accepts the value on the policy that's what is paid if there is a loss. that's the advantage of inland marine instead of having on your contents.. there you will negotiate value with the adjustor that is assigned to you at claim time. If it is a major disaster such as a tornado like where I live or a flood where multiple people have claims you may be assigned an independent adjustor that doesn't work for the company on a regular bases. I still recommend inland marine coverage, plus with my company its cheaper than raising my contents coverage. and inland marine will cover the gaps in perils that your special form on the homeowners does not

    #24 2 years ago

    an example of inland marine that a lot of people can understand is the women wedding ring. the main diamond falls out of the set in the ring. homeowners no coverage because just loosing something is not covered but under inland marine it is covered up to the value that the ring is listed for on the policy. that's why I right inland marine on a lot of different types of collection, guns, stamps, coins, sports cards, glass ware

    #25 2 years ago

    My games are individually insured with declared value on my policy as riders. I am with Cincinnati Insurance and all I had to do was provide them a list of titles and what I wanted to insure them each for. No appraisal needed and I email them periodically with changes as I sell/trade games or the market values change substantially. The per game premium is reasonable to not have to worry about an adjuster attempting to assign value to something they know nothing about in the event of a disaster.

    #26 2 years ago

    I'm still thinking about this whole insurance thing too. I have replacement cost on my homeowners policy, and the contents coverage would be enough to cover my pins plus all else in the home. What do I have to do to establish pin value in case a claim is needed under the contents coverage? Several of my pins are HUO, and some are full restorations. Company is Safeco if that matters, and I would be interested in hearing if others have had any claim experience with Safeco for pins under replacement cost contents coverage (not separately scheduled items). Or even Safeco if you did have the pins as separately scheduled items.

    #27 2 years ago

    I used to be with Safeco when I rented. Back in 2007 my apartment building burned to the ground. I lost everything including a Grand Prix and a Ms. Pacman. I maxed out my policy and they just paid no questions asked, including loss of use and put me up in a hotel for 3 months until I bought my last house. Great company but I can't speak to directly insuring games as I didn't have any insured that way at the time.

    #28 2 years ago
    Quoted from RoyF:

    I'm still thinking about this whole insurance thing too. I have replacement cost on my homeowners policy, and the contents coverage would be enough to cover my pins plus all else in the home. What do I have to do to establish pin value in case a claim is needed under the contents coverage? Several of my pins are HUO, and some are full restorations. Company is Safeco if that matters, and I would be interested in hearing if others have had any claim experience with Safeco for pins under replacement cost contents coverage (not separately scheduled items). Or even Safeco if you did have the pins as separately scheduled items.

    Depending on Insurer, Policy, and maybe state, you might want to get in writing your "Collection" covered under
    household goods.
    Ive seen some claims denied, when an insurance company requires separate scheduling of collectibles,
    and deemed assets a "collection" as opposed to Household, and denied claim.

    Verbal approval from an Agent is not good enough. Writing.

    #29 2 years ago
    Quoted from WackyBrakke:

    I insure mine with Collect Insure http://www.collectinsure.com/
    Though their website seems to be down at the moment.

    I'm working towards getting a quote from these guys. I'll let you know how it goes.

    #30 2 years ago
    Quoted from dri:

    I'm working towards getting a quote from these guys. I'll let you know how it goes.

    Yes- please keep us posted.

    #31 2 years ago
    Quoted from WackyBrakke:

    My collection on here is public. Nice thing with collect insure is they scheduled them at the prices I wanted, so I don't have to worry if I ever need to file a claim. I think in total I have them covered for $113,000. Regular home owners insurance would only cover them at their determined depreciated value, which would shock you at how low that is.

    The last time this thread went around it was determined that the collector insurance being recommended was actually a secondary policy, meaning that they would only pay out after a primary policy did, and only for the difference (if there was any). So while it may be giving you peace of mind in the event of an actual loss you may be paying for very little actual insurance. You might want to read the details to make sure but my research found I was better off to increase the limits on my regular homeowner's policy.

    #32 2 years ago

    I have had good luck with Smith and Wesson.

    #33 2 years ago
    Quoted from viper001:

    The last time this thread went around it was determined that the collector insurance being recommended was actually a secondary policy, meaning that they would only pay out after a primary policy did, and only for the difference (if there was any). So while it may be giving you peace of mind in the event of an actual loss you may be paying for very little actual insurance. You might want to read the details to make sure but my research found I was better off to increase the limits on my regular homeowner's policy.

    You are right in that they will only cover above and beyond what any other applicable insurance has already covered them for. But if you think your general home owners policy will cover your $7200 TZ for $7200 you are fooling yourself. If you have "regular" insurance they will cover it for the depreciated value of a 30 year old machine, you'd be lucky to get $1000. If you have "replacement value" insurance you might do a little better, but then you are forced to buy the same games and try to find the same quality as you had before. If you are like me you've probably put some money into them replacing boards, adding mods, replacing bulbs with LED's and maybe even replacing play fields and cabinet side art. No, it's much better to have something in place where the value is agreed to ahead of time, a rider or supplementary insurance. Because pinball machines are considered "collectibles" (i.e. they go up in value over time), you need to make sure you have them covered for what they are worth, not for what some accountant will write them down for. It's worth every penny to me, it's not a lot and will be worth it if something awful were to ever happen.

    #34 2 years ago
    Quoted from WackyBrakke:

    You are right in that they will only cover above and beyond what any other applicable insurance has already covered them for. But if you think your general home owners policy will cover your $7200 TZ for $7200 you are fooling yourself. If you have "regular" insurance they will cover it for the depreciated value of a 30 year old machine, you'd be lucky to get $1000. If you have "replacement value" insurance you might do a little better, but then you are forced to buy the same games and try to find the same quality as you had before. If you are like me you've probably put some money into them replacing boards, adding mods, replacing bulbs with LED's and maybe even replacing play fields and cabinet side art. No, it's much better to have something in place where the value is agreed to ahead of time, a rider or supplementary insurance. It's worth every penny to me, it's not a lot and will be worth it if something awful were to ever happen.

    I didn't mean to upset you, I was just pointing out that you aren't really getting 113k of insurance coverage. I have replacement coverage so using your example they would have to buy me another TZ which can't happen for $1000. Using that example let's say your regular policy cheated you and said your TZ could be replaced for $6000. Your secondary policy would indeed make you whole and give you the $1200 difference. My only point is after that plays out on all your games the $500 or so premium doesn't really pay for that much coverage.

    #35 2 years ago
    Quoted from viper001:

    I didn't mean to upset you, I was just pointing out that you aren't really getting 113k of insurance coverage. I have replacement coverage so using your example they would have to buy me another TZ which can't happen for $1000. Using that example let's say your regular policy cheated you and said your TZ could be replaced for $6000. Your secondary policy would indeed make you whole and give you the $1200 difference. My only point is after that plays out on all your games the $500 or so premium doesn't really pay for that much coverage.

    You didn't upset me. I just don't think many people understand how insurance works and don't ask the right questions. Even replacement value isn't going to get you the same as you had before. The only guarantee is to have them scheduled at pre-agreed to values. Either through home owners or supplementary insurance. Either way you will be paying additional above and beyond your standard home owners rate.

    #36 2 years ago

    As an agent and as I have said before, get inland marine insurance. if not at least get a quote from your agent for it and then make the decision. Replacement cost coverage is good but I will give you an example... you buy a new 50" high def tv for 3000, 6 months later lighting hits the power lines and blows out your tv. a 50" now can be bought for 2500 so that's what you get paid. that's why I don't like replacement cost on pins. like wackybrakke said you add leds, new side art, maybe a new board. opps but that doesn't add value in the eyes of the insurance company so now you are short of money for the machine you just lost. hope this helps

    #37 2 years ago

    hey just to let you all know. my company is not a major player in the inland marine market but we still are only $4.20 per thousand of coverage so just $21 to cover that $5000 machine and that is primary coverage so I don't have to worry about coverage off my contents

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from rrosenhouse:

    Yes- please keep us posted.

    FWIW, I signed up with collectinsure.com. A $300 annual premium on my collection based on pinside prices. Some machines are worth more and some might be worth less but at least >$50k won't burn for nothing.

    #39 2 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I have had good luck with Smith and Wesson.

    OK so when the big storm trashes your house and your collection your going to just start shootin everything?

    #40 2 years ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    OK so when the big storm trashes your house and your collection your going to just start shootin everything?

    When water starts coming in the basement window, shoot that mother fncker!

    #41 2 years ago

    We aint got no basements out here. But when the big quake hits, that S+W might come in pretty handy.

    #42 2 years ago

    And remember...

    #43 2 years ago

    My wife is an agent. Best thing I can tell you is to talk to your agent, ask specific questions. How does this coverage work, if this happens, how much do I get. I believe it can vary by state as well. You may need to add a rider or get them scheduled and possibly get appraisals, but they may take the price guide as a value, but you have to ask beforehand. You may have to agree to take that value, even if your is worth more. This is what your agent is there for.

    #44 2 years ago

    I own an insurance agency... This thread gets resurrected once a year...

    Let me say this once... YOUR HOMEOWNERS INSURANCE WILL NOT ADEQUATELY INSURE YOUR COLLECTION. period, end of story. Just like you have to schedule / itemize and insure separately jewelry, guns, silverware, coins, etc.. etc... your homeowner policy does will insure your original MMR, but not for the $ 15,000 you think it's worth - like everything else, they will depreciate it, and will be happy to pay you $ 500 in the event of a claim for it.

    DO NOT LISTEN TO YOUR AGENT. I've had too many people in this hobby ask their agent he'll say 'yes, anything in your house is insured' and he's right but he and your insurance company have NO CLUE of the value of the machines. Your agent isn't lying, but there is always so much lost when that question is asked and people hear what they want to hear 'It's covered' and don't dig deeper. People argue with me 'well my agent said....' Well ask him to put in writing that he will pay out of his pocket $ 25,000 / $ 50,000 / $ 100,000 for your arcade collection and pay you $ 10,000 for your Batman LE... Then when he won't put it in writing, come back and read this post on what to do...

    YOU NEED TO GET A SPECIAL 'COLLECTORS INSURANCE POLICY'... Personally for both my sports memorabilia collection and my coin op / arcade stuff I use www.collectinsure.com.... I am not associated with them in anyway, I do not write my own policy, I just found them years ago as the type of policy you need when you have a significant collectible collection of anything.

    Do not debate here, do not tell people what your agent said, as all you are doing is mis-informing others with your mis-information. Sorry to be so blunt but I argue this point in a thread once a year for everyone. This is what I have done for a living for nearly 30 years in addition to PinballSTAR - so I'm only trying to steer you right.

    Now back to our regularly scheduled Pinside...

    #45 2 years ago

    I'll add that if your company offers an 'inland marine' policy as was stated before that possibly will work as they are accepting the value you give and you are paying a premium for that - neither which exists when you 'think' your homeowners is covering it... I will however caution, when a claim occurs you'll be dealing with an adjuster who will interpret that policy to the letter of the law - your agent, his underwriter he dealt with will NOT be involved in that process. So, you'll be starting off having to explain to someone very skeptical how your 20 year old Medieval Madness restored by HEP is worth $ 15,000 when he'll find you can buy a remake for $ 8,000 - which your policy may give them the right to do - replace what was lost. Your 'collectability' value argument will fall on deaf ears.

    When you deal with www.collectinsure.com this is all they do, they know what they are insuring. There are riders on the policy you will not get on a homeowners or even an inland marine... and since it was mentioned - FLOOD peril / cause of loss is one of them - they cover flood. They will cover multiple locations, they can cover transit if you contact them, they can cover shows, etc... They know what people with collectible stuff do - whether it is arcade, sports, watches, art, etc...

    Again, trying to cut through the chase here - call them, look at website, get a quote and buck up and pay the premium or you can stick your head in the sand and think you are insured.

    Your homeowners agent who told you it's 'in there' will later in the event of a claim stammer and say 'oh I never said that, you didn't tell me what these things were worth, your policy contact language always supersedes everything, etc....' or any other number of things he will say to distance himself from the claim situation.

    www.collectinsure.com - it exists for a reason - because there is not adequate coverage on a homeowners policy. this company doesn't exist because all this stuff is covered for free on your homeowners...

    Sorry for rant, I know how much we all have in our games - blood sweat tears AND money - I would hate for someone to lose all they worked for and love.

    #46 2 years ago

    Separate high value rider policy on home insurance. This will provide actual physical value security and must be updated yearly.

    Same process if you only rent. Normally covers everything BUT flooding. Talk with your agent.

    Expect to do required additional legwork on appraisals, photos, serial numbers, and proof of ownership. You may require references. Do not use "antique shops" as they are worthless. Baseline game values can be acquire from the Mr Pinball Price Guide 2017 with adjustments made for game condition, unless the games were made before 1945. Make updates as needed. If "third party" values are required seek out a reputable used game dealer. New game distributors are not always optimal.

    I have had games separately insured since 1990 as a requirement of a large volume collection.

    #47 2 years ago
    Quoted from rrosenhouse:

    We did speak to our home insurance company. They said they could possibly insure the pins, but I would have to get them appraised. I don't even know where to begin with that.

    Have a local distributor do it or site listings online for values.

    #48 2 years ago

    Pins are covered on your HO policy. I am pretty impressed with how often this topic comes up, gets debated, and solved the same way every year at least. Sometimes more than once a year.

    I am insurance agent and do not have my pins scheduled. I have checked every other year or so and no changes have been made to the HO policy form that would affect this. You can buy additional insurance, sure, if it makes you feel better. But if you think the HO insurance company might fight you over value of your pins, wait till they undervalue your house and personal stuff by $100,000. You will have FAR better luck negotiating a settlement with your personal agent involved using your local company. We don't sell collector's insurance or prepaid legal or anything like that i.i. cell phone insurance, car maintenance insurance, the list goes on.

    Part of the problem is 99% of the public does not understand how a claims settlement works. It's a negotiation. You should have an attorney. The company is NOT your friend in a claim, even if they smile and act nicey nice. Most people will never understand this and TBH, not sure it's worth thinking about. If you die and never have a claim how much was the time you spent worrying about this insurance crap worth?

    You should consult with your agent to get answers. If your agent can't answer have them kick it up for questions. I would not recommend changing your agency over this, especially if you have a long term agent. Look, if a client comes in and seems worried I am NOT talking them out of giving me their money if that makes them feel better. I have been licensed for 30 years. I am licensed and have physical offices in OK, TX, MO, LA, AR, and TN.

    PS-Surprise again! NOT. Ask two agents and get two different answers. Consult YOUR agent and if you don't have one get one. Insurance is the most purchased least understood product in the world, don't waste your time, hire a professional, that's what I do for my personal stuff

    #49 2 years ago

    If an owner wants to ensure protection of a game's full market value (and must be periodically updated), do not "lump" it under your home owner's or renter policy. This is a bad choice.

    It is no different than any other high end collectible, especially when it comes to a high volume collection of high quality exceeding more than $250K or more. Separate insurance is a necessity. A person is free is disagree, but I have been on the supporting end of appraisals to insurance companies regarding these situations. I don't know too many insurance agents that are qualified to provide experience on pinball appraising in order to end of supporting a correct reimbursement. It is that old "subjective" aspect.

    If a person owns a handful of games, it really is not significant, no rider required, use existing homeowners or renter's policies.
    Still take good photos and record those serial numbers!

    #50 2 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I have had good luck with Smith and Wesson.

    What's their policy

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