Non-collectors with a single machine can be very hard to deal with. They tend to look at prices on eBay, and think they can actually get that for their machine. It's even worse when you're the first person they have dealt with. Sometimes they need several people to tell them that they are asking too much until they believe it.

This is the worst, and it goes for more than just pins. Someone wants to sell something on craigs list so they check prices on ebay and see some yahoo who wants $2000 for some sub par table. I would try to look it over, check the test menu, make it apparent you know pinball, smile and be polite while trying to talk them down. The downside is you might ce across as condisending.

I always try to be honest with sellers that have no clue and educate without preaching. Trying to force a sale usually ends up badly because the seller can see that you want it. I usually just lay my offer on the table "so to speak", then give them my phone number and ask that they call me (since I was the first contact) if they change their mind after shopping the game around for sale. I tell them that the price I offered should be a starting point for them and if they can get more than that, good for them. I then walk away with no regrets because I tried, if the game ends up with someone else, good for them.

Sometimes it pays off being honest and knowing when to walk away. Sometimes they rethink the situation right away and take my offer. Sometimes they call me back later since I was the first guy to offer a reasonable amount of money (before the tire kickers and pinflippers start contacting him).

I've found that through the years, the problem with a lot of buyers is that they want the game real bad when they find one and they get too pushy with the seller. I'd rather be like the old bull walking down the hill to the cows than the young bull rushing down the hill to get just one. I get more deals that way.

If really interested to sell I offer cash at pickup, explain respectfully here's how I'm basing my offer price, and if he/she is not interested to sell at that price to please keep your contact info handy if they change their mind or if you can touch base in a few weeks.

Keep it always upbeat and friendly never combative. I find email helps lay out the basis for your offer - and just be prepared to walk away. They either will or will not sell at the price you are looking to pay. No need to get frustrated - it simply is what it is. Getting into a debate over worth will never lead to a happy sale - unless cash is urgently needed.

I recently wasted a trip to check out a Pinbot listed for $1200. Ad reads as follows: "This William's 1986 Classic Pin Bot Pinball Machine has had limited use, was completely restored in 2001, and is in excellent condition."

First off, by "completely restored" he tells me that meant "they" got the machine up and running for him. So basically like a completely restored '68 Mustang that really only had the spark plugs changed out and seat covers put on. Okay. I still figure maybe "HUO" for the last 11 years might be worth checking out. After all, it is in "excellent condition". This description from a seemingly successful older profesional type in a penthouse apartment. Uh, no.

First thing I noticed was the large crack in the topper that wasn't originally in the pictures. "The movers must have done that." Next up was the aftermarket eyeholes that had literally been burned into the translite. Mylar coming up so bad I could have grabbed it with my hands and yanked it off. Oh, did I mention it was MISSING the mini-playfield! He had no idea of course. Although, he was intently concerned with the one bulb that was out in the color matrix. I guess I could've haggled down $.10 for the bulb.

He displayed the usual fascination with how I was able to open the "vault" with the secret key located in the coin door. Hey, no leaking batteries. Score one. I had my Mr. Pinball, and the Boston ebay listings but those weren't even close. I tried to explain everything nicely and he nodded and smiled. Yet, still the ad sits, posted. "Excellent condition" In the end, I told him he had a $300 machine as it sat, marginally hoping for a counter offer but honestly I didn't want that much of a project anyway.

I can only assume he will enjoy it for years to come. Hey, at least his penthouse neighbors can owe me a debt of gratitude. I showed him how to turn the volume down. The hunt continues.....

2012-06-02_14.32.43.jpg 2012-06-02_14.33.13.jpg

I think blown fuse articulated it best.

I had a similar situation last summer over a Target Alpha. Game was decent but really was in dire need of a shop job, back glass and lots of TLC. The owner asked me to make her an offer which I did of $650. She was thinking $1500. She got offended at my offer and I showed her price guides and other eBay sales info and she wouldn't budge. So I wished her well, good luck and told her I hope she got her price.

Don't know if this helps, but I am really happy that I walked with no further haggling.

Or "should be an easy fix". So fix it then!

Don't bother unless you want a pissing contest

Collector... non-collector... doesn't make a difference to me. Try to build rapport and make a deal if you're willing to pay what they're willing to accept. Otherwise, you walk away amicably.

As has been reiterated already, and I'll continue to do so, make your offer based on your knowledge and walk away. I've done that several times only to have sellers contact me later, once within 20 minutes, to take the deal. Just be honest, helpful (show them how to open things, run diagnostics, etc), and wish them luck on their sale.

I feel your pain, My son's friends family has a FH (only pin) that is played about twice a year. I asked them if they wanted to sell it. His first price was 10K. I spit out my drink. He then said he wouldn't let it go for less than 5K. I told him to enjoy his game. Sometimes you have to walk away. I'm hoping they do some research, and figure out the price, and call me back. I would like a FH, but not for 5K.

What ninjabones says.. don't try to educate, when they have a figure in their head they'll just think you want to get it for a bargain.
Cash talks. Show money, what you want to pay for it, in this condition, you'll take it now and you'll never come back to him to complain something wasn't wrong.
If he has doubts and thinks it's worth a lot more, tell him to put it on ebay starting at $1, but then he has the risk it'll go lower, he has paypal troubles, extra fees, handle transport/packaging, ..
Leave your phone number, write down the amount you want to pay, thank him for his time and say he'll have to phone you if he changes his mind and does want to sell.

I tell them I am interested but send them links to the price guides and say I won't pay more than this unless it is in extremely good shape. I then ask them pointed questions on the phone if they call back. If I see they lied when I go over there then all bets are off.

I have never had any success with getting a seller to adjust there price. 3 years ago, I went to buy an F14, and when I got there, the game had some major issues. One of the 4 displays was out, only flickering the littlest bit. The game kept blowing a fuse on start up, so I could not even test play it. In an effort to fix the game himself, he installed diodes on all the coils (I don't know how this was going to fix anything). Lastly, he removed the playfield Mylar, and did a terrible job. You hear about Mylar removal horror stories, and this guy had one. In my opinion, he had completely ruined the playfield. This particular seller would not give me a price over the phone. In person he insisted that I make an offer on the pin. So, I offered $500. He immediately told me it was worth at least $1500. I showed him the Mr. Pinball Price Guide, explained what parts it would need and that once working, it would only be a $750 game (at best). In short, he politely threw me out.

Some people you just can't reach. Let someone else overpay for junk.

As others have said, non-enthusiasts are a real frustration to deal with. HOWEVER they are nowhere near as bad as OPERATORS or EX-OPERATORS. Those are the worst. Many ops think their games are made of solid gold and they're doing you a favor giving you the opportunity to pay 3x market value.

With regular owners, I usually respectfully explain to them the nature of pinball pricing, how there's a difference between "pawn stars price", "ebay [asking] price" and reality. I'll usually reference Bostonpinball's sale list and say something like "x games of that type have sold in the last six months for an average price of $y" And then wish them good luck with their sale.

I've found if you're respectful to them and don't necessarily talk down to them, half the time they're willing to work a deal.

I have had good luck with a few older games. I had a quasi family member with an a list title in terrible shape. Being family, I was unwilling to haggle him and leave any hard feelings. In the end, he sold it to a close friend of mine and both were happy.

Looking for some buying advice:

Found a great condition Space Shuttle on CL for $500. Of course it lasted about 69 seconds before it was snatched. Seller did not respond to my e-mails (found it after it was posted for an hour...too late).

Same game was reposted in a different city 2 days later for $1600. Ad claims machine was 'shopped out' and the usual stuff.

Here's my problem: I still want the machine! It's in great shape, but I'm not sure of the type of person I'll be dealing with. I'm considering an offer, but essentially I'll be rewarding a pinflipper who performed little to no work on the machine.

How do I deal with this seller? Do I let him know about the original ad?

You can use it as a compairable for price but do not assume that is actually the pin unless the tell you it is.

Its his game now, he can sell it for whatever he wants. What does letting him know you know accomplish?

Fair point: to be clear, I am not 100% certain it is the same machine. HOWEVER, same description (HUO for 20 years, sold because the kids are too old, played very little) and same photos showing the same playfield details and flaws.

All signs point to yes, but I can't say with 100% validity.

Yes, thank you, I understand its his game. He can sell it for 6.2 million bajillion dollars. I am looking for advice from anyone who has been in a similar situation. If the consensus is 'tough s#%t, buy it or keep looking,' then that's okay.

Haha, pinball purchasing is a lot harder now. Just 2 years ago I use to walk away from deals only to call back later. That tactic use to work for me, lately I offer to overpay on the phone or email in order to get my foot in the door and then twiddle them down in person.

Could not agree more. +1

Good way to get shown the door right after you look at the machine.

I've only done this when the machine is not as advertised (which is almost always)

-You can't, with time (in hobby) comes wisdom and better perspective
no one likes to be told they are wrong and trying to say otherwise is just asking for drama

I have an interesting story before I was educated I have been out of the pinball scene for years and years and I contacted a dealer to say I was interested in maybe selling my pins. At the time I was completely aware of what they were worth. The guy came over and said the pins were ok but pointing out a lot of areas where they were not perfect yea I know they were on rout but they are good condition. Then he says he could buy the lot for $10k this was for four A list pins.

Luckily I was able to find out they probably are worth more like $16k or $17k

My point is that some non collectors may think they are being run over and sometimes they may be correct

I say move on.

These people that have inflated prices or quickly flip games should have to sit on them longer. The pinball community is small enough that if we are patient, we can keep the prices reasonable and keep our hobby from being manipulated by opportunists who don't care about pinball and are just trying to make a quick buck.

Are you talking about a Phantom of the Opera?

About three years ago a LOTR showed up on craigslist asking for 4500$, it was in a small arcade that only was used when the dance hall was rented out and the game was in great shape. I was in college at the time and made a pretty low offer and was turned away but saved the guys number in my phone just in case. 3 months later my phone woke me up from a nap and the contact calling was LOTR, I was a little disoriented but happily suprised when he said I could come get the game for my asking price.

Never hurts to leave your information!

Thats a good point you bring up blackKnight_2000
drop off your phone number even if at the time a deal is not made can only help in the future - good move

I 100% agree. I'd say at least 4-5 machines that I got for really good deals were scenarios where I didn't even make an offer to the buyer. Instead I said something like, 'Well, it's possible you could find someone who has an attachment to that particular machine and will pay what you're asking. As for me, I know how much work goes into restoring it, and it's worth about $x to me, which I understand is way below what you're asking. Good luck with the sale!"

You'd be surprised how many times they'll come back with, "I'll tell you what.. if you give me $x today, it's a deal."

I read something about buying a used car years ago, that I think might be helpful.

Of course, this is difficult if you have driven 3 hours to see the machine, and really don't want to have to come back...you're in sort of a bind and the seller probably knows this.

First agree that that price is realistic for a "near mint example" (or some other words to this effect).

Then take a while to review the item, taking your time to look at everything, making notes.

Then comes the more difficult part, explaining that this item is not a "near mint example" and that some work will need to be done to bring it to that condition.

To non-pin people this is difficult to do, since they probably bought it form a local retailer, who told them it was in really nice condition and charged them +50% or so, then added tax and a delivery fee. Now (due to inflation) they guy thinks it's worth that and perhaps more...eBay doesn't help.

But show him prices of parts...flipper repair kits, ramps, cabinet decals, etc and then add something nominal like $20/hr for your time for cleaning and repair.

Subtract that from the asking price...and see if he want's to sell. Also, if you check out Boston Pinball sell prices on eBay ahead of time and it's in your favor, show him a copy and tell him to go look at it on his computer if he wants. Boston Pinball is good because it has ranges and averages. You can say...for a "near mint example" it's this much: yyy; and for a worn one, like yours...it goes for this: $xxx.

Then it's a negotiation from that point. Try not to make it adversarial, ever.

I got someone to go from $2k for a Hook to $900, over the phone. When I finally got it (someone delivered it from SoCal), I thought $500 was probably too much, but by then it was mine.

Good luck.

Robert

+1 on leaving your contact info when all else fails. A friend of mine, who I would consider a master negotiator, has used this method successfully more times than I can count. He would never act eager or haggle past one or two sentences. He would go check out some CL game and make a cash offer based on condition. He would offer $x on the spot or $x minus $25 if he had to come back. Of course, the success of this method is based on a lot of factors including the desirability and exposure of the title, and your personal charisma.

Make them an offer they can't refuse.

Bring Luca Brasi with and assure them that their pin or their brains will be in your vehicle.

LTG

I don't even bother making contact if the price is so outlandish. I'm into EM games and sometimes see ads asking 1 to 2K for a machine that's worth maybe 400. In addition to the price,if the seller says things like "RARE!!" and "L@@K" and "WON'T LAST", I'm thinking they're less likely to budge.

As mentioned earlier, I think what people see on ebay has a lot to do with it. I also wonder if shows like "Storage Wars" and "American Pickers" are giving innacurate expectations. I personally think those shows are staged and phoney anyway.

PERFECT example of this.. on Storage Wars they found a "rare" Super Nintendo Game System. He said it was worth AT LEAST $200.. You can EASILY find these used for MUCH LESS both in the stores and on ebay.. I agree these shows are mostly staged because it's good for ratings.

I love the "They are currently selling for $xxxx on Ebay" line.

I agree 100% but I have to admit Pawn Stars is my guilty pleasure.

Haggling, a colloquial term for negotiating is a respected tradition than many individuals just do not engage in.

I had a seller contact me 18 months after I told them what their game was worth and what I would pay. I ended up with a Trident and Grand Lizard for $600 package deal. Both worked but needed shopped.

I picked up my Roadshow from a person like the one you listed except he over paid and did not know it. The game was in nice shape but had a re-set issue ( no biggie). When he tossed a price out I politely declined but did mention that his price was out of the range of what working games sell for.
I emailed him the link to Boston Pinball and told him the rage of prices and made and offer for the game. About a week later he called me and said if I wanted it its mine.

He said he had paid a LOT more than that ( retail ) and everytime a service guy came out cost him $150 so he was relieved I was taking it "as is".

Some people and OP's will not budge on a price and you just have to make your offer and walk away. I try to be nice if they are nice but if they are a dick head I can play that part easy as well.