(Topic ID: 299529)

How to get into Bally back box without key?

By DropTarget

2 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 25 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by phishrace
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 2 years ago

Hi,

Can anyone recommend how to get into a Bally SS backbot with out a key? It looks as if I drill the lock, it will cause more problems. I've been through that with a Gottlieb System 1, and would prefer not to go through a similar experience again!

TY

#2 2 years ago

Picking it is fairly easy. Will take several tries your first few times but great videos are available: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=pick+pinball+lock

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from DropTarget:

Hi,
Can anyone recommend how to get into a Bally SS backbot with out a key? It looks as if I drill the lock, it will cause more problems. I've been through that with a Gottlieb System 1, and would prefer not to go through a similar experience again!
TY

Does it have a number?

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

Does it have a number?

Not sure, the game is owned by someone else, it's on location. I'll try to find out.

#5 2 years ago

There is no, nor was there ever, a master list of games vs key number. When I worked for Bally we would get calls from time to time somebody asking us to send them a replacement key for game serial number xxxx. Like we would even if there was. The only master key I was aware of was the 1333 key for the back of all Midway video games.

I used to break into backboxes by carefully hammering a slotted screwdriver into the lock and turning with a wrench just enough to get the backglass up and out. However before you start check the cabinet. A lot of backboxes are broken into when the key is hanging safely on the hook inside the front door.

#6 2 years ago

I was able to easily pick the lock using a set off of Amazon. Ran into this issue several times.

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

I was able to easily pick the lock using a set off of Amazon. Ran into this issue several times.

The double bit ones are extremely difficult, I dont even bother any longer and just drill. If they are the single sided key it's fairly easy.

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

The double bit ones are extremely difficult, I dont even bother any longer and just drill. If they are the single sided key it's fairly easy.

I try to pick em first.. I've lost to many Drill Bits over time to trying to drill out the locks.

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

There is no, nor was there ever, a master list of games vs key number.

I think he meant the number on the lock (which is sometimes visible)--not the game's serial number.

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

There is no, nor was there ever, a master list of games vs key number. When I worked for Bally we would get calls from time to time somebody asking us to send them a replacement key for game serial number xxxx. Like we would even if there was. The only master key I was aware of was the 1333 key for the back of all Midway video games.
I used to break into backboxes by carefully hammering a slotted screwdriver into the lock and turning with a wrench just enough to get the backglass up and out. However before you start check the cabinet. A lot of backboxes are broken into when the key is hanging safely on the hook inside the front door.

I know a lot of Midway video games were keyed 1350, never heard of 1333. And a lot of Stern videos were L-355

With thanks to Ken Layton, I found this...

Galaxian: Fort Lock #1350 (double bit)
Pacman: Fort Lock #1350 (double bit)
Gorf: Illinois Lock # MW350 (double bit)
Ms. Pacman: Fort Lock # 1355 (double Bit)

Virtually all Stern cabinets used Fort Lock #L-355 (single bit).

English Mark Darts: National Lock # C-415 (single bit)

Neo-Geo: National Lock # C-413 (single bit)

Nintendo cabinets: Key # K-6510 (round Ace style)

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

There is no, nor was there ever, a master list of games vs key number. When I worked for Bally we would get calls from time to time somebody asking us to send them a replacement key for game serial number xxxx. Like we would even if there was. The only master key I was aware of was the 1333 key for the back of all Midway video games.
I used to break into backboxes by carefully hammering a slotted screwdriver into the lock and turning with a wrench just enough to get the backglass up and out. However before you start check the cabinet. A lot of backboxes are broken into when the key is hanging safely on the hook inside the front door.

Thanks, I didn't think that I could get a replacement key. Seeburg yes, Bally no. There is a hook for a key inside the cabinet, but no key.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

The double bit ones are extremely difficult, I dont even bother any longer and just drill. If they are the single sided key it's fairly easy.

I don't think drilling is an option on this type of locking mech, as I suspect that when the lock is drilled though, the bar that's attached to it, which rotates to remove the BG, will disengage. If that's the case I also suspect I'd be up shit's creek.

Kinda like a System 1 machine, not quite as complicated but probably drilling will make it worse.

Is that correct Forceflow?

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from DropTarget:

I don't think drilling is an option on this type of locking mech, as I suspect that when the lock is drilled though, the bar that's attached to it, which rotates to remove the BG, will disengage. If that's the case I also suspect I'd be up shit's creek.
Kinda like a System 1 machine, not quite as complicated but probably drilling will make it worse.
Is that correct Forceflow?

I have used the technique mentioned above by BigAl56 - drill partway into the lock and pound a fat-ass big flatblade screwdriver in there and force the thing to turn to move the bar holding the backglass in. Worked for me several times, but always a risk.

The bar could break or the backglass could break.

RussM

#14 2 years ago

Anyone got any recommendations on Drills that are not going to shatter on locks? I've had nothing but issues with Dewalt, Kobalt and Riochi.

#15 2 years ago

You can drill a backbox lock, but it's not the same as drilling a coin door lock. Rather than drill all the way through, like a coin door lock, you want to drill the tumblers. Use a bit about the size of the key slot. You'll feel each of the tumblers 'give' as the bit cuts through them. Do both sides. Once you think you've drilled enough (you probably haven't), jam a big standard screwdriver in the slot and see if you can turn it. If not, blow out the shavings and drill some more.

It's messy and usually takes a while, but eventually you'll be able to turn the lock. If you have to buy the right size drill bit, buy two as broken bits happen when drilling tumblers.

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from TechnicalSteam:

Anyone got any recommendations on Drills that are not going to shatter on locks? I've had nothing but issues with Dewalt, Kobalt and Riochi.

You need to buy a carbide tipped 1/4” drill bit. I used a regular drill bit and it would take forever to drill out a lock (2-5 minutes). With my carbide tipped drill bit; I go through a lock in 4-5 seconds, and the tip hasn’t worn down after six uses.
Champion Cutting Tool CT705-1/4X4... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004OFVWZ4

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from DropTarget:

I don't think drilling is an option on this type of locking mech, as I suspect that when the lock is drilled though, the bar that's attached to it, which rotates to remove the BG, will disengage. If that's the case I also suspect I'd be up shit's creek.
Kinda like a System 1 machine, not quite as complicated but probably drilling will make it worse.
Is that correct Forceflow?

Drill right through the center, start small and work up. If you do it right the head of the screw holding onto the mech will pop off and you just lift the backglass. I did a System one that way as well and just jiggled the door till the mech released on its own once the lock was dealt with.

20200526_192734 (resized).jpg20200526_192734 (resized).jpg
#18 2 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

You can drill a backbox lock, but it's not the same as drilling a coin door lock. Rather than drill all the way through, like a coin door lock, you want to drill the tumblers. Use a bit about the size of the key slot. You'll feel each of the tumblers 'give' as the bit cuts through them. Do both sides. Once you think you've drilled enough (you probably haven't), jam a big standard screwdriver in the slot and see if you can turn it. If not, blow out the shavings and drill some more.

Makes sense. Before I could go on site to attempt, the owner called a locksmith to make a new key.

I think it's a bit overkill, but if that's what he wants......

#19 2 years ago

I drilled a Xenon backbox lock two days ago. Took a while and left a lot of shavings on the floor, but it turned easily with a screwdriver when I was done.

#20 2 years ago

I always use my cobalt bits by Milwalkee.
Start small and make a depth mark on bit, 1".
Drill small first, then go up a step or 2, then a final drill bigger if need be. Makes lots of shavings as stated above, drill slow with high tork.
Lock will crumble into pieces and in the end you can open with big screwdriver.
Had to do an Asteroid Annie, and about 10 other Bally older heads.
I just put in new locks when done.

#21 2 years ago

I never had to drill out a lock until recently on a buddy's game. The advice these guys are giving is spot on. I was nervous at the prospect, but I even managed to drill out/open the lock within 5 mins with good drill bits followed by insertion of a flat-head screwdriver to turn the tumbler.

Just take your time and use good bits. You got this!

Edit: I see they opted for a locksmith. At least it won't be your problem, I suppose!

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

Edit: I see they opted for a locksmith. At least it won't be your problem, I suppose!

I suppose not. Actually, I'm hoping to never hear from them again.

#23 2 years ago

Sledgehammer! Problem solved

#24 2 years ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

Sledgehammer! Problem solved

Thought about it.

#25 2 years ago

I drilled the backbox lock on a High Speed yesterday. Because it isn't attached to a mechanism, just has a hasp, I was able to quickly drill all the way through it. Didn't have to drill the tumblers. Not sure if all System 11's are the same way, but the lock on High Speed is on top and just behind the backglass.

No matter what quality of drill bit you use, it will get chewed up fast due to the different metals used in the lock. A dull bit will take forever and a new bit will quickly do the job. 1/4" bit to drill all the way through, 1/8" bit to drill the tumblers.

The High Speed was in an exotic/ rare car rental place, right next to the bar. Coolest car in there was a McLaren 600, which you can see the back end of in the pic below. High Speed is behind the Ferrari pool table.

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