I am, by speaking my mind.

You are acting like a fascist cloaking themselves in wholesomeness. Telling others what to do is controlling. Remove freedom for the sake of the common good. It is pathetic.

You can be an adult by realizing not everything everyone says is good. Not everything needs to be rainbows and sunshine. Sometimes honesty is the best policy. Let me honestly tell you to stop whining like a child and suck it up.

If you obsess over costs, then yeah it's an issue. Whatever.

If you obsess over money, then sell your machines and get... money. In the end your hobby isnt really pinball, it's just making money. Congrats. Money. Hooray.

If you love pinball, still find deals and could care less about being the cool kid with the newest limited edition toy, well then all is well.

There’s no one way to do this hobby. Everyone has different means, interests, time constraints, and abilities.

Some want to own one, some want 100, some just want to play on route. Some like tournaments, some just like man vs. machine. Some like to tinker, some pay a tech.

Look at this idiot down here.....

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Bah, those are Aussie dollars. That’s like 10 bucks here

Used to be - we're doing a bit better now. About USD$30k.

He's still an idiot.

Do y'all even read some of the crap you write before hitting submit?

If people weren’t buying pins “new” and “now”, the supply of used games would dry up pretty fast. Yeah, I always prefer to not be the first owner, but that’s not always an option. SOMEONE has to start the cycle, and since everyone seems to wants “HUO” now, it can’t just be operators.

I’ve started what I think is a pretty healthy approach to pinball. Buy the game new, put it on location for 4-6 months to recoup some of the cost (and let others enjoy it), and when you’re done playing it, sell the game for what you have in it. This requires finding buyers who don’t care about HUO, but those are the the kind of people we need in the hobby.

The high prices are grest.
It will lead to more viable acteurs/companies producing games and parts.
It will lead to more reproductions/vaulted games.

In the long run more pinball machines, more variety and lower prices.

I am thinking hard about doing this again.

Prices are crazy but we should probably also be a little bit grateful as it's meant more people are entering the hobby. There was always the worry that "Pinball with die out as people in the hobby get older" but that doesn't appear to be the case. There now seems to be a healthy stream of people in their 30's and 40's buying games, including new games. As others have said we are in a new golden age of pinball.

The only bad thing about the crazy prices is well cost of entering the hobby and buying new games. I'm thankful to own 6 nice games, 5 of which are newer games. However, if it wasn't for entering the hobby 12 - 14 years ago and buying games at way lower prices I probably wouldn't have the games I do today. I've just been trading up to newer games over the years in part due to the profits made on games purchased 5 - 10 years ago.

I would not be surprised if private pinball sales become taxable in the near future, especially with the exposure it's getting. Then you'll see some changes.

Better hurry and start a new thread about it.

Step one- Turn internet off
Step two- Turn pinball machine on

ask the companies who can't get games out fast enough if these high prices are hurting the hobby? There are more companies making more games at higher prices than in decades. Look at how fast most for sale ads get sale pending. Etc. The prices indeed suck, but people are buying.

Hah yeah right I don't think anyone in this hobby would willingly do that

Let me revise:

Step one - Use the drain thread or block user feature
Step two - Turn internet off
Step three - Turn pinball machine on
Step four - come back later, minus the thread you should be draining in the first place

I noticed that the other day, lots of ads get marked pending while they’re still on the “Splash” page (i.e. within 24 hours). The percentage of games selling that way would make a good “heat” indicator. Hot market: good for sellers. Cool market: good for buyers. Things will cool down again soon, at least for B and C titles. I don’t mind if my Congo goes back to being a $3000 game, it removes the temptation to sell it.

And selling toppers for $2000+, right : ) ?

But this begs the question, how big is the potential HUO market? There once was a reason most people didn't own there own machines, and that was cost and space. There also was a time when almost EVERYONE knew about pinball, most knew how to play, and it was ubiquitous. It was everywhere, the 7-11, the Quickie Mart, the bowling alleys, bars, arcades, convenience stores, Putt-Putt, and play centers everywhere, even in the youth centers and snack bars. Any place where people had a couple of extra minutes to waste and a couple of quarters in their pockets.

That paradigm has long since been replaced with bank cards and Apple Pay, and most people are not looking for a quick game while we wait. The social engagement is now the big draw for pinball, playing with friends in a home setting, game room, or barcades, thus the rise of 30-40 somethings who are getting into the hobby. This also has driven the desire to have "nice things" because they are in peoples homes. They want shiny new or fully restored versions of the old titles, and they want new machines because they are at the least static pieces of art and it becomes an obsession.

If you have money, you have space, and this breaks down ALL barriers to HUO ownership and with the 50-60 somethings who have lots of disposable income, we have been fueling the price rise by paying for what we want, which is nostalgic remakes at $8K a pop, new title premium versions for $6-7k and collectors versions for $12k plus. Now limit the number of machines being produced (due to Covid) and suddenly demand pushes prices above NIB prices... this isn't rocket science, its only pinball. Will prices ever come back down? Not any time soon if I was a betting man.

Lol! Yes.

I agree, I also don’t think anyone is buying a game for NIB price if it’s actually available from a distributor

***goes into the bathroom and dims the lights***
**Looks in the mirror**

"Pinball Price Bubble...

Pinball Price Bubble...
(gets goosebumps)

P-p-p-pinball price bub- UHHHH I CANT DO IT"

***Runs out of the bathroom in a panic***

I just dove into pinball in February 2021. I'm 45 and decided to jump right in and pick up a NIB LZ Premium after remembering how much fun pinball was back in the day at the bowling alley in my younger years. At first i was like $7,699 - holy shit! But I work in manufacturing so I can understand why they are as expensive as they are. Tedious Mfg process and The company must turn a profit so I get it. Not many people realize the TRUE cost of full-time employee these days, and Covid and associated trends are driving up pricing too.

It is what it is. My next pin on the list is a used Metallica, so I’m watching the secondary market closely these next few months. Good for those who have disposable income but I also feel bad as this pricing easily pushes out those who want a modern machine as every home deserves one. So much fun to play!

What if my pinball machines have internet? I'm hosed

Hobbits are now selling for over $10k. I am at a loss for words. It was not long ago some would sit for months at $7k and some sold for $5800-$6500.

Ya know what? Good for those little guys.

[dumb old meme removed]

well, good on JJP then. A damn fine long-run track record. I guess that means they got the code to a place where people are keeping them.
I wish we could say the same for games like Stern's 2012 Avengers and WWE and see them come soaring back because we all do love a comeback story.

LMAO

Actually I think Hobbit was pretty good, and I miss playing it. It was a great 2nd effort for JJP.

Yeah big increase. I remember some Star Trek LE's once sold for $6k, games can go up in value and the one off low sale never represented average price. Hobbit has been selling for months on average at above $7k and is now going up more. A friend of mine sold his HUO Hobbit LE about 6 months ago for $7500 which seems like a pretty good deal now. Great loaded pin.

Hobbit is finally getting its due and has become a game a lot of people enjoy, amazing pin for the home environment too with depth to last for years. The JJP team outdid themselves with the final few code updates, an insane level of detail went into the games code. The code needed some work to say the least and JJP ended up going over the top with it. Having what is likely the deepest objective based ruleset in pinball with probably 3x the code as most modern games has helped its value too.

Now who wants my Hobbit LE for $12k? Loaded with many mods (with topper add $2k more). jk lol!

I'm tellin yah, go digital! I have been playing pinball since I was a kid and just got a VR pin. 658 tables all in 4k with feedback. All the classics from 50's to TNA including Fathom. I don't even have to worry about installing anything, eventually updates will be automatic and have online compitition. Mechanical pins people pay $$ for will eventually become wood crates when technology takes over.

No way, it's not the same thing, not even VR, not even close and I say that having built a VR pinball cabinet. Wearing goggles is awkward, can't play with others either ("Its your turn to wear the goggles"...no). It's a cool concept but its the same as flight and racing sims being its a simulation and doesn't come close to replacing the real deal.

Everyone I know that has had a full size digital pinball cabinet has sold it. Have seen it here countless times. People sell them to buy real pins as they are not a replacement for them. Finally, those $7k - $9k virtual pins will be worth $500 (if that) 10 years from now while a real pin will likely maintain if not go up in value.
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Don't underestimate the influence the pandemic has had on things... You've got people stuck at home and you're giving many of them free cash to spend to pump up the economy. The same issues are demonstrated in house sales, home improvement and to an extent the pc market and even automobiles. Demand is up everywhere and supply is at best the same, or in some cases falling.

This environment is finite. But that doesn't mean there won't be some permanent changes.

Yeah because prices historically have fallen for machines. . .

Just remember... "Past performance is no guarantee of future results." It's plastered on every investment website...

We are approaching the generation that grew up without pinball entering the disposable income bracket... Let's see if things are the same in 10 years or so...

Goggle pinball is dumb. No way would I play that. Virtual has come a long way in the past year,nudging,skill shot,4k etc. People in denial are just stubborn. I have as much fun playing it as the rest of my pins. 600+ games and titles they will never make for pinball like he-man and halloween. Worth every penny than a brick. When the online stuff hits mechanical pinball will go bust a second time.

I don't know a single person who bought pinball machines because they were stuck at home. People who bought machines already had them. Sure in some scenarios, but this illusion that people have 'all this extra money' while laid off is a falsehood. Broke people still be broke. The rich are just richer.

I have both real pins, plus a video pin cabinet, plus VR goggles. My choice to play is always real, vid, and lastly VR for all the reasons most would expect.

Real>Video>VR

I have the video pin cabinet to play the machines I can't afford to own. And thats what this thread is talking about. Prices so high that a one time purchase of a video cabinet seems like a good deal, if you can stomach video pinball at all.

P.s. I built my own full sized AFM themed video cabinet, so cost was no where near the going rate for a commercial prebuilt.
Screenshot_20210430-075928_Gallery (resized).jpg

P.p.s. Yeah, it has the animated Pinbladz and PinPanelz on it...

Mechanical pinball is going bust from virtual pinball online play? LOL. There's been online play for years in virtual pinball and meanwhile popularity for real pinball only grows. Virtual pinball has led to more people getting into real pinball machines, not the other way around. How many people are going to buy these one off virtual pinball cabinets for $7k - $8k+ to have a viable online community? Not many. Also, I don't care how good displays get they will never be able to recreate the depth of a real pin (mechs, toys, ramps, etc). Virtual pinball will always look flat (unless playing in VR).

Have you sold all of your real pins that are still in your collection? Shouldn't they be on the curb due to the marvel and technological power of virtual pinball?

There are still deals out there. Couple months ago I got a No Fear for $1900.00. Last year I got a DE Star Wars for $1,500.00 and a Williams IJ for $2300.00.

The only one that was advertised was No Fear, at an estate sale. The other 2 were word of mouth, friends who knew someone selling a game and knew I was into pinball.

Don't expect to get a deal on Craigslist or Pinside or Facebook, unless you happen to be standing next to the persons house with cash when they post it.

Network, let people know you're always looking for games. There are good deals going on right under our noses every day.

It is just few and far between now. I used to reel in at least 10 great deals per year up until COVID hit and now it is sparse. Right before COVID I got a no fear for $1800, Whirlwind for $1500, Nine Ball for $300, and a Hurricane for $1000. I have not scored anything since March of last year.

For me personally, the pricing stat that blows my mind is that I have 25 games in my collection and paid less for ALL of them combined than what some people pay for a single machine these days.

Both No Fear and IJ needed the GI and backbox connectors replaced, so figure $5 in parts and 90 minutes. No Fear needed a few bulbs and 2 flasher bulbs so maybe $3. No error messages on No Fear, it was amazing.

IJ needed a LOT of bulbs replaced, the most of any game I've ever bought, half the damn GI was out. So figure $3.50 in bulbs and another 90 min. It also had the volume problem where it would get real loud out of nowhere, new sound chip was $25, 5 min to change. No other error messages.

Star Wars had some leaky batteries but no board damage, changed the battery holder $5, 1 hour. Couple bulbs here and there.

All 3 games got a Novus wipe down and all coulda used new rubber, the Star Wars and No Fear were sold to friends immediately who did just that. IJ got a slightly more thorough cleaning and changed some rubber but not a full blown shop job.

No Fear cab was faded like most of them are. IJ and SW were both good. I was very lucky and passed them along for a very modest finders fee to a fellow Pinsider and co-worker. I kept Indy for myself.