(Topic ID: 267647)

How to determine what game EPROMs I have?

By oldschoolbob

3 years ago


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  • 18 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Quench
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    #1 3 years ago

    I acquired another Bally -17 MPU. It has what appears to be EPROMs but they are not labeled anything. As a matter of fact the UV window wasn’t even covered when I got it. Both ROMs are marked 8005 996 - MB8516. The board seems to be jumpered per PinWiki 2716 ROMs (note B) but the trace from U18 pin 4 doesn’t look to be cut (just jumpered from pin 4 to pin 5).

    Is there any way to figure out what those ROMs are and what game they’re for?

    Thanks

    Bob

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    #2 3 years ago

    The big 'F' on those chips is the Fujitsu logo.
    The '8005' is likely the manufacture date code, 05th week of 1980.
    'MB8516' is the Fujitsu part number and if you web search it you'll find it's their version of 2716.

    Read these ROMs in your programmer and save the files.

    You can use the following site - you'll need to upload the files. Personally I do CRC32 fingerprint checks on the ROMs and compare them locally to info I have but it's not so so straight forward to explain here. PinMAME is also a tool you can use locally to ROM Identify them yourself.
    http://www.arcaderestoration.com/RomIdentification.aspx

    If all this is too hard, just send me the ROM files and I'll tell you what they are.

    #3 3 years ago

    I read the ROMIDENT and it seems a little difficult (but I'm tired now). I'll probably sent them to you if you have time - i'm in no hurry. Do I read them as 2716s? I couldn't find anything on my programer for a MB8516.

    Do the jumpers and cuts look right. This board is DOA right now.

    Thanks Quench,

    Time for bed.

    Bob

    #4 3 years ago

    PS - Anything I can do on the Combo ROM?

    #5 3 years ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    Do I read them as 2716s? I couldn't find anything on my programer for a MB8516.

    Yes. Just read them as 2716 EPROMs and send them over.

    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    PS - Anything I can do on the Combo ROM?

    I need to build the adapter. It's going to be a wire spaghetti so will take a good few hours when I get some time.

    #6 3 years ago

    I don't think the EPROM identification through the burner device did not start until dip28 sized chips. My gq-4x at least will not identify 2716/2532/2732. Says device not supported.

    If your burner does not have the device MB8516 profile available the generic 2716 25Vpp or the MBM2716 will work for that chip.

    If I was going to make a combo ROM device for use on the bally MPU i'd probably do something that plugs into U9 slot or J5 so you wouldn't have to hack and slash on the MPU board. I think you can recreate the EPROM chip enable at the U9 socket with one 7400, one 4049/7404, pullup resistors, and a dip switch bank to move around the upper eprom address to game select. With a proto board it would be a lot to wire up, but doable. The EPROM pins line up decently the CPU when you rotate one of them 180 degrees.

    #8 3 years ago

    I read the U2 and U6 ROMs. I uploaded them to:

    http://www.arcaderestoration.com/RomIdentification.aspx

    either I messed something up or the files are not good.

    The board does boot up tho.

    This is the message I got from their site.

    Quench, I sent you the files - maybe you can read them when you have time - no hurry.

    Thanks

    Bob

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    #9 3 years ago

    By the way I read them using the generic 2716 25Vpp that Andrew suggested.

    And Andrew, thanks for your input on the combo ROM device. Any help you can give would be great. This isn't something I plan to produce but it's something I think would be a nice addition for the pinball community. I'm surprised you haven't made something like this already. I think it would be a nice companion to the NVRAM.

    Bob

    #10 3 years ago

    Bob,
    The U2 ROM is: E723-17.U2
    the U6 ROM is: E720-20.U6

    These ROMs are the earlier "-17" version of Eight Ball. I first dumped these and uploaded to IPDB about 2 years ago. The database in the web site I linked above is about 3 years old and doesn't know about these.

    #11 3 years ago

    I cant wait to get to the level you guys are at so I can understand what the heck you’re talking about

    #12 3 years ago

    I think the U9 module eprom enable could be as simple as this. NAND chip 74HCT00 and you shouldnt need any pull up resistors on the daughter board.

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    For the EPROM to make combining roms go in numeric U1, U2, U5, U6 order, EPROM typical A12 is wired to CPU A11 and EPROM A11 gets wired to CPU A14. /CE is grounded. Then wire up the rest of the address pins used typically on the MPU EPROM. The left over upper most address blocks route to a dip switch with pull up resistors so when the switch is closed that address is grounded. When the switch is open the address is pulled high. That will let you select 64K chunks of ROM in a bigger chip.

    Build the 7400 NAND, EPROM socket, CPU socket, and dip switch on a proto board. Use socket mating headers to plug into the U9 socket.

    #13 3 years ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    I cant wait to get to the level you guys are at so I can understand what the heck you’re talking about

    Me too, I know just enough to be dangerous. The way I learn is to ask a lot of questions. Luckily we have a bunch of talented and helpful people here that are willing to answer questions and teach. I'd be lost without them.

    Bob

    #14 3 years ago

    In my first post I mentioned that this board seems to be jumpered for 2716 ROMs. Except the trace from U18 pin 4 wasn't cut. Today I verified that I do have continuity from pin 4 AND pin 5 to the via. PinWiki says to cut the trace from pin 4 and connect to pin 5. Looks like pin 4 and pin 5 are jumpered together.

    The board boots fine but why?

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    #15 3 years ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    Looks like pin 4 and pin 5 are jumpered together.

    Ouch!!
    Has pin 4 been cut on the chip itself maybe? (top side of the board)

    #16 3 years ago

    Not in the shop right now. Best photo I have on file. I think you're right - looks like pin 4 was cut on top. Why would someone do that?

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    #17 3 years ago

    Tonight I found a couple more oddities on this board. I checked several other boards I have and none have these changes. First – just below U10 and connected to C11 someone added what looks like a capacitor. The color and markings look like other capacitors on this board so it may be original. Any idea why it’s there?

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    Next, just to the right of J4 is a string of capacitors (C68 – C75) except C75 looks like a resistor. ???

    This is the board that is jumpered for 2716 ROMs. Could these oddities be related to that? And what’s amazing to me is the board boots fine.

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    #18 3 years ago
    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    Not in the shop right now. Best photo I have on file. I think you're right - looks like pin 4 was cut on top. Why would someone do that?

    I've seen that method done before - maybe it was normal practice at some time.

    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    First – just below U10 and connected to C11 someone added what looks like a capacitor.

    That's factory, I've seen that before. Haven't looked at what it's for.

    Quoted from oldschoolbob:

    Next, just to the right of J4 is a string of capacitors (C68 – C75) except C75 looks like a resistor. ???

    It's actually a capacitor. Yes it can be hard to tell the difference but usually the two silver color bands are a bit of a giveaway. I have some Bally MPU boards that have all capacitors in that style.

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