(Topic ID: 151772)

How to determine GND short cause?

By robm

8 years ago



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  • 9 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by mot
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 8 years ago

I have recently got a Roadshow going that had been sitting for a number of years with a range of faults with an operator.

Played fine for 10 games once i got it going, then had a shutdown mid game and got a ground short error.

Replaced U20 and U23, problem fixed....for another 15 games, then same thing has just happened.

So I assume there is a loose/stripped/kinked wire somewhere (presumably from a coil or lamp) that is shorting through a switch or switch wire and taking out the U20 and U23 chips- is this correct?

Does the fact that it takes out 3 rows (5 ,7 andmean anything - ie: should i be looking at switches and wiring associated with those 3 rows, or could it be any switch.

I have had a reasonable look, and most switches look OK, and coils that are mounted near switches don't have any obvious loose wires near a switch wire.

Anything else i can look for, or quick tests that could narrow the search down (i am thinking not, since the problems appears very intermittent)?

Once it happened when i had 3 balls locked and preparing for multiball, the next time it was going for the blast zone - so different coils/switches at work both times.

#2 8 years ago

What other WPC games do you have?

#3 8 years ago

I dont have any other wpcs games. Have spares of all other boards except mpu for wpcs.

#4 8 years ago

Did you disconnect the switch matrix connectors on the MPU to determine if the problem is on-board or off-board?

Edit: just confirming the= 8 + )

#5 8 years ago

I tried annotating the switch layout to highlight rows 5, 7, and 8 to see if they have anything in common.

I didn't find much.

The Eddy boards for "Hit Red" and "Hit Bulldozer" are on row 7.
The Eddy board for "Hit Ted" is on row 8.
The bulldozer opto board uses rows 2 and 5.
The 7-opto board uses rows 1-6.

Is this a board problem?

roadshow_(resized).pngroadshow_(resized).png

#6 8 years ago

To me, it is a board problem, caused by an intermittent wiring issue - if that makes sense?

Removing all the switch row and column plugs form the MPU - problem remained, so i replace U20 and U23 (now socketed), and problem disappeared for another 15 games or so. Then the game reset mid game (just as i hit the blast zone - although the previous time was starting a mutiball), then came up with the GND short error again.

So to me, i am assuming there is a wiring issue causing the problem, maybe there is an intermittent board issue though? That said, the board itself looks pretty good, no corrosion or previous work i can see.

Both times the reset and error occurred mid game was when the shaker motor was going - this may be pure coincidence, however i do wonder if the extra vibration is causing an intermittent short somewhere - keeping in mind the shaker has gone off plenty of times with no problem.

#7 8 years ago
Quoted from mot:

Did you disconnect the switch matrix connectors on the MPU to determine if the problem is on-board or off-board?
Edit: just confirming the = 8 + )

Ha ha -yes the smiley was row 8, followed by ).... nice pickup!

#8 8 years ago

The only other further information i can think of was i first replaced u20, and the GND short error disappeared, however no switches in column 7 worked - which led me to replacing U23 - then it all worked fine. So i paid extra attention to checking all the switches and diodes and coils near those column switches to see if there was a leg of something that might be shorting....with nothing obvious.

#9 8 years ago

When I had a Road Show, I remember once upon a time accidentally discovering that the 'Start City' kickout scoop was shorted to a coil log and was hot at 50V.

I think the blast zone or scoop kickout have to be your main suspects here. There's just a lot of targets and a lot of metal under the playfield there.

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