(Topic ID: 181609)

How "Roppy" is Aerosmith?


By pinlawyer

2 years ago



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  • 44 posts
  • 29 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Cobray
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 2 years ago

Lonnie's a great guy, but his code is formulaic. Of those who have played it, is there any reason to expect non-Roppy code in the end?

#2 2 years ago

Clue me in - what does "Roppy"mean?

#3 2 years ago

I hit this thread just for that word. Its a 1st for me but fun to say. It would be a cool dog name.

#4 2 years ago

In 4 the Roppy

#5 2 years ago

You can judge for yourself by watching this video:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/121167845

The code is pretty mature for a new Stern and I would expect few major changes from the concepts shown.

#6 2 years ago

Lonnie Ropp is software programmer. So I guess OP is asking if it will be similar to previous games of his? I thought he meant ropey, as in linear, so I looked it up.

24
#7 2 years ago

I guess it's not going to be all that Sheaty after all.

#8 2 years ago

Read it as 'Rompy'. My Bad.

#9 2 years ago

Lonnie has some good rules for games that he was lead on...

- Iron Man
- Family Guy/Shrek
- Mustang
- Star Trek
- Avatar
- Big Buck Hunter

There is a key "TRICK" to getting great rules though - you *HAVE* to revisit the rules after the game is out there to re-balance the rules/scoring and increase the fun factor. It is impossible to know how people will adapt and react to the rules until a LOT of people have played the game for a while. This feedback (not all of it, but definitely obvious points of improvement) should be used to really make a game shine. Sometimes this happens, sometimes not.

#10 2 years ago

Roppy...Lol...I like it. He means shoot this 2x, shoot this 2x..etc. Not much elegance or creativity.

PS: He has gotten better though. I guess he reads our threads.

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from pinlawyer:

his code is formulaic.

Do you have any specific examples?

#12 2 years ago

The Lead? What makes you think that?

Quoted from T7:

Lonnie has some good rules for games that he was lead on...
- Iron Man
- Family Guy/Shrek
- Mustang
- Star Trek
- Avatar
- Big Buck Hunter
There is a key "TRICK" to getting great rules though - you *HAVE* to revisit the rules after the game is out there to re-balance the rules/scoring and increase the fun factor. It is impossible to know how people will adapt and react to the rules until a LOT of people have played the game for a while. This feedback (not all of it, but definitely obvious points of improvement) should be used to really make a game shine. Sometimes this happens, sometimes not.

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Do you have any specific examples?

IJ4 is a particularly bad offender IIRC.

#14 2 years ago

It's very "Roppy". Don't buy it until they bring in another programmer to "unropp" it.

#15 2 years ago

I think Aerosmith is going to be very very good and sell really well! I didn't think it had a chance until I seen it being played.

#16 2 years ago

I get it! I did not know Lonnie's last name.

#17 2 years ago

I think it has promise and potential, but there's already a signature 'Roppy' built into sweet emotion. Hard as nails to complete, must complete in one attempt, no memory progression, only way to progress in the game is completing it. Can we say Optimus prime anyone?

Other than that; song mode rules look generic yet appealing at the same time. Similar and repetitive shot patterns, but appears to be decent awards for completing and doing good, meaning good scoring rewards.

Shoot loops to light elevator; shoot elevator to locks balls, then play upper pf for a chance of double scoring. A lot of ppl dog the upper pf but I think there's a good synergy with these rules and its gameplay. What I am curious about is whether that is all there is to the upper pf, or can you enable triple scoring by completing it again while double scoring is active? And how does starting double scoring compare to doing it on the pro? Is there incentive to having an upper pf, is there more risk/reward than just starting double scoring, like making a push for triple scoring? Unfortunately, it appears to be the former in which were lost in the 'Ropp' zone.

Sparky....err Jacky multi ball has some great risk/reward similar to gear shift multi ball, more balls in play, the more rewarding it is. Not to mention the rules to elevator multi ball look great. We haven't got to see the wizard modes much but Lonnie has done some exceptional work in this area with both xmen and mustang.

There is also an extra element added into Aerosmith with shot multipliers; he has this in transformers and executed well again in Aerosmith.

Overall, Aerosmith looks well coded and one of Lonnies better games. But I fear the game is still missing high scoring dynamics and strategies as well risk/reward elements. But I do like what I've seen on Aerosmith and have spent many focused hours watching The dead flip stream. They seemed to enjoy playing this pin much much more than the BM66 and GB streams. Can't wait to play one for final judgement.

#18 2 years ago
Quoted from pinlawyer:

Lonnie's a great guy, but his code is formulaic. Of those who have played it, is there any reason to expect non-Roppy code in the end?

The best indicator of future performance is past performance. And it's better to have reasonable expectations, even low expectations, that are exceeded than to have high expectations that are unmet (and often unrealistic).

Lonnie's most recent earlier history is the Kiss pin release. Many here expected Kiss, being a music pin, to be as good or better than ACDC and MET.... which is ridiculous considering that those two pins were coded by an entirely different person (Lyman). That obviously hasn't happened, so now there are some Kiss owners who have been slamming the Kiss pin relentlessly. Crazy as it's like cutting your nose off to spite your face. So if you expect/want MET/ACDC level awesome, or are sensitive to some owners bringing out the pitchforks down the line because AES isn't MET/ACDC level awesome, consider avoiding AES or wait and see.

Many other people have a more balanced view of Kiss. It is not Lyman epic, but it is reasonable overall... and deeper coded than most every 90's pin. Kiss does need another update to finish it (or get it close) and owners have been waiting far to too long for the next update. Another update is in the pipeline for Kiss and it should help make the pin even better, but (again) one shouldn't expect miracles (which some appear to be doing at their own peril for big disappointment). If such things are a problem, again it's best to avoid AES or wait and see.

If you think the Kiss pin is relatively reasonable overall, then strongly consider AES. Some people have noted similarities between Kiss and AES beyond Lonnie and Borg, even to the point of similar pf layouts.

Add in the other games Lonnie has coded significantly and make a decision on how much you like them.

#19 2 years ago

Would KISS rules be described a 'roppy' as well then or ' unfinished roppy'? KISS certainly needs a BIG polish and it could be pretty good.

#20 2 years ago

Lastly to add on to my post; personally, I think Lonnie is finally finding a very good groove, by finally listening to people on TF and adding memory progression to some cool rules in mustang. I think Aerosmith looks to be one of his best and will be a dark horse hit in the end. Sweet emotion is really my only concern about the game as it stands now. But I still reserve my right for final judgement til I play both versions.

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

. Hard as nails to complete, must complete in one attempt, no memory progression, only way to progress in the game is completing it.

F....that. Inexcusable at this point.

#22 2 years ago

This. Every mode is "shoot the lit shot, combo into other lit shot, repeat until done." There's no variation at all other than where the initial arrows are. Nothing like "clear off these shots", or "shoot this long sequence of shot" or "hit the moving shot" that I'm aware of.

I like KISS, but it's not because of the rules, it's because Borg made a challenging game to shoot with that starchild hole (lol) and the right ramp being a tough shot.

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

F....that. Inexcusable at this point.

It's true. And the more I think about it, the more I hate games that you play the same mode more than once and Lonnie is famous for this....TF, xmen, mustang, ST, and now Aerosmith song modes. If a game is focused on playing modes make it one and done with 2-3 tiers of rewards. Score good, get a reward. Score good and complete it, get a bigger reward. Ignore the mode completely, no sugar for you! But please don't make me play it again and again and again all in one game.

#24 2 years ago

Ah, but Mustang is the exception, I think. Not only are the shots nice and varied, I'm *fairly* sure that if you complete the mode in the specific manner of blinking arrows instead of just whacking all the lit shots, then that mode should be done. At the very least, I thought this was the case for Cruisin'....is it just higher points to follow the blinker? I find it hard to believe it's just higher points...but even if that's the case, then the game is at least setting you up for what to expect from the "hard" mode to finish the insert, in that it's trying to get you to shoot them in order, while the hard mode MAKES you shoot them in order. So that's something good, IMO. Also, the multiball risk/reward on Mustang is amazeballs. I think it's actually a bit broken, because 5 and 6 ball multiball are RIDICULOUSLY lucrative, while 3 ball Gear Shift is almost totally worthless, and Burnout is just some free potshots you take while cradling a second ball.

Really like Mustang. Wish it wasn't such a poor game on location...you'd think with less moving stuff it would break less, but I can't get my local operator to do simple things like ziptie connectors to the trough and drop targets...if you've never played a mustang where the drops don't reset....trust me it's not fun.

#25 2 years ago

I've seen Zizzle games coded better than some of Lonnie's. IJ4 is a prime example of a poorly coded game. I hope he is able to turn it around with Aerosmith and change my opinion.

#26 2 years ago

I think it will be as Roppy as it is Borgy.

#27 2 years ago

I for one can't wait to get my hands on Aerosmith and play it; I have talked to several people that have played it and they all said the same thing which is that it plays great and could be the sleeper hit for stern this year and they also said if you like Metallica then you will love Aerosmith

#28 2 years ago

To me I don't think any Stern in the last five years has been "bad" because of the coder. It's mostly been layout that's determined a games success. Non standard layouts like Mustang, Avengers and WWE have earned less praise than fan layouts like Metallica, Star Trek, Iron Man. The exception to this would be Walking Dead, which is a fan layout except for the right loop feed from the pops, but the code is so good people haven gotten over that.

Also not every game is going to be a multiplier driven complexity-fest. Some pins are "do the thing" and win. I like the variety, some days I just want to shoot the five shots forever to start wizard mode like Iron Man. Some days I want to make big risk/reward decisions like not using a big inlane multiplier to wait for the next one in WD

#29 2 years ago

I played AS Pro on location in Hollywood, CA a few days ago. The code seems pretty good so far to me - it was fun. Like the toy box multiball rules. Wouldn't say its an easy game at all. I didn't get deep enough to know all the stacking rules. Animations (not Lonnie) and the lightshow are very well done.

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#30 2 years ago

Good looking machine with a killer light show and nice LED animations. Cant wait to play one!

1 week later
#31 2 years ago
Quoted from T7:

Lonnie has some good rules for games that he was lead on...
- Iron Man

With Lyman

With Keith

With Dwight

Quoted from T7:

- Avatar
- Big Buck Hunter

With Lyman

#32 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

With Lyman

With Keith

With Dwight

With Lyman

Everyone has to have a mentor Rare, cut the guy some slack! If you have seen gameplay footage of Aerosmith you can't deny it's greatness so far dude for real. AS looks like it's gonna be a hit to me! Two heads are better than one, I'm glad these guys are working together, it's good for all of us.

#33 2 years ago
Quoted from RazerX:

The Lead? What makes you think that?

They always list the lead programmer first in the credits on the machine.

#34 2 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

If you have seen gameplay footage of Aerosmith you can't deny it's greatness so far dude for real.

Lol you and your absolutes. I can and will deny its "greatness". Look forward to playing it, though....definitely looks better than Kiss, GOT, B66 and GB, though! I'll give it that.

#35 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Lol you and your absolutes. I can and will deny its "greatness". Look forward to playing it, though....definitely looks better than Kiss, GOT, B66 and GB, though! I'll give it that.

Far better than Kiss and BM66, but I'm not so sure about GB and GOT. GOT is a damn good game Rare.

#36 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

I played AS Pro on location in Hollywood, CA a few days ago. The code seems pretty good so far to me - it was fun. Like the toy box multiball rules. Wouldn't say its an easy game at all. I didn't get deep enough to know all the stacking rules. Animations (not Lonnie) and the lightshow are very well done.

Played this machine too, about three times, and moved onto other games, which surprised me because I went just to play it (and the rest of the games there are in various levels of garbage condition). Was just bored with it, probably because generic feeling rules very similar to kiss with basically the same layout. Did the abort until qualifying 6-ball multiball thing and it didn't score much better than 4-ball, nor was it much harder to get. Compare this to the difficulty / anxiety / risk of working toward six balls in mustang and the huge reward / excitement for pulling it off. Will give it more chances at launch party but found it thoroughly meh at first blush

#37 2 years ago
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:

Played this machine too, about three times, and moved onto other games, which surprised me because I went just to play it (and the rest of the games there are in various levels of garbage condition). Was just bored with it, probably because generic feeling rules very similar to kiss with basically the same layout. Did the abort until qualifying 6-ball multiball thing and it didn't score much better than 4-ball, nor was it much harder to get. Compare this to the difficulty / anxiety / risk of working toward six balls in mustang and the huge reward / excitement for pulling it off. Will give it more chances at launch party but found it thoroughly meh at first blush

Was this on a pro? If so, any idea how double or triple scoring is activated?

#38 2 years ago

Was a pro and didn't stick around long enough to figure out how to or if I ended up activating it

#39 2 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Far better than Kiss and BM66, but I'm not so sure about GB and GOT. GOT is a damn good game Rare.

Well, as you and I know - GB is the worst playing game Stern has ever made...so, really it's all uphill from there.

GOT is "eh". It's smooth/fast, but there are better Ritchie games for that type of action. It's too ugly to own, too featureless to warrant its price....and the rules are just too "memorization chess" for me ...it isn't an organic rule set like other deep games I enjoy. Oh, and the monochrome red video footage? Barf. Love them theme, but it could be utilized better. Voice clips from the show seem very underutilized. But I'll play it on location and keep flipping till I get to Hand of the King & Winter is Coming even though I'm not sure why lol.

#40 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Well, as you and I know - GB is the worst playing game Stern has ever made...so, really it's all uphill from there.
GOT is "eh". It's smooth/fast, but there are better Ritchie games for that type of action. It's too ugly to own, too featureless to warrant its price....and the rules are just too "memorization chess" for me ...it isn't an organic rule set like other deep games I enjoy. Oh, and the monochrome red video footage? Barf. Love them theme, but it could be utilized better. Voice clips from the show seem very underutilized. But I'll play it on location and keep flipping till I get to Hand of the King & Winter is Coming even though I'm not sure why lol.

Because if you like a challenge it's a good game to give you that. GOT is a shooters game, takes skill.

#41 2 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Because if you like a challenge it's a good game to give you that. GOT is a shooters game, takes skill.

I find GOT relatively easy to play...but I'm sure the main fun for fans is the nuance of how the code works - which I'll admit, I just don't get it. I just start houses, shoot all the colored shots, start Blackwater Multiballs, etc. it plays nice and smooth, per Ritchie - there's just nothing "Holy shit I want to own this" about it...it's a good location game.

#42 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I find GOT relatively easy to play...but I'm sure the main fun for fans is the nuance of how the code works - which I'll admit, I just don't get it. I just start houses, shoot all the colored shots, start Blackwater Multiballs, etc. it plays nice and smooth, per Ritchie - there's just nothing "Holy shit I want to own this" about it...it's a good location game.

i feel the same way. i really wanted to like this game a lot. but there just isnt a reason why i should own it. i think it is a more cerebral game than visual.

#43 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I find GOT relatively easy to play...but I'm sure the main fun for fans is the nuance of how the code works - which I'll admit, I just don't get it. I just start houses, shoot all the colored shots, start Blackwater Multiballs, etc. it plays nice and smooth, per Ritchie - there's just nothing "Holy shit I want to own this" about it...it's a good location game.

(From a Pro owner)

It is the nuances that work in the game. I find that I need to be shooting fast to really get it going. Almost like you need to plan 2 shots ahead at all times, and on the days you can hit them, it sings. You already know just the shot you need for the multipliers, and building them up is a blast because the values increase quickly.

Which means it is a bit of a cerebral scoring game. There are minor bits of quests, but they are secondary to crushing the game with scoring numbers. I was going to sell mine, but then I took a real shine to the game. I do think that the game needs a collection around it. I don't think it would stand well as an only game. But as is, it's pretty fun for what it is.

#44 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Well, as you and I know - GB is the worst playing game Stern has ever made...so, really it's all uphill from there.
GOT is "eh". It's smooth/fast, but there are better Ritchie games for that type of action. It's too ugly to own, too featureless to warrant its price....and the rules are just too "memorization chess" for me ...it isn't an organic rule set like other deep games I enjoy. Oh, and the monochrome red video footage? Barf. Love them theme, but it could be utilized better. Voice clips from the show seem very underutilized. But I'll play it on location and keep flipping till I get to Hand of the King & Winter is Coming even though I'm not sure why lol.

Spot on. Couldn't have said it better.

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