(Topic ID: 274434)

how ridiculous...this Pinside Top 100 ranking

By ParisPinballAdct

11 months ago


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  • 129 posts
  • 69 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 66 days ago by Coz
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    There are 129 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
    #101 6 months ago

    Another idea would be to have a top 25 list that is measured differently. Instead of having users rate pins randomly, you have each participant actually rank 1-25 from a list of the top 100 pins. This way, every participant actually ranks all of the machines. You would then simply tabulate scores by assigning values to rank (e.g. 1 point for a first position ranking, 2 for a second position, etc.) From here, the pin with the lowest total would be ranked #1, the next lowest #2, etc.

    Not saying to replace the top 100, but this would be an interesting addition to see how the two different methods would compare.

    #102 6 months ago

    Twilight Zone is the all-time greatest......according to IPDB. But MM is the GOAT. Absolute pinball perfection. It will hold the top spot and fart in the general direction of all wannabe contenders.

    -2
    #103 6 months ago
    Quoted from SLAMT1LT:

    But MM is the GOAT.

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    #104 6 months ago

    Star wars number 2? We needed something like this to happen to lighten the mood of 2021.

    #105 6 months ago
    Quoted from SLAMT1LT:

    Twilight Zone is the all-time greatest......according to IPDB. But MM is the GOAT. Absolute pinball perfection. It will hold the top spot and fart in the general direction of all wannabe contenders.

    Between those two I prefer Medieval Madness by a large margin. Just my opinion of course.

    #106 6 months ago

    The top 100 is just a list. Everyone's personal top 100 can certainly differ. Nostalgia, newness, and individual preferences greatly vary. It is no surprise that recent games dominate it because they just have newer technology and deeper rule sets. Some games truly stand the test of time, however.

    I like the list. I think it is the most accurate and best thought out pinball ranking ever compiled. It also allows for individual preference tinkering. Either way, it affords newbies and seasoned collectors alike a genuine pulse on what's out there and general popularity.

    Like it or not, it is a very useful tool.

    #107 6 months ago
    Quoted from Apex:

    Back when Zach and Dennis were doing TWIP, they had a segment where Dennis did an audio version of the drag and drop list. I thought Dennis covered his thought process well. I thought at the time that this is how the top 100 should go.
    Count me in for a "Head to Head" top 100 list too. I say Head to Head as I don't want to tell Robin how to code and implement it, lol.
    Thinking about the implementation some more could it just be a series of machine a vs. machine b questions and an algorithm (I know it is easy to say when you don't have to develop it) to compare all the results? I wonder how many questions it would take to get a realistic sense of ranking all 500 odd games?

    Quoted from renvhoek:

    As a new user and relatively new pinballer, I find the top 100 critical to me to let me know where to start. There are > 1000 pinballs (I think). The list gives me a starting place. I do find the comments invaluable, of course.
    So I'll pick a pinball in the top 100 that I like the theme on, start reading all the comments. From those, people might mention another game, I then follow that comment to another pinball and read those comments. The "brought home" thread is wonderful for research as well. I see what people have bought, they often say why. Then I go read comments on those games. learned about stuff not in the top 100 that way.
    I flew out to the pinball hall of fame in vegas a couple of months ago. There are 100s of pinballs in there. I had 2 1/2 hours. I think I managed to play 25 pinballs in that time. The top 100 was a good guide for me to know which ones to try.
    - Jon

    Fairly certain there are over 7000 pinball machines. Last I checked IPDB, their most recent entry as of today is 6769 for reference Led Zeppelin is number 6760. If you want to count/guesstimate the literal hundreds and thousands of lost and unknown machines from the woodrail/bingo/pre-war era then I would safely wager over 10 thousand unique pinball titles exist.

    Think of how many one-offs, prototypes and experimental games never saw the light of day. The actual Golden Age of pinball was the 30s and 40s when hundreds of manufacturers existed and Gottlieb and Bally had just started.

    #108 6 months ago

    lots of replies to my own thread which I hadn't scouted in months! ha!

    thanks a lot and especially Pinside founder Robin for taking the time to bring in your inputs. much appreciated.

    to be fair and "basic", I would just say this: I don't know that there is a "need" for a complete computer re-engineering of the TOP 100. more just a little adjustment in the "how many ratings" shall be needed to be ranked.

    I would think that most of us agree that 25 ratings is too low a number and flows the ranking.

    What about just simply raising this number slightly so that it matters most, makes more sense at all?

    #109 6 months ago

    I briefly looked at the list when I first discovered the site. The actual rankings never meant anything to me, I just wanted to discover pins maybe I had missed. I would much prefer everyone could create say their personal top 25. Then it could compile together people with similar taste. Things like this pinsider shares 20 of your top 25 but he also likes these 5. The whole this pin is better than that pin to me is just silly.

    #110 6 months ago

    I reckon it is natural to "rank" things, anything.
    We always do that don't we? we rank Quarterbacks, songs, movies, you name it.
    I don't have an issue with "ranking the all time best pins", i love it actually hence my thread.

    let's have a quick look at the Quarterback rating system.
    to qualify on the "all time top ranked passer list", a QB needs to have at least 1,500 throws.
    not saying is enough or not but this number makes sure that a hotshot rookie QB with 565 throws in his rookie year doesn't get to be at the top of the all time rating system vs. Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers, straight away.

    therefore, WHY would only 25 ratings (by NIB buyers) would qualify TMNT vs. Twilight Zone and Medieval Madness??
    THAT is the part I have an issue with.

    3 months later
    #111 76 days ago

    Led Zeppelin is #1. That's all you need to know about how ridiculous rankings are.

    #112 76 days ago
    Quoted from seenev:

    Led Zeppelin is #1. That's all you need to know about how ridiculous rankings are.

    Interesting disparity that LZ LE is #1, but the Pro model with a score of 7.293, would place at #214 on the list

    #113 76 days ago
    Quoted from cait001:

    Interesting disparity that LZ LE is #1, but the Pro model with a score of 7.293, would place at #214 on the list

    Hmmm. It's a real brain scratcher, isn't it?

    The ranking system is so manipulated, here.

    #114 76 days ago

    The only change I'd make to the rankings is a game can't be rated until it's been out for six months. Three at minimum, but I'd personally go with six. This should stop a good deal of the vote bombing (positive and negative) that some of the fanboys around here partake in (oftentimes flat out recruiting for vote bombing in owner threads for that game), and would also give the pin a chance to expand to locations so early ratings aren't a majority of "I have $10,000 invested in this, so of course I think it's a great game." Both Stern and JJP do their top end home buyer models first, then they do the lowest tier, then they do middle tiers. Give the lowest tier a chance to get out there to bars and arcades before ratings start coming in.

    Otherwise I love the rating system here. So many categories but you can exclude or up/down weight any of them. It's great.

    #115 75 days ago

    Game "groups" (e.g. Pro/Prem/LE) are totally broken using the BEST score to represent the entire group. Should either be an arithmetic average, or arguably even the WORST score from the group, since then every machine under the banner would meet the standard (such as it is) of that rating.

    #116 71 days ago
    Quoted from seenev:

    Led Zeppelin is #1. That's all you need to know about how ridiculous rankings are.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with the top 100 system. The problem lies in the people using it. You can make adjustments and change the variables all you want and people will still try to manipulate it for some reason.

    -5
    #117 70 days ago

    Pinside ranking is just for fun, it is completely useless as far as what number a game ranks. I have used the system to read peoples opinions of a particular game and to me that is about all it is good for. Just taking a look at the top five says it all. People are still clinging to MM, AFM, TZ, MB etc. I am not sure any of these game belong in the top 30 anymore. There are way better games than anything (or most) in the top 5 or even the top ten. So people can manipulate it all they want, it is junk data.

    #118 69 days ago

    i would respectfully disagree with your take, i believe a game should first withstand the test of time before being considered an all-time great.
    that MM, AFM, TZ, MB are still at the very top 30 years on say a lot about how great these games are.
    Not because a game is new, has "code" in it, makes it a more valuable game than one done 30 years ago: actually I would argue with anyone that these Bally/Williams games have lots more mechs and world under glass and magical moments then most, if not all, recent releases.
    New isn't necessarily better.

    that being said, yes, this ranking is a joke.

    #119 69 days ago

    What needs to be changed is a new category needs to be made apart from EM and games up to about WOZ. When the monitors went into the backglass games are more like computers and can do so much more like take you on adventures. Dmd or digital displays before can't ever compete with the arcade like capabilities of today.

    #120 69 days ago
    Quoted from Viggin900:

    What needs to be changed is a new category needs to be made apart from EM and games up to about WOZ. When the monitors went into the backglass games are more like computers and can do so much more like take you on adventures. Dmd or digital displays before can't ever compete with the arcade like capabilities of today.

    And yet they do. Often times those big monitors go under utilized. Look at avengers. They couldn't even be bothered to animated the damn thing. No animation. Literally pictures sorta shaking as they "fight" one another.

    A big screen tv doesnt make a movie better. It gives the movie a chance to shine, but at the end of the day the game has to still be good to utilize it well. And not many do. I would say deadpool does a fine job. But know what does a great job, too? AFM.

    EDIT: furthermore, having a separate category for twilight zone and dialed in will piss people off. It would make it harder to truly know which game is actually better. Makes no sense, my man.

    #121 69 days ago
    Quoted from seenev:

    Led Zeppelin is #1. That's all you need to know about how ridiculous rankings are.

    Lol yeah. Some new scores must have recently come in, down to 40 something.

    #122 69 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Lol yeah. Some new scores must have recently come in, down to 40 something.

    I ranked it high as hell (#2 on my personal list) but yea I own one and personal bias mainly because I love Led Zeppelin. It really is a fantastic pinball though (if they can ever fix the damn magic spinner) and easily one of my favorite newer stern titles. #1? Nah, but definitely top 10-15 material imo.

    Had I loved Iron Maiden or GnR as much as Zeppelin they would probably sit a little higher on my list.

    MM will always be my #1, it’s the perfect pinball and for the time it was made was and still even in some ways above all the rest (toys, animations, callouts etc).

    At the end of the day though it’s a fun list and I enjoy ranking the games I’ve played. I don’t get why people get so concerned with rankings unless they’re either trying to justify to themselves they made a wise purchase decision or they want to trade their stinker (GnR) for a winner (Led Zeppelin) in the future.

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    #123 69 days ago

    What is ridiculous it is the gap between Premium and LE for Strange things, TMNT

    Quoted from ParisPinballAdct:

    i would respectfully disagree with your take, i believe a game should first withstand the test of time before being considered an all-time great.
    that MM, AFM, TZ, MB are still at the very top 30 years on say a lot about how great these games are.
    Not because a game is new, has "code" in it, makes it a more valuable game than one done 30 years ago: actually I would argue with anyone that these Bally/Williams games have lots more mechs and world under glass and magical moments then most, if not all, recent releases.
    New isn't necessarily better.
    that being said, yes, this ranking is a joke.

    new games have better and deeper code.
    but Code doesn't make it all. i still consider MM gets the best sound package out there

    i don't think pinside ranking is ridiculous but some game as TMNT, Stranges things or Led Zeppelin. these games have a gap too much big between LE and premium while there is only the artwork department to rank them

    #124 69 days ago

    The rating system is too easily manipulated. LZ is a great example. Last week, maybe Thursday or Friday, it’s rated #1 with 186 ratings. One day later it drops to 45 with 228 ratings. Since then, not a single new rating has come in. Pretty odd you get 42 new ratings come in overnight and then not another one for days.

    #125 69 days ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    Since then, not a single new rating has come in. Pretty odd you get 42 new ratings come in overnight and then not another one for days.

    They only update the ratings/rankings once a week, not as every rating comes in.

    #126 68 days ago
    Quoted from Viggin900:

    What needs to be changed is a new category needs to be made apart from EM and games up to about WOZ. When the monitors went into the backglass games are more like computers and can do so much more like take you on adventures. Dmd or digital displays before can't ever compete with the arcade like capabilities of today.

    Yes, this is what needs to happen. Separation between eras. Much more is done today just by natural evolution, different mechs., better use of old mechs. new ideas and better code writing. So in my opinion there are games in the top 10 that I feel just cannot compete with what is put out today. That doesn't mean a particular game from the past stinks, it just means that it is difficult for all these game to compete for the top.

    #127 68 days ago
    Quoted from Lermods:

    The rating system is too easily manipulated. LZ is a great example. Last week, maybe Thursday or Friday, it’s rated #1 with 186 ratings. One day later it drops to 45 with 228 ratings. Since then, not a single new rating has come in. Pretty odd you get 42 new ratings come in overnight and then not another one for days.

    The fact that GnR and POTC are both in the top 3 are laughable and says everything it needs too. The list is based on what collectors value them at and not how good of a pin they actually are. Not saying LZ should have been #1 but neither GnR or POTC are really that great themselves but if you look at who rated what and who owns what it's pretty clear it was raided by salty JJP fans.

    -1
    #128 68 days ago
    Quoted from mbeardsley:

    They only update the ratings/rankings once a week, not as every rating comes in.

    Didn’t know that, good point.

    #129 66 days ago

    Wow!!!!

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