(Topic ID: 184100)

How often do you see: more than one cause to a single problem

By chadderack

2 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 3 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Otaku
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders


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    #1 2 years ago

    I've seen this in my professional career looking for software bugs; you find something that's definitely wrong in the code, but fixing that alone doesn't fix the problem. You find another cause and fix that, and then maybe the entire "bug" is fixed.

    Just ran into an issue like this with some optos on Dirty Harry today.

    Opened up the machine to troubleshoot opto switch 42 (a really tricky bastard that you have to remove the ramp to get at).... and found a wire broken off the solder lug.

    Naturally I resoldered and tried it out. Nothing. Figured something might be wrong with my soldering so I reflowed. Nothing again. Swapped out the transmitter and tried that. Nothing. Found this thread and based on his comment, swapped the wires on the transmitter. Still nothing.

    So I decided to go get a little flashlight at the store to put in between the optos to see if I could make the switch close (the switch has been showing as "open" when it's supposed to be closed as default).

    The shiny light did nothing to the switch. Didn't make the receiver close the switch.

    Tried the same light on the other optos (in the ramps) and they all responded fine. Light on, switch closed. Click light off, switch open.

    So my receiver is bad, too!

    Two different causes (so far). Otherwise the game is working 100%.


    What are your experiences like this? How many different causes do you remember leading to the same single problem? More than 2? How often?

    These types of "bugs" are the most frustrating!

    #2 2 years ago

    The Radical I was working on came in with a burnt GI connector. Replaced that. Lightbox still only half lights. Continuity testing from the transformer onwards now gets the the insert GI relay. Broken solder joint (several actually, both the relay coil and one side of the normally closed contacts). Fixed those too and the insert lights correctly and has flashing effects now too.

    The playfield GI relay also had a broken solder joint, but on the coil rather than the normally closed contacts so it was less noticeable - no flashing effects but the playfield lit correctly once the burnt connector was replaced. Fixed that soldering and the playfield lights correctly and has flashing effects.

    The Pioneer I've got had a range of issues with the tilt circuits. I'm not sure if it was tilting incorrectly for the previous owner or if they just didn't like tilt being enabled so it was disabled... by removing the tilt bob. Refitted that, still didn't tilt. Bit of hunting and they'd also bent the leaves on the tilt relay switches so it doesn't latch on and tilt the machine. Adjusted those and it now tilts, sometimes. I need to do more hunting.

    #3 2 years ago

    I find usually the thing you described in this hobby as being something suspect which ends up not being the solution but would have caused major trouble down the line anyways - being wrong basically, but saving yourself work in the future on something you had no clue was wrong in the first place and sometimes chalking it up to "also contributed". That being said, there are a lot of things in this hobby that would genuinely do what you say. Especially on flippers - the parts are shot but some idiot also oiled everything and made it even worse. You can fix either and it would get a little better, but in order to really make it perfect you HAVE to fix both.

    And other times, it's just impossible to know. I usually just say "Well if it didn't fix it, it definitely needed it anyways" (especially when getting paid and using process of elimination but also trying not to look like you've got it wrong), and it's very true in this and the arcade hobby.

    I service arcade monitors and if you're pulling it apart and haven't done it you basically should always replace ALL of the old capacitors while it's out which is basically used as a "baseline". It's useless to try and fix a problem without that steady base, and it ends up fixing 80% of the problems you can find completely anyways right away. And even if it didn't fix the problem, it likely fixed contributing factors to it that could have made it worse, or at least, they would have become a major problem shortly anyways so it definitely needed it.

    Very many "options" in this hobby for what a problem could be, many with multiple answers that all need to be addressed and fixed for a very proper and long-lasting solution.

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