I remember all of this like it was yesterday as I had a WOZ deposit with you at the time. I did do the vote for you around the same time. Can't believe a year has come and gone already.

I would be in on AIW, I have faith in Jpop, and I don't think the price is unreasonable for a limited game.

However, I am already half a schmuck for RAZA, I don't want to be a two time loser if they don't come to fruition.

Not that I think John is running a con game, he is truly working on it, but I have no idea how his money is secured or insured. I mean what happens if he gets hacked and his money (edit: our money) is stolen, that's not his problem, I mean he could just as easily declare bankruptcy and where would I be with my deposits and payments?

I spoke briefly with John and he really didn't say anything that made the situation any clearer than what we have said already. He said the deposit for AIW is to determine that there is a demand and also to determine there are serious buyers.

In other words, if he just asked for $250 deposit which is nothing, it would be easy to get hundreds of people on but maybe not serious buyers.

It did not sound as if the money from AIW is being used directly for MG or RAZA, but indirectly he said he was building a company not just a game, so he needs money from whatever sources to move things along.

I asked John to come on here to set the record straight or clear the air. He declined said he likes to stay out of the fray. I can see his point as we know how that sometimes doesn't work out, but IMO in this instance he could come out and say how he is bonded or where the deposit money is held or being used.

I'm a RAZA buyer.. I know our money is not bonded or secured or anything else, it has been spent making the game, and developing all the hardware he is using from scratch. I can only hope the last big payment left is enough to cover the BOM to produce it.

I don't like to hear that there are refunds owed that are having difficulty being paid back. The secrecy of the project probably means there isn't a huge lineup of people waiting to get in anymore. If John posted the playfield artwork from his blog yesterday publicly it would turn around interest immediately, but he likes working in secret.

So speculation being AIW deposits are being spent on MG as well as RAZA?

(Runs to go check blog)

If this is true, I'm guessing that it means that JPop no longer has a list of people waiting for a spot to open up. Unless there was a change in policy, the time period in which you could get a full refund has passed a long time ago. Now if you want a refund, it is given only after the spot has been sold to someone else.

That's my understanding. If anyone who is still in on RAZA knows different please share.

When did prepayments for Magic Girl start? How many years ago? Then RAZA then AIW and still no one has seen even one machine go out the door!? I jumped in for RAZA and jumped out the next day and got a refund. These games could end up incredible but I do not believe they will see the light of day until I see it! Also someone said these games will be a game changer. At the low numbers being produced who will really get to see or play them!? Rich folks at home and that's ok! Just not for me and not for my money. I like to sleep at night and I coudn't if I have all that money tied up in what is so far vapor!

Tom

I seriously doubt that.

Everyone already knows that the artwork will be superb. That's never been the issue.

WOWZA! The new playfield art is wild. I was concerned that there was nothing but churn over the cabinet artwork going on, but from his post yesterday, they are heavily into working through the playfield, both art-wise and the physical elements.

Yesterday's post, both in what he showed and in what he hinted he'll be showing soon, was the most encouraging update I have seen from him in this project.

this is all very odd. I thought I was on a waiting list for this game. If there was a waiting list of potential new buyers why wouldn't anyone's deposit be returned and new buyers contacted?

Possibly an "Organization" issue. Artist..

Pretty lame excuse especially considering the hardship that Buddy is facing.

Just guessing. Its not fact.

My understanding is that the accounting/bookkeeping has not been very organized.

Let's play devil's advocate here.

If this is true then sounds like refund time has passed.

Also, it really should not be Jpop's responsibility to refund passed any date based on anyone's financial situation. If you are buying a pin this expensive, but need the money for other things later, then perhaps it never should have been bought anyways? Nothing personal here, just saying in general. Pins should be bought with money that can be "lost" imo. That being said, if a refund really is due I do hope it comes asap for anyone that needs it!! And an email should be replied to asap as well, kinda a bummer. I see Jpop post on FB all the time, maybe contact him there in case that email is no good?

I was on a wait list for over 6 months to get my spot for RAZA, it almost seems like once or twice a year John checks his lists and moves people in and out. I think John needs to hire someone to deal with that end of things as he is all about designing and building games. The guy is a workaholic/mad pinball scientist

There was also a completion timeline. That too has passed.

Play this out. If the game was built, Buddy could have sold it to get the money he need. By JPop dragging this out indefinitely, Buddy's money is frozen. If John cant get the game to market, he owes a full refund to them. It was he who blew the schedule.

I find it comical when people get preachy about what people should do with their money. Shit happens. Buddy was right as rain, then an unforeseen circumstance happened. He sold many a prized pins to meet his financial obligations. How much "oh shit money" does one need socked away to justify "lost" money.

I love JPop. I have an autographed picture of him and myself hanging on the wall. Great dude. Just because I don't think this is playing out right, doesnt mean i dont think he's great for pinball; because he is.

I was in the WOZ boat for almost three years before having it show up in my driveway. Some days were great, others were not. A fair exit needs to be there if deadlines are not met IMHO.

I, for one, am done with these types of pre-orders. I just don't have the constitution for it.

I wish everyone who has one of these games on order the best of luck. I can't wait to play one.

If he's blown all the money he can just increase the number of magic girl games to double the 21 spots originally. That should help generate enough cash to make some physical games if he ever gets there

Doesn't he risk the original MG owners complaining about their game not being as rare/special?

Honestly, he should open it up and build as many as people are willing to buy. If he's going through all that trouble designing it, coding it, drawing it, etc...it's just a shame for only 20 people to ever see enjoy it. Even if he did 100 or 200, it would still be incredibly rare.

HE does.

And originally there were only 13 so it has already been increased.

I remember looking at those 13 spots and only 5 had gone and I was tempted until sanity bit me hard!

He still needs somebody to actually *build* these pins. Who is going to be doing that? Is JPop going to build each one of them by hand himself? Or will he have a helper or two?

I doubt that these will be coming off of an assembly line.

If it's taken JJP as long as it has to get WoZ out, I can only imagine how long this will take.

To think that this is still only in the design phase is pretty amazing. You guys are truly in for a long ass ride.

J-Pop should be realistic and contract out the factory production of his machines to Jersey Jack. I mean why not? They have the means to do it. Give them a cut and it should make things a lot easier for him. And he should definitely make more machines if there is demand. Just make the initial first run premium models so the original buyers feel special.

They do?

Last I checked, people are still waiting for their WOZ LE's. If they don't have the capacity to get those out in a timely manner, how can they take on assembly of someone else's game?

Couldn't disagree more. These were sold as a limited edition. Calling it a "premium" doesn't change anything. It would be a huge slap in the face to the people who pre-ordered.

Not trying to be an elitist here but I agree with Rob on this... I wouldn't sit around with cash laid out for 3 years if I knew RAZA was gunna be an unlimited production game that I could just pick up anytime down the road.

Yep, nobody would bother pre-ordering another JPOP game at that point.

Agreed on the first point. On the second point, I know you wil lget a lot of favor on it, but I am absolutely not telling or preaching to anyone about what to do with their money. And I didn't mention any names since my goal was not to call anyone out. My point is that if you spend your money on luxury items, but then need that money back and can't get it super fast that should be expected. It is financially wise to stock a good pile of money prior to buying things that technically could lose full value. What if the game was bought for 12k and became worth 3k a few months later? This person surely couldn't take a 9k hit with all the bills due. That possibility should be considered, thats all im saying.

Hey, you stole my words from yesterday. My guess will be hobbyists/volunteers like you and me, working 2-3 days a week or over the weekend kind of arrangement?

Thanks for your support I sure wish I had won as that 69k invoice hurts to repay it back cost almost 110k but its pure expense with the dolar buyout option. No other good choice other than close.

Until the big boys close their doors, boutique pinballs will always be just another quick hustle.

Everybody is trying to get a slice of the pie while the going is good.

There are so many better options to spend your money on, than waiting years for one being built in mom's garage.

I wish them success, but most of the ones so far just look like something made for a talent contest.

Compare Nemo's artwork with Mustang's and tell me who is playing in the Amateur league...

Compare Wrath of Olympus game play videos with The Hobbit...

JPop has a prototype game at mgc. Should shed some light on what he is capable of doing.

The European stuff looks very good. I will agree with you there.

I really hate the way this has come down with JPop about getting my refund as I have all of his pins and still want future ones but its a cash crunch issue and bad timing. I sure wished I had won the contest please see this as it will explain it so much better than my long post.

#t=12 I cried seeing those people reactions and wished it was me, but I was happy for them and will buy a Honda for sure. Honda raised enough money in the contest that we were given another week to get votes but again it was a no and our hope got crushed as we lost again. This time it was all over the news as the other drive in in TN won about 90 miles away. The one station did a very nice story and the other one said we would have to beg the community to stay open. I believe things work out for a reason and I just have to believe those people needed it more. Left with no time and no way to borrow I tried to do the reward donation drawing but that was an odd experience. Still other drive ins are still raffling prizes, even guns but I will not do it again. It was also quite an experience pulling out numbered Christmas balls at 3am in Chicago during the LTG show. I could not believe who won but he purchased a ticket in advance like everyone else.

Pinsider Skins said something like this, not sure of the exact quote but we all live close to the edge in life. Let me try to explain, in being involved in business you have to take risks to get the rewards. After paying for Magic Girl things have gone so wrong in so many unusual ways, maybe making up for suck a good run. A little bit of a rant but again I cant help the unexpected snow fall this year causing my roof to fall in at the drive in. I talked with my insurance agent and its considered and act of god or some other complicated wording that means we as an insurance company are not paying a claim as it could be faulty workmanship if not an act of god or terrorism. I do not think so as the building been there since 1952.

I little about myself, I have had a great run with business and love the drive in. I have only owned it since 2005 but I work the ticket box almost every night. Its open 8 months out of the year and its my dream job, as I have visited here since a child, Many memories of watching movies eating food and even working as a kid counting money out of a Breakout in 1981 or playing Space Invaders pin with my dad its just a great place. Its a fun business and that in itself is a reward. The decline of coin op games really hasnt hurt me and in fact I was caught off guard some with how well it started to do after us operators didnt have to keep buying 14k dollar twin drivers. I was making more net income from operations than ever and yes I do put it in the bank, you have to in order to purchase equipment and NOT go to jail. In 2011 we knew film was coming to an end but nobody saw it ending in 2013 as the govt caused it thru the Kodak bankruptcy and NOT allowing them to stay in the film business. I have run my own business on my own since 1988 and greatly expanded it during the second glory days of the arcade boom in the 1990 to 1997 time period. Mortal Kombat, Killer Instinct and Daytona USA were making real money like the 1980's but were also costing real money. A Daytona twin was just over 18k but they often made 600 to 1000 every week.

I had a string of just way to much bad luck with two funerals (no insurance and no family members helping to pay for my wife's mother. Its such a sadness I wish upon nobody. She had purchased Colonial Penn Insurance but died 2 months before it vested. My CPA of 20 years dying and all his work was lost so I could not pay my taxes on time and it took 6 months for the new CPA team to do all the work as coin machines are not easily accountable. The IRS was ready to pounce and it got bad real quick. In such a short turn you can be on top then sitting in a office with a IRS agent saying death is not acceptable excuse. Yes I paid some but had no idea what I might owe. I never have made the kind of money that I made in '12 and '13 and thats because of selling many pins, over a 100 in the last 3 years, thanks in large part to popularity of Pinside. Its get more complicated on the IRS front with the JJP distributorship of taking in money for a machine thats not delivered year after year, the IRS doesn't believe me but its true. I love the coin machine business and its a great way to make a living seeing people every week and build relationships. I sold pins to many repeat people here and I also have purchased several and each time I went I have an experience. I thank each and everyone that put trust in me and if I am asked about JPop as I have been I think its only fair I tell the truth.

The drive in is a different business and in all truthfulness I should not have opened it back up. If you look at it in black and white numbers the cost is just too great as its over 100k now with roof, getting Internet to remote location but I did not have to pay 32k to bring 3phase power here. I do it again because i like it and seeing kids who would never be able to go to movies get a chance to come here, smokers love it here as they can smoke. Lovers also seem to like as i pick up 3 or 4 condoms every busy weekend but the families with blankets are far more than those few teenagers or swingers who come. We cant take the money with us and my wife and I talked it over. the only fear is a great recession or the new 2 dollar increased price of 8 dollars adult and 4 dollar kids keep people away from seeing a double feature and sometimes even a triple feature.

The banks were loaning money much better in 2006 than say 2011 and I had to struggle to refinance last Summer as all banks are super conservative with property values. I could only borrow 1.9 million with a decent rate. I wanted more but was tapped out with now nothing extra. I know I lost some customers who were scared I would take their money but I would never do that as anybody has gotten a full refund from me. Only one lost a small deposit as a reseller sold a WOZ that did not go thru but he said he explained all but 500 of the 7300 was refundable. I even like to have people make the check out to JJP if it makes them fell better. Its no biggie as I have to pay Jack for the machines anyway.

I just wanted to clear the air and show I am ok, the other parts of my family business ventures are ok. I made the transition at the indoor cinema for all 9 screens and those also cost around 75k per screen so you can see how it adds up. I have shared some personal information as I have nothing to hide and want to make sure everyone knows the truth. Some like me and some do not its life but if you want someone who has passion for coin op and pinball then I ask for your consideration on your next purchase. If you are out driving this come see me we can have a great talk between the double feature!

I hope to see many of you all soon, at an auction, ATl show, the drive in here or on a pinball run!

Thanks for your time in reading this. JPop has sent me an email saying my next refund is in the mail. I will send it straight to the IRS

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I cant get the PDF to attach and its late but I will PM the info. I do not mind at all as many are scared and I want you to trust me.

Buddy
[email protected]

Don't sweat it Buddy. You're one of the good ones.

Kinda gross on the condom thing though. lol

So, looking at the Kiss machine at MGC (which is still a mystery to me)... Is the LCD under the glass, ala CV, the big game changer that people keep referring to? It seemed pretty clear JPop was doing that based on the Chicago Expo presentation.

You've always been a standup guy with me Buddy and everybody else I know. We will talk more at June's Expo!

I'm glad that you and JPop worked things out.

Too bad it was only after you voiced it here.

I think it is awesome that Buddy is going to great expense to keep his drive-in theater up and running. I love drive-ins and they are a rare thing in this day and age and they should be preserved and enjoyed by current and future generations. I hope this ends your streak of bad luck and things turn around for you Buddy!

I'm not really sure why it's such a "game changer". It seems to me that it's so large that you're kinda jammed with what you can put in front of it. Just for example, try sticking that screen in the new Star Trek. If you hate ramps it seems pretty sweet, but otherwise I'd have to see how involved in the gameplay it really was in exchange for the tradeoff.

I think the screen is going to be very involved in the gameplay.

http://www.google.com/patents/US20130147111

That was my first thought, as well. When I first looked at KISS, I thought it was unusual that there were no ramps and I quickly realized why. Even if you did work ramps in somewhere, it seems really limiting. I was honestly curious if this was the 'game changer' people were referring to or if it's something else...

Looking at this Ustream video of the 3 room rotating lab on Zombie Advertureland, makes me wish I was on the waiting list.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/25967283

Pretty sure that was an early "test" feature and won't be in the game.

JPOP posted a RAZA update yesterday showing some ramps ect... All I can say is that it is mind bending!

It must be fun to be in that ride!

what was the price for RAZA , the deposit and can anyone confirm you need t

You know what would be the bomb? Having a ramp shot where the ball goes halfway on it's own power, then a magnet throws it the correct direction to finish the shot every time. But it can't just be a catch-and-release down deal. Or like a single-coil LIM type deal along a very steep ramp.

to buy a "spot" to get in on this game? AIW is still available according to the site but a third is kinda nuts to put in cash for until we see some units come out.

I sent Jpop $1895 on AIW last month. Think he had a flurry upon everybody seeing Kiss artwork. RAZA is amazing