(Topic ID: 265637)

How Much Deceit Do You Accept Before Ruinin' Seller's 100% Feedback?

By BallyTim

3 years ago


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    There are 59 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 3 years ago

    Recently purchased a fairly rare old Bally SS game for $4500. Lots of crap work and lazy workmanship. Pics that cropped several things out.

    We met a little more than halfway on my part travel wise, so I didn't get to see or play it. Keep in mind, he didn't meet me halfway as a favor. He was pickin' up another machine. I was feelin' comfortable with the arrangement, as we had corresponded a bit on it and he seemed like a stand-up guy.

    I guess it all depends on what you expect from a seller, but for $4500 for a 40+ year old pin, I expect a nice clean pin, fully shopped and no hidden surprises.

    I'm attaching some photos to share and l'd just like to hear your opinions. Maybe I'm expecting too much. The pin is worth the $4500 if it didn't have these issues. And while these issues are not a big deal individually, other than the backglass, they are a big deal as a whole.

    I hate to leave negative feedback, as I'm not a dick. But I also despise being taken advantage of.

    Let me explain the photos, and some things I could get pics of. All of the backglass peeling is not shown in his photos. Said he didn't see it. Tell me if YOU would miss that. The levelers are so beat and rusty you can't even turn them. Rubbers replaced on top of filthy flipper bats. Pop-bumper caps burnt.

    Instead of a lock, has an old ugly kitchen cabinet knob. I mentioned this and his explanation was that he thought I'd get a kick out of it. NOT for $4500 do I get a kick out of it. All lampsockets extremely corroded. All playfield screws completely corroded to the point that the dust is falling off of them. And these were put back in on top of new posts.

    Now, I would consider this pin absolutely unshopped. Dusting playfield off and putting on new rubbers is NOT shopped. OH, and he did replace the BR board and repin 2 connectors. So it isn't completely unshopped. But do the little things. Take pride in your work. And DON'T omit things!
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    #2 3 years ago

    Well it's pretty standard to start the bashing here, so you've started correctly.
    NExt step is everyone piles on and get worked up into a thick lather of anger and shame. You'll be riding high for a day or two, maybe less with stayathome, but then he'll come back and post some stuff that makes you look like an over anal weirdo.

    Luckily we're all bored and looking forward to it.

    A fucking kitchen knob?!!?

    #3 3 years ago

    Well if you met in person you had a chance to inspect the game and decide if the price was right for that game. Could have always changed your mind or offered less. So I don’t really understand your gripe. Now if it was described differently to you and you bought it sight unseen and it was shipped to you, I could understand. Feeling buyers remorse?

    #4 3 years ago
    Quoted from BallyTim:

    Recently purchased a fairly rare old Bally SS game for $4500. Lots of crap work and lazy workmanship. Pics that cropped several things out.
    We met a little more than halfway on my part travel wise, so I didn't get to see or play it. Keep in mind, he didn't meet me halfway as a favor. He was pickin' up another machine. I was feelin' comfortable with the arrangement, as we had corresponded a bit on it and he seemed like a stand-up guy.
    I guess it all depends on what you expect from a seller, but for $4500 for a 40+ year old pin, I expect a nice clean pin, fully shopped and no hidden surprises.
    I'm attaching some photos to share and l'd just like to hear your opinions. Maybe I'm expecting too much. The pin is worth the $4500 if it didn't have these issues. And while these issues are not a big deal individually, other than the backglass, they are a big deal as a whole.
    I hate to leave negative feedback, as I'm not a dick. But I also despise being taken advantage of.
    Let me explain the photos, and some things I could get pics of. All of the backglass peeling is not shown in his photos. Said he didn't see it. Tell me if YOU would miss that. The levelers are so beat and rusty you can't even turn them. Rubbers replaced on top of filthy flipper bats. Pop-bumper caps burnt.
    Instead of a lock, has an old ugly kitchen cabinet knob. I mentioned this and his explanation was that he thought I'd get a kick out of it. NOT for $4500 do I get a kick out of it. All lampsockets extremely corroded. All playfield screws completely corroded to the point that the dust is falling off of them. And these were put back in on top of new posts.
    Now, I would consider this pin absolutely unshopped. Dusting playfield off and putting on new rubbers is NOT shopped. OH, and he did replace the BR board and repin 2 connectors. So it isn't completely unshopped. But do the little things. Take pride in your work.
    [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

    Unfortunately, you've just be choggard'd

    #5 3 years ago
    Quoted from djblouw:

    Unfortunately, you've just be choggard'd

    This x 2

    You may want us to see the pics of what you saw before the deal..hard to go by just after pics

    #6 3 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Well it's pretty standard to start the bashing here, so you've started correctly.
    NExt step is everyone piles on and get worked up into a thick lather of anger and shame. You'll be riding high for a day or two, maybe less with stayathome, but then he'll come back and post some stuff that makes you look like an over anal weirdo.
    Luckily we're all bored and looking forward to it.
    A fucking kitchen knob?!!?

    Oh, I'm expectin' it. Comes with any hobby. Didn't mention name as to hopefully curb some of it.

    #7 3 years ago

    So the knob wasnt in the pics? Seems pretty standard to get a coin door pic. Was there a lock in the pic if so? Did the seller remove said lock as it was keyed same to his collection? Or was lock missing in pic? If the lock was missing in the pic i see no problem. Just an attempt at humor. If lock was present and knob placed thats kinda douchie without a “sorry i need the lock” explanation. If he deliberately omitted the lock from pic, thats chicanery. If you never asked to see coin door pic thats on you.
    Still its a five dollar lock, i get your anger, but its an easy fix, dont blow it up itll only hurt yourself.
    The rest is legit, but not quite to the level of destroying a 100. Just dont deal with them anymore, have fun with your game and forget about it. After you put new glides on

    #8 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    Well if you met in person you had a chance to inspect the game and decide if the price was right for that game. Could have always changed your mind or offered less. So I don’t really understand your gripe. Now if it was described differently to you and you bought it sight unseen I could understand. Feeling buyers remorse?

    No remorse. Gripe? Read post again.

    #9 3 years ago
    Quoted from BallyTim:

    Instead of a lock, has an old ugly kitchen cabinet knob. I mentioned this and his explanation was that he thought I'd get a kick out of it.

    Well, I'm getting a kick out of it! He should have at least sprung for a new, pretty knob!

    #10 3 years ago
    Quoted from BallyTim:

    No remorse. Gripe? Read post again.

    OK I reread it. Seems to read as you have a gripe on the condition of the game for the price. Again you saw the machine in person before purchase. You could inspect the game before you handed over payment.

    #11 3 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Well it's pretty standard to start the bashing here, so you've started correctly.
    NExt step is everyone piles on and get worked up into a thick lather of anger and shame. You'll be riding high for a day or two, maybe less with stayathome, but then he'll come back and post some stuff that makes you look like an over anal weirdo.
    Luckily we're all bored and looking forward to it.
    A fucking kitchen knob?!!?

    perfect summary.

    #12 3 years ago

    Shopped means different things to different people. when i was in the business in the late 80s- 90s, we always bought pins from 3 other operators in town. Shopped to 1 of them meant slings and flipper rubbers were changed, the coin mechs were checked, and the center of the playfield was wiped down. 1 out of4 had the shooter tip changed, probably because it was so beat up the tip fell off. Strictly speaking from my experiance, Shopped never meant new flipper bats, new leg levelers or new lamp sockets. Maybe could have done a better job of cleaning up the bats. Im with you on the backglass.

    10
    #13 3 years ago

    I'd never meet someone halfway. I'd rather do the entire drive. That way if I walk away, they are not out anything. It also tends to bring out just a bit more info. And the worst that happens is, I drive home with an empty car. When that happens I will usually go do something in that area that I wouldn't have done if I wasn't there. Try a local bar, look for pin places, see a show, go to an amusement park nearby. Just to feel like I got my moneys worth out of the gas.

    #14 3 years ago
    Quoted from ShinyBall:

    You may want us to see the pics of what you saw before the deal..hard to go by just after pics

    ^that, then I would contact the seller NOW, mention all the things that were not disclosed ahead of time and see if they offer you some sort of concession refund.
    If not, out the choggard!

    #15 3 years ago

    Very little. U have to be 100% to maintain that status. R u satisfied 100%? if not then fuck them.

    #16 3 years ago

    I dont know how he would miss that backglass damage but at the same time if I was picking up halfway I'd make sure I had a pic that shows the whole backglass.

    #17 3 years ago

    Anyone else having a hard time figuring out what game it is?

    #18 3 years ago
    Quoted from PismoArcade:

    Anyone else having a hard time figuring out what game it is?

    https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/voltan-escapes-cosmic-doom/gallery

    Easy.

    13
    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from PismoArcade:

    Anyone else having a hard time figuring out what game it is?

    Once you know what you're looking at, you can see the kitchen knob.

    And for real, he got choggard'd. By the actual choggard.

    #20 3 years ago
    Quoted from djblouw:

    Archived after 36 days
    590 views

    Sold (amount unknown)

    Contributed to Pinside

    Machine - For Trade

    Voltan Escapes Cosmic Doom - Reduced Price $5K

    Archived

    Partially restored (almost original) “Up for sale is my Voltan, probably never find another. Game was shopped recently for sale. Open to trades or serious offers. Game is in original condition and it’s in very nice s...”

    2020-02-01

    Richfield , MI

    Trade

    pacman11

    Once you know what you're looking at, you can see the kitchen knob.
    And for real, he got choggard'd. By the actual choggard.

    If that is the actual ad then I can see all the issues in the pictures. Looks like a players condition game.

    #21 3 years ago

    Your 1st step is to reach out to the seller and express your dissatisfaction to see how you can reach an agreement. Give the seller a chance to be the stand up guy you thought him to be. This should have been your 1st step before putting this post out there.

    Pending what the seller says then you can then decide how you want to react and if negative feedback is appropriate.

    If the seller isn't reasonable then we all should know and appropriate feedback is fair and warranted.

    #22 3 years ago

    From ad "Blackglass is very nice too" lol. Really??

    So the back glass isn't nice except where its black?

    #23 3 years ago
    Quoted from Mitch:If that is the actual ad then I can see all the issues in the pictures. Looks like a players condition game.

    Does look like some carefully taken pictures. Some stuff is petty like the levelers and knob but I'd be bent about the backglass. Its advertised as nice, that is on its way out.

    #24 3 years ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Does look like some carefully taken pictures. Some stuff is petty like the levelers and knob but I'd be bent about the backglass. Its advertised as nice, that is on its way out.

    Oh for sure the backglass is the worst part if you zoom in on the original pics you can kinda see it. A good seller should have mentioned it.

    #25 3 years ago
    Quoted from Mitch:

    Oh for sure the backglass is the worst part if you zoom in on the original pics you can kinda see it. A good seller should have mentioned it.

    I would have not described that as nice, starting to delaminate at the typical bottom trim location would have been my call. Lot of Bally's do that.

    #26 3 years ago

    Had a Pinsider pull some of the same kind of thing when selling me a "perfect" Rollergames. Took pictures to leave out the broken and cracked $400 out of stock main ramp and "The Wall" assembly. I tried for months to give him the chance to make it right and after continuing to promise to do so and then ghosting me, I posted his first negative feedback. I hated to do it but he didn't seem to care to make it right after promising to do so and even standing me up a couple times to meet and take it back. I don't feel bad about it. The ball was totally in his court and he didn't give a crap about it or me...so yeah.

    10
    #27 3 years ago
    Quoted from BallyTim:

    We met a little more than halfway on my part travel wise, so I didn't get to see or play it.

    Strikes one two and three. If I’m paying 4500 for a SS game you bet you’re ass I’m looking over it CLOSELY before laying the money down.

    Also just saw the pics from the guys ad. The Backglass damage is clearly visible. As is all the other damage (plenty of it). Why is this game so popular? Haha

    #28 3 years ago

    The kitchen knob is a great conversation piece. Maybe the seller meant *we* would get a kick out of it. (I seem to recall there was a kitchen faucet knob on a shooter handle on some other game...)

    On the topic of deceit and ruining feedback:

    Was the seller “deceitful” ? I’d say no, especially if you picked it up in person. It seems that everything that is being shown either appears in the original photos or could have been seen in person at the pickup point. If it was wrapped in a cocoon, then I’d have asked to look at it. Doesn’t sound like that was the case. $4500 for a 40 year old game isn’t “oh, what the heck, I’ll take it” money. Now if he sold it for $450 and you posted here, we’d ask are you serious with that.

    Why ruin his feedback? He didn’t make you buy the game. It doesn’t sound like a bait and switch or a pig in a poke. There had to be *some effort* to load a pinball machine into your vehicle and hand over $4500. It could not have been a quick sleight of hand.

    In short, you might not like what you bought, but it doesn’t seem he “deceived” you, “took advantage of you”, or deserves to have his feedback ruined even if some disagree with the ad description or photograph angles.

    (And no, I have no idea who either person is)

    That being said, most of the stuff can be spruced up. New legs, levelers, new kitchen knob from restoration hardware, some clean white rubber and the game will look great and you will enjoy it.

    Life is short; let this issue go, and enjoy your game.

    #29 3 years ago

    I've been collecting Bally games for 20 years. Have probably owned close to 100 of them. This is a tough call because of the backglass and it was described as partially restored. And the partially restored can mean anything to anyone. But it also says original condition.
    In my honest opinion you are being a little nit-picky on some of the stuff and you can see in the picture of the backglass that it's flaking. Not the greatest picture but it's visible. I would have asked for better pictures as soon as I saw the one posted. Also if paying that much for a game I would have asked for another dozen or so pictures.
    If it was a different game then yes I would have expected better. You are pretty much paying for the title not the condition.
    My outcome would be
    1: Seller should have pointed out the backglass had flaking.
    2: You should have asked for many more pictures.
    So I see both parties at fault.
    PS. Man I would love to own that game!!!!

    #30 3 years ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    My outcome would be
    1: Seller should have pointed out the backglass had flaking.
    2: You should have asked for many more pictures.
    So I see both parties at fault.
    PS. Man I would love to own that game!!!!

    I'll second all that

    #31 3 years ago

    The leg levelers are cheap and so is the lock. While annoying those are easy fixes and should have been obvious on the pickup. From the pictures on the add it says it looks nice but the pictures show that damage on the bottom. The seller probably should have been more forthcoming about that condition of that.

    #32 3 years ago

    Why is a known scammer permitted to stay on Pinside? I feel Pinside should pay the buyer lost $'s due to it's negligence.

    Quoted from djblouw:

    Archived after 36 days
    590 views

    Sold (amount unknown)

    Contributed to Pinside

    Machine - For Trade

    Voltan Escapes Cosmic Doom - Reduced Price $5K

    Archived

    Partially restored (almost original) “Up for sale is my Voltan, probably never find another. Game was shopped recently for sale. Open to trades or serious offers. Game is in original condition and it’s in very nice s...”

    2020-02-01

    Richfield , MI

    Trade

    pacman11

    Once you know what you're looking at, you can see the kitchen knob.
    And for real, he got choggard'd. By the actual choggard.

    #33 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballcorpse:

    Most of the stuff can be spruced up: new legs, levelers, new kitchen knob.

    Your suggesting to replace that old knob with a new kitchen knob?
    That does it, pinballcorpse - you're dead to me!

    #34 3 years ago
    Quoted from GravitaR:

    Why is a known scammer permitted to stay on Pinside? I feel Pinside should pay the buyer lost $'s due to it's negligence.

    Is that the Choggard that I've read so much about on the Michigan thread? Never heard anything positive in that regard. I expect that the thread only represents part of it. I'm in Michigan as well and I wish someone would fill me in on the rest....

    #35 3 years ago
    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    Is that the Choggard that I've read so much about on the Michigan thread? Never heard anything positive in that regard. I expect that the thread only represents part of it. I'm in Michigan as well and I wish someone would fill me in on the rest....

    I'm having a hard time finding the original thread about him although there have been several.

    #36 3 years ago

    Like someone else said, the levelers and lock are a nothingburger, unless they are unobtainium and unique to this particular title, which of course they aren't. Unless you're buying a restored game, it's almost guaranteed that you'll need to replace the levelers and lock, and that's only seven bucks. The backglass is another story. You don't buy Voltan for the gameplay, you buy it for the artwork, and the backglass is the centerpiece of the artwork. No way in hell he didn't see every last crack and peel on it.

    Having said that....you can see in the pics that there's something funky going on at the bottom of the backglass. Why didn't you inquire about it or ask for more pics?

    #37 3 years ago
    Quoted from PismoArcade:

    I'm having a hard time finding the original thread about him although there have been several.

    Luckily everyone that I've dealt with in Michigan has been excellent. Got an Elektra from someone on the west side of the state that was accurately represented and have done repairs for several local people to help them out and they were awesome. Bummer that issues like this come up.

    #38 3 years ago
    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    Is that the Choggard that I've read so much about on the Michigan thread? Never heard anything positive in that regard. I expect that the thread only represents part of it. I'm in Michigan as well and I wish someone would fill me in on the rest....

    You can see the whole slow motion train wreck in the old Michigan for sale thread.
    There's a reason a new thread was started.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whats-fs-in-michigan-right-now-anyone-got-anything-interesting-out-there/page/9

    #39 3 years ago
    Quoted from RCA1:

    You can see the whole slow motion train wreck in the old Michigan for sale thread.
    There's a reason a new thread was srarted.
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/whats-fs-in-michigan-right-now-anyone-got-anything-interesting-out-there/page/9

    I'll check it out. If I'm not mistaken You were the one I got that Elektra from and the game was accurately represented and I thought it was a fair smooth transaction. You're one of the good guys. Once I worked out some gremlins from moving the game it has been solid and probably has over 1000 plays on it. Been using it to test and verify other boards after repairs. Still on my to-do to swap the upper playfield and cosmetic touches but it gets used a lot.

    #40 3 years ago

    I'm surprised you paid $4500 for a Voltan without getting very detailed pics or looking it over in person. When I was trying to sell my Voltan a month ago everyone (including yourself) was saying "It's only worth 3500 at most". Yet it's the cleanest voltan I've seen aside from the HEP restored one. What little issues it has can easily be fixed.

    Sadly once the world is done being at a halt I'm not even sure if I'll even be able to get 3500 for it. Demand for luxury items is probably going to be very very low. May just have to fold it up and store it somewhere.

    #41 3 years ago

    I’m interested in your Voltan. PM me.

    11
    #43 3 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Why is this game so popular?

    GoAhead (resized).jpgGoAhead (resized).jpg
    #44 3 years ago

    That reminds me. This game has the wrong spinner. Haha

    #45 3 years ago
    Quoted from djblouw:

    Voltan Escapes Cosmic Doom - Reduced Price $5K

    Thought I've heard of all the bally games.... is this one any good?

    #46 3 years ago

    You can clearly see in the FS ad pic the bottom of the backglass is hosed. Not sure why you didn't ask for more pics or more info... hard to get upset with a seller when the pics reveal all the flaws. Game was described in original condition. Levelers and lock are irrelevant on a 4.5K game, I bet seller would have sent you $20 to buy replacements if you'd have asked before posting this thread...

    #47 3 years ago

    Seller won't send shit but maybe a thankyou card.

    #48 3 years ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    Thought I've heard of all the bally games.... is this one any good?

    The art is really cool. Gameplay is "meh."

    #49 3 years ago
    Quoted from hocuslocus:

    Thought I've heard of all the bally games.... is this one any good?

    Awesome artwork, maybe even better then Captain Fantastic if you really look at the details of it all in the backglass. Game play is a huge let down and the reason I didn't keep mine. Same could be said for Lost World and Nitro Ground Shaker. Your better off buying a backglass and hanging it on the wall. JMHO.

    John

    #50 3 years ago
    Quoted from Dayhuff:

    Awesome artwork, maybe even better then Captain Fantastic if you really look at the details of it all in the backglass. Game play is a huge let down and the reason I didn't keep mine. Same could be said for Lost World and Nitro Ground Shaker. Your better off buying a backglass and hanging it on the wall. JMHO.
    John

    Exactly, there is a reason Voltan was a low production game--poor earnings and lousy gameplay. Just a handful of stand up targets and Bally's requisite three pop bumpers and two spinners. Art is the only redeeming feature.

    There are 59 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

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