Star Trek (Pro)
Stern, 2013Bump for anyone thinking about doing some work on their Star Trek Pro over the weekend. If you lift the playfield, would you mind measuring the vertical height while you're at it? It would be much appreciated. 
Thanks. But unless I am missing something, that doesn't give the height of the playfield when you lift it up. Just the height of the machine (just under 76"). I need to know if the playfield is going to clear the ceiling when I lift it to do maintenance.
Quoted from PinFever:75 and a half inch from floor to top of my Metallica Pin and spiderman
Thanks. But when you lift the playfield, I assume it goes higher than the back of the backbox, is that right? That's the height I'm looking for.
I just sent an email to Stern.
Quoted from 1967Firebird:I have an Avengers Pro and 80 inches at the highest spot when the playfield is up.
Thanks for the answer, even though it makes me sad. Curse my one inch too low ceilings! 
Quoted from PinFever:75 and a half inch from floor to top of my Metallica Pin and spiderman
I am surprised Avengers is 4 inches more. I did not know machines had that much of a difference.
Quoted from Nokoro:Thanks for the answer, even though it makes me sad. Curse my one inch too low ceilings!
That's my problem too. These old houses were simply not meant for the evolution of man.
You could get a jack and lifter attachment or a lift table and then just remove the legs and lower the jack down. That would put the machine about 4 inches lower than its legs on height.
Edit: If there is any concern about stability while the machine is sitting on the jack/lift table with the playfield up you could also build a little stand out of 2x4s that the game could rest on while working. That stand could be your shorter legs so to speak.
Quoted from Nokoro:Here's a thought: Does anyone manufacture slightly shorter legs for exactly this purpose?
I've never seen them but that doesn't mean they don't exist. How much of a drop are the ceiling tiles? Are you planning on getting more games? If I were in your position I would just remove the tiles over the game permanently and paint the joists flat black. With it being flat black above the game there is no white ceiling reflection on the game glass which is real nice. The ceiling above my games is this way and works great.
Quoted from MustangPaul:I've never seen them but that doesn't mean they don't exist. How much of a drop are the ceiling tiles? Are you planning on getting more games? If I were in your position I would just remove the tiles over the game permanently and paint the joists flat black. With it being flat black above the game there is no white ceiling reflection on the game glass which is real nice. The ceiling above my games is this way and works great.
I actually don't have a ceiling in my basement. It's just the joists and the joists themselves are too low by one inch...
I have a ST Pro. From floor to the very top of raised pf is 80 1/2 inches (the highest point being several inches before leaning against back). This measurement includes those two metal "clips" that hook into the front. They stick out a full inch.
Quoted from EricR:You could get a jack and lifter attachment or a lift table and then just remove the legs and lower the jack down. That would put the machine about 4 inches lower than its legs on height.
Edit: If there is any concern about stability while the machine is sitting on the jack/lift table with the playfield up you could also build a little stand out of 2x4s that the game could rest on while working. That stand could be your shorter legs so to speak.
That makes me a bit nervous, and my carpentry skills are pretty much nonexistant. But it is an interesting idea.
Quoted from MustangPaul:I've never seen them but that doesn't mean they don't exist. How much of a drop are the ceiling tiles? Are you planning on getting more games? If I were in your position I would just remove the tiles over the game permanently and paint the joists flat black. With it being flat black above the game there is no white ceiling reflection on the game glass which is real nice. The ceiling above my games is this way and works great.
That's an idea, but I think it will take more work. The tiles are covering pipes and wires. Even with the tiles off, I'm not sure I would have that much more room. Still, I don't have a lot of other places to put what I hope is an expanding collection, so I may have to put up some money to configure the space, assuming it can be done.
Quoted from EricR:You could get a jack and lifter attachment or a lift table and then just remove the legs and lower the jack down.
One other question: How much are those jacks for lifting pins? The more I think about your idea, the more I like it.
Quoted from Nokoro:That's an idea, but I think it will take more work. The tiles are covering pipes and wires. Even with the tiles off, I'm not sure I would have that much more room. Still, I don't have a lot of other places to put what I hope is an expanding collection, so I may have to put up some money to configure the space, assuming it can be done.
So the tiles are directly attached to the floor joists in that area?
Quoted from pinballsmith:I actually don't have a ceiling in my basement. It's just the joists and the joists themselves are too low by one inch...
How many games do you have? You could always slide the game out and turn it sideways so when you lift the pf it's between the joists. There's your needed inches.
Quoted from MustangPaul:How many games do you have? You could always slid the game out and turn it sideways so when you lift the pf it's between the joists. There's your needed inches.
It's a weird basement and the joists seem to run perpendicular to the walls. I'll get some pictures put up.
Quoted from Nokoro:Thanks. But unless I am missing something, that doesn't give the height of the playfield when you lift it up. Just the height of the machine (just under 76"). I need to know if the playfield is going to clear the ceiling when I lift it to do maintenance.
sorry, i forgot to include this http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/formulas/faq.triangle.html#scalenetri
seriously, I only read the headline! lol
Quoted from MustangPaul:So the tiles are directly attached to the floor joists in that area?
Actually, taking another look, I think you may have just solved my problem. I do have a space where the pipes aren't hanging down. If I remove the ceiling tiles, I get to about 84-85" before the floor joists. This will allow me to have space for 1-2 more pins. Thanks! 
Quoted from Nokoro:Actually, taking another look, I think you may have just solved my problem. I do have a space where the pipes aren't hanging down. If I remove the ceiling tiles, I get to about 84-85" before the floor joists. This will allow me to have space for 1-2 more pins. Thanks!
Your very welcome...you just made my day, I actually helped another Pinsider. 
Don't forget to paint it flat black.
Quoted from MustangPaul:Your very welcome...you just made my day, I actually helped another Pinsider.
Not to mention saving my marriage. 
The only other place for it was in our living room which my wife was adamantly against!
Quoted from Nokoro:Not to mention saving my marriage. The only other place for it was in our living room which my wife was adamantly against!
Now I REALLY feel good. 
And here your wife probably thought what a total waste of time you were spending on Pinside.
Quoted from Nokoro:One other question: How much are those jacks for lifting pins? The more I think about your idea, the more I like it.
It sounds like maybe its a moot point now but the jacks go for around $100 and then you also need an attachment for extra height to reach the bottom of the cabinet. You can get a nice one from Bruce at www.pinballlifter.com that's pre-fit for a Craftsman jack or other people have built their own attachment too.
I personally find having the jack with the lift/tilt kit around is a very nice convenience.
Ok. Here is the official answer from Stern in response to my email:
"Hi Mark,
You will need an extra 6 inches to fully raise the playfield. Sounds like it will be kind of tight for your space."
That would mean you need 85". Sounds like they are being a bit conservative given the other posts in this thread. I don't blame them. It may also have to do with whether the leg levelers are at full extension or not. Either way, by removing the ceiling tiles, I should be able to make it work.
Correction: I just clarified with Stern. They mean 6" above backbox height to fully raise the playfield. So, that's consistent with the posts. Thanks everyone!
I have a similar problem in my basement. I dial the legs all the way down to get just barely enough clearance on my NBAFB to lift the playfield. You may want to check with those who quoted 80/80.5 if all the legs were dialed all the way down (probably not, why do it unless you needed to?). I use Magic Sliders to make the adjustment easier, also. Just have to remember to re-level when done with maintenance.
Quoted from westofrome:I have a similar problem in my basement. I dial the legs all the way down to get just barely enough clearance on my NBAFB to lift the playfield. You may want to check with those who quoted 80/80.5 if all the legs were dialed all the way down (probably not, why do it unless you needed to?). I use Magic Sliders to make the adjustment easier, also. Just have to remember to re-level when done with maintenance.
Quoted from westofrome:I have a similar problem in my basement. I dial the legs all the way down to get just barely enough clearance on my NBAFB to lift the playfield. You may want to check with those who quoted 80/80.5 if all the legs were dialed all the way down (probably not, why do it unless you needed to?). I use Magic Sliders to make the adjustment easier, also. Just have to remember to re-level when done with maintenance.
What a pain in the neck. I suppose it is ok with newer games that need less maintenance. But I'm opening up my 1986 Special Force every week to do something. I have to move the ceiling tiles each time. I can't imagine having to relevel it as well. . . .
Just to update this thread, I removed the ceiling tiles around the area like MustangPaul suggested. That gives me enough space. Here is a picture showing the area with ceiling tiles and without. You can't see it too well, but I do gain enough inches over where I'm going to put the pin. (Ignore the kids' art work.)
Here's another picture.
Unfortunately, that left a number of wires hanging down.
I found these things at Home Depot to deal with the wires:
They work great:
I have to admit that the ceiling still looks a bit worse than I imagined. My wife is not happy . . . even though she initially agreed. I'm going to try to make this look a bit nicer. I probably won't paint things black. I was thinking about getting some sheets to hang over the area, kind of like draping hanging tapestries from the top. Then maybe get a cheap hanging lamp from Ikea. I'll post some more pictures to show you how my game area is progressing!
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