(Topic ID: 33312)

how much are WOZ LE's actually selling for?


By edwinpblue

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 83 posts
  • 44 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by RobT
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 6 years ago

All of the original hype revolved around how much money all of the speculators were going to make and how much smarter they were to make the deposit/payments. are they really making much? I'm
not talking about how much they are asking but rather how much they are actually selling for. if there aren't a bunch of unique toys and the only advantage to the LE is the exclusiveness of having a machine that is limited to 1500 units then the real question is did they make enough to justify having their money tied up for 18-24 months.

over that same 18-24 month period they could have bought games, flipped them for a slight loss or profit and then used that very same cash to buy a non LE WOZ that might actually be more exclusive than the LE.

there are a finite number of pinball owners. adding an additional manufacturer doesn't mean the number of units sold will increase two fold. a guy that has two machines won't got to four because there is another player. a location with one pin won't automatically place two machines just because there are two manufacturers. will that finite number stay the same? no. maybe total units sold will increase ten to fifty percent when you add an additional manufacturer. so how many plain versions of WOZ will jj sell? will there even be 1500 regular versions sold? when they finally complete the run of 1500 LE's and then start the regular version will there be enough time to sell 1500 or more before the hobbit starts selling?

what are your thoughts? are the original purchasers making enough to justify the wait? will jj sell more than 1500 plain versions?

#2 6 years ago

$7500 and up

#3 6 years ago

Like I told everyone ten years ago (it seems about that long!) when they first announced WoZ... Wait and play it! No need to jump in right away. If they were only making a limited number like 250 or so I wouldn't have necessarily felt that way but 1000 LE's? Seriously? And endless more Standards? Seriously? They will be available now and forever and the HUO ones will be selling for even less. This was definitely one to wait on!

For more priceless advice please call my Pin HotLine and 1-888-teekee1

#4 6 years ago

There seem to be a few slots available pre-delivery for the LE that seem to be in the $7000 to $7500 range but I don't think we'll really know if those that speculated on the game, especially to make money on it, will know until the game is finished and released. If it's a spectacular game then those that bought in might be able to flip them and make a few dollars.

I'm guessing that the vast majority of those that bought in were buying in hopes of getting an outstanding game at a good price. We'll see if that's the case in the coming months.

Dave

#5 6 years ago

For me I just made a deal a few days ago for an LE at 7500. I was going to do a standard but I couldnt get over not having the green rails as silly as that might be. I think its a beautiful game and really will look great in my basement theater. I don't actually care if its more or less rare since its not likely to ever leave. As long as wife loves slapping the ball around on it then I'll have made the right choice.

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

Like I told everyone ten years ago (it seems about that long!) when they first announced WoZ... Wait and play it! No need to jump in right away. If they were only making a limited number like 250 or so I wouldn't have necessarily felt that way but 1000 LE's? Seriously? And endless more Standards? Seriously? They will be available now and forever and the HUO ones will be selling for even less. This was definitely one to wait on!
For more priceless advice please call my Pin HotLine and 1-888-teekee1

You'll never forget your first Pinside post. Enjoy those karma points.

#7 6 years ago

I just bought a WOZ ECLE from a fellow pinsider...$7500

#8 6 years ago

Sorry if this wasn't your first post, the meter shows zero. Probably a server issue.

#9 6 years ago

Wozle isn't selling. Only slot are selling. When someone actually has a WoZ to sell only then we will see.

#10 6 years ago

Based on comments from people who have purchased one and played the machines in their current condition, I believe there will be plenty available post launch. The first sales may get a slight premium but if 1000 were truly sold this is not a rare pin. Also the non-LE has all of the same playability as the LE (like a premium.) I'm sure the LE will be readily available in the 6k-6,500 range two-three months after launch. Whenever that is.

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from edwinpblue:

All of the original hype revolved around how much money all of the speculators were going to make and how much smarter they were to make the deposit/payments. are they really making much? I'm
not talking about how much they are asking but rather how much they are actually selling for. if there aren't a bunch of unique toys and the only advantage to the LE is the exclusiveness of having a machine that is limited to 1500 units then the real question is did they make enough to justify having their money tied up for 18-24 months.
over that same 18-24 month period they could have bought games, flipped them for a slight loss or profit and then used that very same cash to buy a non LE WOZ that might actually be more exclusive than the LE.
there are a finite number of pinball owners. adding an additional manufacturer doesn't mean the number of units sold will increase two fold. a guy that has two machines won't got to four because there is another player. a location with one pin won't automatically place two machines just because there are two manufacturers. will that finite number stay the same? no. maybe total units sold will increase ten to fifty percent when you add an additional manufacturer. so how many plain versions of WOZ will jj sell? will there even be 1500 regular versions sold? when they finally complete the run of 1500 LE's and then start the regular version will there be enough time to sell 1500 or more before the hobbit starts selling?
what are your thoughts? are the original purchasers making enough to justify the wait? will jj sell more than 1500 plain versions?

First of all...there are 1000 LE's being made, not 1500. Secondly those of us who preordered early paid $6500...not $7500. Thirdly most of us did buy and sell other games in the meanwhile as other opportunities arose. And finally, we did not have to lose any sleep over if we could get one and at what price later as you are currently doing, and if we do not like it we will obviously not take a loss on it.
All of the above justified the wait.

#12 6 years ago

WOZLE bought and coming soon we all hope. It is obviously setting a standard never seen before . Who knows if it will hold it's value. I have Avengers HULK arriving in the next 3 weeks, may not hold it's value. Purchased 12 Sterns , several LEs , that were HUO, paid a lot less than NIB. It's a hobby, not an investment, most will go down in price. Buy what you can afford, enjoy playing.

#13 6 years ago

first I stand corrected, secondly I never said you paid $7500, third you have no idea what other people did regarding buying and selling games and finally I haven't lost a moments sleep over this. I buy games if they are a good deal AND if they are fun; that is considerably different than you. you bought a game on a promise. yes that promise will probably be fulfilled. that doesnt change the fact that I'll be able to buy an LE for $6000-7000 sometime in the next year.

#14 6 years ago

Personally if it falls 500 bucks in the next year im ok with that 500 bucks for me to enjoy a pin for a year is a small 10 dollar a week investment. Anyone wanna rent me a Great game for 10 bucks a week?

#15 6 years ago
Quoted from bouncerclub:

For me I just made a deal a few days ago for an LE at 7500. I was going to do a standard but I couldnt get over not having the green rails as silly as that might be. I think its a beautiful game and really will look great in my basement theater. I don't actually care if its more or less rare since its not likely to ever leave. As long as wife loves slapping the ball around on it then I'll have made the right choice.

Same here.

Had the chance to play the game at one of the dealers, at that time some guy was turning his reservation in. The slot came down to me. Just like you (and no it is not the number one factor) my wife was completely entertained by the game. I would have waited until the game was in the hands of the dealers if I could have gotten it with all the trim. I am curious how long JJ will run production of the "standard" edition.

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from edwinpblue:

All of the original hype revolved around how much money all of the speculators were going to make and how much smarter they were to make the deposit/payments. are they really making much? I'm
not talking about how much they are asking but rather how much they are actually selling for. if there aren't a bunch of unique toys and the only advantage to the LE is the exclusiveness of having a machine that is limited to 1500 units then the real question is did they make enough to justify having their money tied up for 18-24 months.
over that same 18-24 month period they could have bought games, flipped them for a slight loss or profit and then used that very same cash to buy a non LE WOZ that might actually be more exclusive than the LE.
there are a finite number of pinball owners. adding an additional manufacturer doesn't mean the number of units sold will increase two fold. a guy that has two machines won't got to four because there is another player. a location with one pin won't automatically place two machines just because there are two manufacturers. will that finite number stay the same? no. maybe total units sold will increase ten to fifty percent when you add an additional manufacturer. so how many plain versions of WOZ will jj sell? will there even be 1500 regular versions sold? when they finally complete the run of 1500 LE's and then start the regular version will there be enough time to sell 1500 or more before the hobbit starts selling?
what are your thoughts? are the original purchasers making enough to justify the wait? will jj sell more than 1500 plain versions?

The only way to tell if the wait was justified is by what is delivered. Code is going to make or break this pin. If it is an epic game like LOTR with the humor of TSPP you could be waiting much longer than a year to buy one in the 6-7k range. All speculative of course.

As far as units JJP can sell. I think they will surpass 1500 units but that is still dependent on code. If the game has the depth people are expecting from KJ than these will be kicking owners asses for longer than most pins so will sit in collections longer.

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from BagAJellyDonuts:

I am curious how long JJ will run production of the "standard" edition.

ummmmmmmmmmm, maybe as many as he can sell?

#18 6 years ago

I didn't buy mine to make money. I bought it for 2 reasons. The first is speculating that it was going to be a good game for my collection and I was looking forward to the next generation of pinball. The second reason was to support a new pinball company. It did wonders for waking Stern up.

#19 6 years ago

you make interesting points but my issue is what people are expecting. until recently who expected to be disappointed with the code in their new stern. I bought Wolvering expecting a great game. it was lousy. yes 1.21 helped a lot but not enough; from here on out I will only buy a nib game if I have had the chance to buy it. a thousand people are buying wozle expecting the world. in point of fact they are paying for the hobbit too. many people will put a deposit down on the hobbit before they even receive their wozle. sooner or later jj will deliver a turd. hopefully it's later.

#20 6 years ago
Quoted from pinstor12:

ummmmmmmmmmm, maybe as many as he can sell?

Yes. Jack said that was his plan when he started his endeavor and assured everyone that he would build enough games to satisfy the demand. With TH being so far out that sure gives him plenty of time to to keep making regular WOZ games with minimal staff. Being that he is using as many standard wms/bally parts as possible maybe his plan is to keep on building them further down the road as demand dictates?
On the other hand he has been around the business long enough to know better than to tie up his money stocking games in a warehouse. It will be interesting for sure. And as said, the code could make or break it and he is well aware of that fact.

#21 6 years ago

This topic reminds me of my annihilated chances to ever join the NIB crews.

I am lost for pinball unless a miracle happens. I have become a pinball peasent.

#22 6 years ago

OP: your first is wrong off the bat. The hype was never about profiteering and flipping WOZ. It was about getting in on a new pin company with updated technology and a new level of quality. And for LE pre-orders being a great deal at $6500. Besides the numbered LE, the shaker, green trim (it's amazing), invisiglass, topper, and killer wooden apron top make it a great deal.

I bought in based on the JJP team and mission. Not disappointed at all. Based on what I saw Friday, I expect LEs to hold their prices well above $7k. The game is gorgeous, looks and sounds great. Toys, lighting, display, sound, build quality, cabinet, artwork are all beyond anything Stern has produced to date. And I have zero doubt that the rules will be killer as well. We'll all see when they ship soon...

#23 6 years ago

There is no waiting to tell if it was justified. It was justified. Period.

The reason being we now have a second major pinball manufacturer. JJP was able to get off the ground because of those of us who pre-ordered WOZ ECLE.

There's much more to the picture than $500 loss, $1000 gain. It's about having more options for newly manufactured pinball machines. Those who ordered Predator, Magic Girl, and Zombieland also helped the cause. These new machines are possible only with our dollars funding their development.

Quoted from edwinpblue:

All of the original hype revolved around how much money all of the speculators were going to make and how much smarter they were to make the deposit/payments. are they really making much?

This tells me all I need to know about the OP's agenda.

Go sign-up with e-trade and speculate in the stock market. This is pinball. Thanks!

#24 6 years ago

Bought a WOZ LE early on not just for the pin, but to support the hobby by supporting a manufacturer who seemed to be addressing all the issues that worry me regarding the future of the hobby.

The product he has developed and the direction it pushes the state of the art in pin is all the speculation with which I was concerned.

So whether my pin maintains its individual value is less important to me than whether JJP maintains its high standards.

THAT'S the only speculation that is relevant. And in that respect, I think the signs are very positive, REGARDLESS of what the resale value of WOZ does.

#25 6 years ago
Quoted from Plungemaster:

This topic reminds me of my annihilated chances to ever join the NIB crews.
I am lost for pinball unless a miracle happens. I have become a pinball peasent.

Thats a good one..."pinball peasant"

I'll be there soon with the NIB pricing continually rising, but I just gotta have a Star Trek when it comes out. I guess its the later stages of the "but honey, I just gotta have one more game" syndrome.

#26 6 years ago

Seriously? Bought WOZ day 1 of pre-order. Did not buy it to flip for profit nor express some sort of intellectual superiority. Bought WOZ to support a new manufacturer in the hobby I love and to get a kick-ass machine to add to my collection. Looking good so far.

#27 6 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

Like I told everyone ten years ago (it seems about that long!) when they first announced WoZ... Wait and play it! No need to jump in right away. If they were only making a limited number like 250 or so I wouldn't have necessarily felt that way but 1000 LE's? Seriously? And endless more Standards? Seriously? They will be available now and forever and the HUO ones will be selling for even less. This was definitely one to wait on!
For more priceless advice please call my Pin HotLine and 1-888-teekee1

They made 20,000+ TAF and I hardly see them for sale.

#28 6 years ago

Nobody will know true value for at least several months.

#29 6 years ago
Quoted from extraballingtmc:

Nobody will know true value for at least several months.

When the rules are finished and the game released, it will be interesting to see what happens withe price then

#30 6 years ago
Quoted from edwinpblue:

third you have no idea what other people did regarding buying and selling games and finally I haven't lost a moments sleep over this

This is an odd statement, what other people are you referencing? I happen to speak to a lot of people about my buying and selling, as Im sure playernumber4 does as well

#31 6 years ago

want to like it, looks great, lets see one done already!!!! when the game can be played and evaluated, then lets talk..... get that pin done

-2
#32 6 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

They made 20,000+ TAF and I hardly see them for sale.

*sigh*... *SIGH!*... this argument again? really? No, I mean really??? Tom, if you really believe this is a valid argument (and its been used several times which boggles my mind) you really need to call my Hotline as well as a few other Hotlines! Poor Tom...

#33 6 years ago
Quoted from edwinpblue:

that doesnt change the fact that I'll be able to buy an LE for $6000-7000 sometime in the next year.

Wow, thats a fact now? Sounds like a great deal, congrats.

#34 6 years ago

and you can be sure when the price does drop that I'll post it here. if they don't I'll be big enough to admit I was wrong. I'm guessing most of you cool aid drinking tools won't be big enough to admit you were wrong.

#35 6 years ago
Quoted from edwinpblue:

and you can be sure when the price does drop that I'll post it here. if they don't I'll be big enough to admit I was wrong. I'm guessing most of you cool aid drinking tools won't be big enough to admit you were wrong.

Who cares if the price drops? I'm betting it will since there are so many of them and unlimited standards with zero gameplay differences. If it stays above $6500, which it will, most will be thrilled. For the millionth time, if you are buying a game expecting it to appreciate in value or even hold its value then you shouldn't be buying the game. Buy it to have some fun and make sure it is truly disposable income.

#36 6 years ago
Quoted from edwinpblue:

and you can be sure when the price does drop that I'll post it here. if they don't I'll be big enough to admit I was wrong. I'm guessing most of you cool aid drinking tools won't be big enough to admit you were wrong.

It's "Kool aid" not "cool aid", sheesh.

#37 6 years ago

Hmm...is that ezsleeze hiding behind that shiny new avatar? The voice kinda sounds similar. Must not be anyone left on RGP anymore to stir the bucket!

Quoted from edwinpblue:and you can be sure when the price does drop that I'll post it here. if they don't I'll be big enough to admit I was wrong. I'm guessing most of you cool aid drinking tools won't be big enough to admit you were wrong.

#38 6 years ago

Value will most likely go down but that is life...check out the value of your new car when you drove it off the lot. The collector world has changed since the Williams era. 20 years ago they made 20K pins in a run but 99.9999% of them went to operators and into service. Alot of them died or took a beating in the line of duty so there are few "mint" examples. Hence they are collectible now. There were very few home collectors...fast forward 20 years and now we are older with some spending cash trying to relive our youth. We buy NIB games that will most likely never go in service so there will be plenty of minty games for most of the future collectors...this will increase supply and hold prices in line. Same thing happens when the Franklin Mint offers their crap....they never appreciate because everyone keeps them in a glass case. But people think they will appreciate and be rare in the future like that 100 year old statue that is a real survivor.

Buy a pin:
First to play and enjoy...
Second to "hope" it holds it value
Third to "pray" is appreciates

-4
#39 6 years ago

fourth to hope you receive it in a timely fashion and then hope it's enjoyable. @ the spelling nazi. I realize pinside is a safer place with the spelling police on duty. I'll make sure to chastise my iphone for auto correcting the same way you chastised me for misspelling Kool Aid. besides what kind of fool actually knows how to spell it besides a frugal adult that cheaps out on his kids or some early twenties slacker that drinks it to save money because they aren't fully employed. either way you aren't part of this discussion because you obviously cannot afford brand name soft drinks therefore you cannot afford a $7000 pin. go sell your plasma so that you can make the minimum payment on your $500 limit credit card or better yet get a real job.

#40 6 years ago

.....1,2,3,4, countdown to moderator telling edwinpblue to take it easy. LOL

#41 6 years ago

edwinpblue....you kinda replied to me on the "fourth" option but then lost me on the rest of your post. Who are you referring to?
Garry

-1
#42 6 years ago

the guy who felt obligated to correct my spelling. look it seems that either people are pro jj or anti jj. had stern promised a "better" game that you had to pay upfront for people would have laughed. just because someone is new and promises the world doesn't make it so. I cannot think of anything in life where you pay now and receive what you are paying for two years down the road. if people
are ok with this business model then more power to them. it's their money.

it seems that everyone who paid their money feel that they are one up on everyone else. that is their opinion. I don't feel they are in my opinion. they are HOPING that they game will be good. they are HOPING that their game will hold more value than the regular version of WOZ. maybe their hope will pan out. regardless of what DOES pan out I'm not wrong for a) waiting to see if the game is good b) hoping the price drops after a a large portion of the wozle games have hit the market and c) thinking it is completely crazy to pay money for jj version 2 when version 1 hasn't even been delivered.

#43 6 years ago
Quoted from edwinpblue:

and you can be sure when the price does drop that I'll post it here. if they don't I'll be big enough to admit I was wrong. I'm guessing most of you cool aid drinking tools won't be big enough to admit you were wrong.

Wrong at what? If anybody has been "toolesque", that would be you. Maybe I'll start a thread about all these suckers that bought MM for 10k plus, knowing in a year from now I'll be able to pick one up for sub 3k.

Like others have said, if you are buying games as an investment, "you're doing it wrong". I bought into WOZ because I wanted to get the first game from a brand new company, and I believe in the team that Jack has put together. It doesn't matter to me if it gains or loses value, as it's never going to be for sale. At least you still have 999 other LEs to try and buy next year.

#44 6 years ago

Wow! all this hate for cool Kool-Aid. I mean sure the big K is evil, but there are bigger evils in our pinball world.

#45 6 years ago

Nothing like a good redundant, negative, de sha vue thread.

#46 6 years ago
Quoted from edwinpblue:

All of the original hype revolved around how much money all of the speculators were going to make and how much smarter they were to make the deposit/payments. are they really making much? I'm
not talking about how much they are asking but rather how much they are actually selling for

I don't remember the original hype being about speculation and how much smarter people were???? I really don't ever remember that being talked about.

I am pretty sure that the people that bought for 6,500 in the first six months were just excited about being part of a new exciting company, with exciting ideas about pinball. sure some people might have thought this pin will be worth 10k...and who knows maybe someday it will, but i dont think that was a driver behind the 99% of the WOZLE owners

#47 6 years ago

New company, great talent, listened to Jack's presentation and I like the theme. I ordered the game because I thought it would be fun an had the disposable cash. It is that simple.

Loved Tolkien since high school, JJP offers the Hobbit, pleased with what I see of WOZ, finances look good, ordered that one too because it sounds like fun.

It is that simple. Pinball is fun. Some folks need to relax.

#48 6 years ago
Quoted from edwinpblue:

what kind of fool actually knows how to spell it besides a frugal adult that cheaps out on his kids or some early twenties slacker that drinks it to save money because they aren't fully employed. either way you aren't part of this discussion because you obviously cannot afford brand name soft drinks therefore you cannot afford a $7000 pin. go sell your plasma so that you can make the minimum payment on your $500 limit credit card or better yet get a real job.

Sell your Plasma? Wow. You are an as much of an idiot in the Electronics arena as the Pinball one.

#49 6 years ago

@ pinballisland
it's interesting how you quoted me then chose not to answer my question that you quoted. it was a simple question. how much are people getting paid for their wozle. I know how much they are asking now I'd like to know how much they are getting paid. also 99% seems like a number you made up on the spot. why don't we just say "I'm guessing a significant number of the people who bought it at $6500 weren't speculators but were instead blah blah blah"

#50 6 years ago

@ Jettjoe

that's Blood plasma but I'm sure you knew that.

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