(Topic ID: 166589)

How Many MMR "distributors" are there?


By Whysnow

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by xTheBlackKnightx
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There are 98 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

gotta love when they resort to personal attacks.

Pinball Pro - They sell speakers and other stuff, ever heard of them?
Automated Services -Biggest distro for pretty much all the games
FlipNout - Larry Kitchen, guy with the escalaras at expo, tps, southern fried and numerous other shows
Pinballstar- just look at the children's hospital donation threads

These are the people you are saying are fly by night and are selling junk that will need to be liquidated soon. That's what is listed in the market place. Not sure how you see that as a personal attack. Looks more like a fact to me.

#52 3 years ago

Ahem

Is AFM a reality?

#53 3 years ago

@Whysnow So if I understand correctly, you think there is a good number of "fly by night" distributors who may get in over their heads with too much stock and at some point need to liquidate their stock at firesale prices. Is that it?

I suppose anything is possible, but if I understand your concern correctly, I think there are a couple things that don't quite work with that premise:
1) As long as demand for any product is good, there is no need to mark down prices significantly. I would guess that even a $100 discount could provide a significant advantage in sales to a distributor, which I would hardly consider "firesale". (Heck, there are still Stern distributors with NIB Transformers and X-men, and I don't see firesale prices on those.) If you are looking for a point where there would be firesale prices for MMr, I think you would be better served trying to predict what quantity of $8000 MMr the market can sustain and comparing that with your prediction of CGC production plans. Good luck with that.
2) Can you be more specific about which distributors are "fly by night". Clearly, different distributors have different reputations, but I'm not sure I would call any distributor mentioned in this thread as "fly by night".

#54 3 years ago

Thank you for the kind words, and I'll add everyone on that list should be a good egg. We are vetted before we get the seal of approval, once in a while a bad egg might slip through but any of these companies will dispense of you very quickly if you aren't on the up and up. And since Larry from FlipNOut commented above I will add he's a class act and happy to have him as both a PPS and JJP peer - you will find many of us respect each other and get along. For the most part many of us are collectors like you guys and do business thing to expand on our love of the hobby.

Thanks Joe! You are definitely one of the good guys and no I'm still not wearing that T-Shirt you gave me. LOL

#55 3 years ago

Whysnow, why do you care about how many distributors?
Seems to me an attempt to make an issue out if thin air

If a distributor carries too much stock, that is his problem, not mine

If Stern PPS JJP take on noobie distributors, then they are fools, but still not my problem

If a buyer buys from a couple of guys operating our of the back of a van, then they are fools , still not my problem

-3
#56 3 years ago

I dont really care at all.

Just an observation.

there are:

1. LOTS of new distributors doing the MMr thing that have not been pinball distributors in the past
2. LOTS of stock of MMr currently out there and readily available from both the regular guys and these new guys (sounds like some is virtual stock and some of hard stock on hand)
3. Already issues with some of the previously approved PPS distributors >> see twisted pins debacle
4. Issues with MMr (poor insert registration/saturation) and from what I have personally seen, games not holding up over time
5. Lots of new games coming out in the next few months and lots of lightly used MMr available already, plus the likely announcement of the next remake very soon?

I think all these things contribute to the likelyhood that we are going to be seeing large price reductions on NIB MMr

I do understand that especially with the back alley re-sellers they are going to be defensive over this observation. I also understand that some MMr owners will be defensive.

I see the market has shifted on MMr and supply seems to have gone up with demand going down.

#57 3 years ago

What has Sterns quality control got to do with the number of distributors?

#58 3 years ago

There will be no nib price reduction, the few distributors I've heard from all say it is selling well

#59 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I dont really care at all.
Just an observation.
there are:
1. LOTS of new distributors doing the MMr thing that have not been pinball distributors in the past
2. LOTS of stock of MMr currently out there and readily available from both the regular guys and these new guys (sounds like some is virtual stock and some of hard stock on hand)
3. Already issues with some of the previously approved PPS distributors >> see twisted pins debacle
4. Issues with MMr (poor insert registration/saturation) and from what I have personally seen, games not holding up over time
5. Lots of new games coming out in the next few months and lots of lightly used MMr available already, plus the likely announcement of the next remake very soon?
I think all these things contribute to the likelyhood that we are going to be seeing large price reductions on NIB MMr
I do understand that especially with the back alley re-sellers they are going to be defensive over this observation. I also understand that some MMr owners will be defensive.
I see the market has shifted on MMr and supply seems to have gone up with demand going down.

1) You keep saying this but you don't name anyone even though you have been asked to several times. Sounds like something you just made up
2) You do not know anything about the stock on hand of pps distributors. You are making random assumptions not based on facts or actual knowledge
3) There are bad people in every road of life and people have gotten ripped off by other distributors for other companies.
4) There are issues with every new game that comes out. Name one that hasn't had them recently.
5) Not much of anything seems to be coming out right now.

A large price decrease is not going to happen. This is not TFLE, WWE, or TAFLE. This is the number 1 ranked game on pinside wether you agree with it or not a lot of people are going to want to own one. The hobby is growing and more people coming in are going to want one.

#60 3 years ago

A ton of BS here.... but I wanted to point out that unless the game has been switched out with another, the MMR at Logans arcade was a test game. MMR didn't ship for many months after that game was put on route so any number of positive changes could have taken place for actual production.

Now, if they removed the test game and got a production game, I dunno, still sounds like BS to me, but it is what it is.

#61 3 years ago

it almost sounds like this entire post is wishful thinking and MMR hate even though there are experienced distributors on here vouching for the game. OP do you own an original MM that you paid $18000 for a couple years ago perhaps and hoping to see it rise again because of the supposed low quality remake? I don't see your collection posted to your account. That's the only sense any of this would make as a post to try to discredit authorized dealers with no backup or naming anyone. Using this strange one off example of a supposed beat up MMr as your punching bag saying the machine is not well built when its basically universally accepted that it IS well built and true to the original.

like jgentry said its the #1 game of all time and there are a lot of people including myself that would love to own one and will someday. The demand is there and the value will hold closer to the original than any MM owner is likely comfortable with. Plus where are all these used MMR's? I haven't seen many at all for sale that aren't originals or NIB.

#62 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

supply seems to have gone up with demand going down.

that tends to happen when people wait 2-3 years for their games. the people that wanted them ordered them long ago.
Now that they are caught [or catching] up, not many new buyers. Too many other good pins in the market currently.

Fire sale? Doubt it. If something comes out that is HOT like JJP's next game then maybe they'd want to free up some capital but don't see it being more than $500 or so discounted.

-13
#63 3 years ago
Quoted from FlipMyBalls:

it almost sounds like this entire post is wishful thinking and MMR hate even though there are experienced distributors on here vouching for the game. OP do you own an original MM that you paid $18000 for a couple years ago perhaps and hoping to see it rise again because of the supposed low quality remake? I don't see your collection posted to your account. That's the only sense any of this would make as a post to try to discredit authorized dealers with no backup or naming anyone. Using this strange one off example of a supposed beat up MMr as your punching bag saying the machine is not well built when its basically universally accepted that it IS well built and true to the original.
like jgentry said its the #1 game of all time and there are a lot of people including myself that would love to own one and will someday. The demand is there and the value will hold closer to the original than any MM owner is likely comfortable with. Plus where are all these used MMR's? I haven't seen many at all for sale that aren't originals or NIB.

(Contents moderated). I owned a MM back inthe day and found it to be lackluster and boring. If looking for a fan layout them afm is the much better game, theme, and comedy.
(Contents moderated) Stick around for a while and get some experience tearing into machines and then you may be able to develop an opinion on what deems quality; mmr is far from the quality in build of the original.
Used mmr are all over the place. A few in the market here. A few on ebay. Quite a few on regional clists. Really are lots of them and that is not even debatable, just take 5 min and look. Demand has definately gone way down in the past few months when it used to outstrip supply.

#64 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

sorry, not even close! I have seen and played plenty of them and been under the hood. remakes are so different that it is obvious based on how they dont hold up like the originals did.

Obvious in what way? Plastics break more easily? Playfield wears more? Mechs break (trolls, castle, catapult)? Ramps crack? I'd really be interested to know. Please be specific as you are so certain in your opinion you must have strong recall of the actual issues.

#65 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Just an observation. there are:
1. LOTS of new distributors doing the MMr thing that have not been pinball distributors in the past

Quoted from jgentry:

Pinball Pro - They sell speakers and other stuff, ever heard of them?
Automated Services -Biggest distro for pretty much all the games
FlipNout - Larry Kitchen, guy with the escalaras at expo, tps, southern fried and numerous other shows
Pinballstar- just look at the children's hospital donation threads
These are the people you are saying are fly by night and are selling junk that will need to be liquidated soon. That's what is listed in the market place. Not sure how you see that as a personal attack. Looks more like a fact to me.

Whysnow said there are five distributors selling on Pinside, I've never bought NIB and even I have heard of the four entities jgentry listed here. Whysnow, why not just list the names of the "LOTS of new distributors doing the MMr thing that have not been pinball distributors in the past"? That would settle at least one issue you've raised. If your concern is with TwistedPins, it sucks that they're shafting their customers, but weren't they involved in the pinball business for a while before they stopped taking calls?

As far as unusual wear goes, I haven't routed one myself but I can say that the MMR on location at 1UP Colfax in Denver always seems to be working fine when I play it, and certainly still looks great, and it's been on route and getting plenty of play for many months now. Doesn't mean the one near you isn't destroyed, of course, but it would be interesting to know if there's something special about that machine (or location) that's leading to potentially anomalous results.

#66 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

You sound like a complete noob, which you are. Also why you don't see my collection, as i have it blocked from noob users. Once you have been around for a while then it automatically becomes visible. I owned a MM back inthe day and found it to be lackluster and boring. If looking for a fan layout them afm is the much better game, theme, and comedy.
Your noobness shines even brighter by the fact that you default to taking the facts from someone selling the game as the end all be all. Stick around for a while and get some experience tearing into machines and then you may be able to develop an opinion on what deems quality; mmr is far from the quality in build of the original.
Used mmr are all over the place. A few in the market here. A few on ebay. Quite a few on regional clists. Really are lots of them and that is not even debatable, just take 5 min and look. Demand has definately gone way down in the past few months when it used to outstrip supply.

Seems like you are now the one spitting out the personal attacks. Just saying'.

#67 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

You sound like a complete noob, which you are. Also why you don't see my collection, as i have it blocked from noob users. Once you have been around for a while then it automatically becomes visible. I owned a MM back inthe day and found it to be lackluster and boring. If looking for a fan layout them afm is the much better game, theme, and comedy.
Your noobness shines even brighter by the fact that you default to taking the facts from someone selling the game as the end all be all. Stick around for a while and get some experience tearing into machines and then you may be able to develop an opinion on what deems quality; mmr is far from the quality in build of the original.
Used mmr are all over the place. A few in the market here. A few on ebay. Quite a few on regional clists. Really are lots of them and that is not even debatable, just take 5 min and look. Demand has definately gone way down in the past few months when it used to outstrip supply.

Dude, I have been collecting for 35 years, you are all noobs to me

#68 3 years ago
Quoted from Bearcat:

Being charged 1.5% CC fee which offsets my points.

Report the "merchant" to the Credit Card Company.

#69 3 years ago
Quoted from PopBumperPete:

Dude, I have been collecting for 35 years, you are all noobs to me

Only 35 years ?

Noob.

LTG : )

#70 3 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

And just incase anyone wants to actually know who the distributors are they are listed on the PPS website for all the world to see and there is not that many of them. Looks like there is a whopping 14 US distributors. I'm not sure how many of them are Tom, Dick, or Harry though.
http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=Resellers

At least one of the resellers listed is a Dick. About a 400 pound one.

#71 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Only 35 years ?
Noob.
LTG : )

Gee whiz , how old ARE you??????

#72 3 years ago

Ha! The collection started in 1972 for me and repairing to make some coin in '76. And LTG is a bit older than me.

Back_In_'72_(resized).jpg

#73 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I owned a MM back inthe day and found it to be lackluster and boring. If looking for a fan layout them afm is the much better game, theme, and comedy.
Stick around for a while and get some experience tearing into machines and then you may be able to develop an opinion on what deems quality; mmr is far from the quality in build of the original.
Used mmr are all over the place. A few in the market here. A few on ebay. Quite a few on regional clists. Really are lots of them and that is not even debatable, just take 5 min and look. Demand has definately gone way down in the past few months when it used to outstrip supply.

Thats right i am new to pinball.

Sorry but yes i think the distrubutor who sells services and fixes 50+ mmrs likely has a much broader knowledge base than you, and this supposed 1 mmr youve seen.

#74 3 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

At least one of the resellers listed is a Dick. About a 400 pound one.

Hey I am a Bob and only recently made it to 340 pounds. I have sold pins and games since 1987 but have been around coin op since 1978.

#75 3 years ago

Not all distributors for PPS/CGC need to advertise on Pinside. Yes it's a great way to sell but if you have been in business since 1988 full time and provide good service at fair prices the repeat business is really rewarding, plus all the additional word of mouth is great. Until recently all we could do is wait and wait and the pins would trickle in. Usually I had a small 200 deposit and once I got the call from Doug I woukd ask for full payment and ship it to the customer. I also have some in stock and people can come and play pins in the interactive showroom. Sometimes they find others they like. A good distributor takes care of his customers with climate controlled storage until the customer is ready and has several different types of vehicles from box van truck with liftgate that allow for pickup at the factory of 8 at a time and can deliver in person on the way home saving their customer shipping and giving the in person set and help which is oh so valuable and helpful. We can even drive all night with just one in a minivan new in the box to make that husband birthday wish come true. I have been blessed with so many repeat customers but I try so hard by doing little extras and it helps. Just because you don't have an advertisement up doesn't mean the pins are not selling. I will be getting 5 more next week with 3 already gone. It's ok to sit on them a few weeks for a call or walk in customer. Not everyone is on Pinside some still use the phone. I do not sell above MAP Manufacturer Advertised Price either call me or PM 7995 for everyone but I do go out of my way to please people when possible. If you don't you can't stay in business 28 years
Thanks from the bottom of my heart from all who have ordered from me or purchased on Ebay under doughslingers back in 1999 to 2005 those were special golden times. I look forward to doing this for 20 more years I hope. Thanks for reading and everyone keep playing and buying from.many of the good dealers who have spoken in this thread.

Thanks Buddy
Mountain Entertainment Inc

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#76 3 years ago

Another shady distro hoarding all of the AC/DC's of the world. Glad I got the premium from you before you decided to keep it also

#77 3 years ago
Quoted from doughslingers:

Hey I am a Bob and only recently made it to 340 pounds. I have sold pins and games since 1987 but have been around coin op since 1978.

Certainly not referring to you.

#78 3 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Certainly not referring to you.

I was joking witg you, Bob is my dad's name. I am really Robert but because of all the confusion with that common name especially in my family and the South, I became Buddy.

#79 3 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Another shady distro hoarding all of the AC/DC's or the world. Glad I got the premium from you before you decided to keep it also

You have to have them in stock to sell them. I just have a Luci for sale now and thanks for your business.

12
#80 3 years ago

I am a Distributor and have sold over 75 mmr other than

1 main Io board fail
1 LCD hdmi cable faulty
6 insert defused kits to supply

That's all I have had to deal with, pretty good if you ask me

1 week later
#81 3 years ago

Fire sale!
Just kidding. I have MMR's in stock

Can ship now!

#82 3 years ago
Quoted from flipnout1:

Fire sale!
Just kidding. I have MMR's in stock
Can ship now!

You're the closest distro to me (other than pinball co)

Been thinking about adding a MMr since Stern is still shipping bad PF's.

Who makes the MMr PF? Same Co as Stern? (I mean I know they assemble it). I don't want clear chipping off my inserts so I gotta ask.

The weak insert text printing issue was resolved right?

What was the deal with that? Did they need to screen it black twice & just forget or did they accidentally omit the white background like the pinball news article speculated?

What about that sound issue? I keep reading about sound going south after being powered up for an hour.

Sorry to bombard you with the questions. Other distros please feel free to reply too & take some heat off flipnout1

#83 3 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

A ton of BS here.... but I wanted to point out that unless the game has been switched out with another, the MMR at Logans arcade was a test game. MMR didn't ship for many months after that game was put on route so any number of positive changes could have taken place for actual production.
Now, if they removed the test game and got a production game, I dunno, still sounds like BS to me, but it is what it is.

That is an interesting insight. Explains the issues with that specific example for sure. Was the test game moved around a couple different locations as well?

#84 3 years ago
Quoted from PW79:

You're the closest distro to me (other than pinball co)
Been thinking about adding a MMr since Stern is still shipping bad PF's.
Who makes the MMr PF? Same Co as Stern? (I mean I know they assemble it)
The weak insert text was resolved right?
What about that sound issue. I keep read g about sound going south after being powered up for an hour.
Sorry to bombard you with the questions. Other distros please feel free to reply too & take some heat off flipnout1

I'm interested in these answers as well. Considering selling a game or trading a game for an MMr soon.

#85 3 years ago

I've had my MMr since January and absolutely love it! Probably have around 1000 games in on it and it's working perfectly. Playfield clear coat is beautiful. I highly recommend a MMR

#86 3 years ago

My buddy has one, and I've seen no issues with Playfield or build quality. Great game!

#87 3 years ago

Good to hear

But... Stern didn't have PF problems till they had PF problems

If "they" use the same PF source then it's just a matter of time until MMr is added to GB, SMVE, GOT, MET & whatever is next on their line.

#88 3 years ago

Stern has two sources for playfields I'm told. Since MMR's have not had the same issues that GB has experienced I'm assuming that it's not CGCs playfields. The lighter black was resolved once it was discovered. I don't know why it happened but it's fixed.
Maybe someone with better hearing than me can hear sound issues but I've never noticed it. The 2.1 update fixed some issues and another update is supposed to be in the works
I've talked to the support folks at CGC and it's been a very reliable game. There have been a few issues but the game is very reliable

#89 3 years ago

My MMRLE was delivered over a month ago. I was sweating getting a playfield with light inserts. They look perfect, no clear coat issues and the playfield is beautiful. Much less dimpling than my STLE had at this point. I leave it powered on for hours and have never had any sound issues either. Getting lots of attention from family (young boys & wife) and friends. I'm very happy with my purchase. Fortunately I didn't have a long wait either. Delivered exactly 2 months from check being cashed from PPS. Color update is very nice. Played a nice MM with Color DMD last weekend and was disappointed compared to mine.

-1
#90 3 years ago
Quoted from FlipMyBalls:

it almost sounds like this entire post is wishful thinking and MMR hate even though there are experienced distributors on here vouching for the game. OP do you own an original MM that you paid $18000 for a couple years ago perhaps and hoping to see it rise again because of the supposed low quality remake? I don't see your collection posted to your account. That's the only sense any of this would make as a post to try to discredit authorized dealers with no backup or naming anyone. Using this strange one off example of a supposed beat up MMr as your punching bag saying the machine is not well built when its basically universally accepted that it IS well built and true to the original.
like jgentry said its the #1 game of all time and there are a lot of people including myself that would love to own one and will someday. The demand is there and the value will hold closer to the original than any MM owner is likely comfortable with. Plus where are all these used MMR's? I haven't seen many at all for sale that aren't originals or NIB.

Canadian overseas sales were not the primary focused market for MMrs.
Your economy has not sustained well over the past 2 years to make a lot of people want to buy direct new games.

So turning towards other markets...

The "mom and pop" new distributor mentality is just another way of people "riding the wave" of the current interest in pinball.
It always happens with used machines peak periods regarding interest, and REALLY spiked during the reimport period in 2001-2005, but now PPS/CGC opened the door for a whole new way for unknowing buyers to get burned.
No moderation is required, no licensing, just hang your internet shingle and say "pinball machines for sale".
Credibility is not relevant to new buyers, because they do not know anyone.

Right now they are like weeds, due to the market, I am not even sure PPS/CGC could give a count for the actual dealers, because there are a whole lot more than those that are "authorized".

As the next market stall occurs, they just dry up like a leaf and blow away.
In fact, depend on the nature regarding timing of the next PPS release date, it might not make a difference.
However, that is a topic for another post.

For a collector that understands the difference between the original game and remake, the differences are substantial, not warranting any consideration for the Williams logo. This is beyond the scope of this thread. If an owner does not understand the differences, they can PM before they launch into a purchase, or I can redirect them to collector to assist them before buying. If you are just a player/owner, it makes really no difference which one you buy.

Both games continue to be traded and sold frequently, but the predominance of MMr is much higher in the market.

It is not exclusively based on availability, but the fact that owners are "tapping out" of the hobby, or have to sell for whatever reason whether personal problems or want something different.
Amazing how people have such a short attention span for instant gratification.

At least 5+ MMr machines (all types of versions) have been "flipped" or traded in the great Portland region in less than 6 months.

Originals?
One, as the other did not publicly sell.

If you want a broader canvas, MMrs are literally all over the place.
NIB, HUO, operators, etc.

I cannot speak for hidden private sales between collectors I do not know, which are most with around a 500 mile radius.

Fairly interesting considering there are over 4000 MMs, and 1000s MMrs.
Especially since MMr were "not on the market" in large numbers until the last year.
This has been going on for months, once the majority of owners have received their machines.

I can tell you that if a "hard core" collector has a lot of machines in his collection and they stay or have stayed in the hobby for decades, he/she will not be buying/own an MMr.
They are just not interested.

#92 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

CGC.
LTG : )

Does CGC also make Stern PF's?

#93 3 years ago
Quoted from PW79:

Does CGC also make Stern PF's?

They have in the past. No idea right now.

LTG : )

#94 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

They have in the past. No idea right now.
LTG : )

Got it.

So CGC makes MMr PF's.

CGC made the bad MMr PF's in all likelihood too...

Wonder if CGC made those bad early WOZ PF's too...

If CGC made Stern PF's before then it's possible they are making them for Stern again.

That means ya don't know what title or manufacturer is next to have issues because they all use(d) CGC

Sheesh

#95 3 years ago
Quoted from PW79:

Wonder if CGC made those bad early WOZ PF's too...

No.

Quoted from PW79:

That means ya don't know what title or manufacturer is next to have issues

Since early August the problems seem to have been fixed at Stern.

JJP's are Mirco's, haven't heard of any Hobbit issues.

LTG : )

#96 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Since early August the problems seem to have been fixed at Stern.

Appreciate all the info. Thanks LTG

Gotta say tho Im not convinced the PF's were fixed in early August.

Here's a PF stamped Aug 12th with a written Aug 5th next to it & cabinet stamped Aug 18th with chipping clear & ghosting.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hey-stern-are-you-serious/page/76#post-3315798

#97 3 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

I can tell you that if a "hard core" collector has a lot of machines in his collection and they stay or have stayed in the hobby for decades, he/she will not be buying/own an MMr.
They are just not interested.

I've been collecting for over a decade. I have a lot of machines. I bought/own a MMr. I was interested. I know plenty of others. What do you know that we don't? I've been enjoying my MMr for over a year now. Should I stop enjoying it?

#98 3 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Should I stop enjoying it?

I never said you should.
If you like to play pinball, an MMr is a good option.
If you want to know my observations regarding the potential long term specific aspects of MMr, PM me.
There is more to consider than price or value.

Separately, there are many types of enthusiasts in this hobby.
Players/Owners/Collectors/Restorers are not all equal in terms of either mentality or experience.
When EM owners had options to purchase a SS edition of the same exact machine title, they did not buy it either.

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Gweem's Mods
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