It depends. Working under the assumption that the price is fair to start out with, trying to negotiate down 10% definitely seems reasonable.

The thing is, fair prices are never a hard number, they're always a range, and that range depends on several factors.

Specifics would help us to give advice regarding your specific circumstance. Without it we are really just guessing.

If the guy is asking $1450 for a nice Tomcat and you offer $1200, that is a fair offer even though its more like 16%.

Of course you could be talking a Metallica Pro for $4100, pretty sure an offer for $3690 won't fly….so 10% of what?

collin hit the nail with the term "range"- there is no exact number, and as ovfdfireman stated newer machine often have a tighter range of value from games that been on the market for 30 years. so you dont have a set number or % to work with. but it gets easy after your in the hobbie for awhile to know reasonable when you see it.

my personal thoughts are, if a seller gives a reasonable realistic offer and have taken good care of the pin unit i tend to never even try to talk some one down.

sometimes you come across people that are selling and dont really know, and they seen some restored unit on ebay or some ones that thinks they have a restored unit on ebay, and well its the same named title and about as good cond ? so they just ask too much, or people fishing for someone new or desperate, ect ect... and with these people you tell them why there machine is over valued in your eyes.

on a few occassions i had people with machines that were easy fixes, or they were even a little nicer cond and ive offered them a little extra to get the machine up into my range of value, sometimes they will take some extra $, sometimes ive had them refuse and say hey i got out what i wanted, or i just really want it out of the garage.

actually, its nice being on the hobbie end pin collecting and not the buisness end, if we go over here and there, no big deal. we just have to have a little extra fun somwhere along the line of building the collection it will work out in the end. while a buisness can go broke and always has to think of the bottom line and squezing every last dime on each end.....

Couple hundred is negotiation IMO. Asking to pay half market with no explanation as to why is a donkey punch.
Tire kickers are everywhere I just do not play that game.

A low-ball offer is when you post a 100% working BSD on pinside for $1,750 and someone PMs you with a $200 offer.

When I got started, I would type FS followed by the name of the pin in the search engine on the forums here (e.g. FS Flintstones). With the upper end ratings games, you'll get a gazillion hits dating back a few years. It will give you a good idea of the range of asking prices as well as the trend of asking prices over the years. You can also play detective sometimes and see where someone bought a game and then sold it a year or two later after there was that "market boom."

That's the pinside equivalent of searching sold listings on eBay.

I believe it is all justified really by common sense, Boston biz sales summary (after you take out the 13% eBay/PayPal fees), and knowledge from others. For example: you have to consider everything about the machine (past, current condition, reimport or not, etc) Do not assume that what a nice Non reimport sells for, should equal be the same ammount as an equally nice reimport machine. You know what you spent on said machine, just take more than what you paid (of course in respect to their value) a fully working, shopped TAF should not sell for $4500
But applause to a low baller with that much skill!
Lol

I think in general, $200 won't insult the seller if the price is fair. Also agree percentage won't work. Pisses me off that you have to pay a flat percentage when you take credit cards and PayPal. It should be lowered when the price is higher!

You pay me... And i'll take that pin off your hands.

that happened to me a while back. i've been a little nuts ever since

He was obviously going for free sunflower seeds because nuts are so high.

oh that is just wrong. hurts just to look at.

kind of like

http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=73&picno=51643

If they don't say firm then expect them to come down some unless they have a lot of interest. Some people don't feel comfortable with negotiation. If I say obo I expect someone to start at least lower and go from there. If you make an offer or $3600 on a $4300 ask you are not going to upset anyone but you might get the pin for 4k or the seller will respond on what he will take. I think it would surprise a seller more to get an offer at asking price then one starting lower to begin with having a "obo" tag.

My definition of a "low baller" is someone who never plans on buying the pin unless they steal it. If someone really wants to purchase a pin but comes in low then works to the sellers desired price "shrewd buyer".

A guy offered me 40% less then my asking price, yeah, I say that is a low ball. No thank you.

I'm not the type to do wrong, so, I won't do this. but if this same guy, does it to someone else, watch out.

He is likely to drives 3 hours to get his 'deal', find the wife meets him at the door with the, "sorry, sold to someone else".

Karma wields a double edge sword.

I believe.....there is no general rule to follow. Pay fair market value, if it needs work pay a bit less. Treat people fairly, what comes around goes around.

Go get you a mr pinball price guide this will be a great start/guide as to whats fair. It's not 100% but very helpful when you are buying or selling

offer what you want. seller can say yes or no. simple as that. when i get a low offer i say thanks but no thanks. i tell them i don't want to take that kind of hit. i never get insulted and never go off on the person either. cash talks and bs walks. knowing a buyer has that offer in cash, lives close by, and the sale will be really quick, smooth, and easy can sway the seller to take it if they are in a jam and need to sell asap or they don't want the hassle of dealing with tire kickers. i have taken a hit on games to get them out the door quick and easy.

Ask Oropuro, he would know a lot about the lowball.

An offer of 40% less than some of the asking prices I see would be well within range of fair market value.

Totally depends on circumstances and only something experience can teach.
At Allentown a guy walked up to us in the flea market and offered $2500 for a TAF. Was he lowballing? Well it seemed like he just wasn't aware of the current pricing.
On the other hand, when I had my super nice AFM for sale last year and I had someone offer me $3k for it, that was lowballing.

You just don't know. Sometimes sellers price high because they know they are going to get talked down. Sometimes sellers price their one and final price and don't want to budge one cent.

I was offered $50 for a jokerz! I had for sale for $1000. Now that's a lowball.

I always thought OBO means they will take the highest bidder.

There is an art to "low balling" if you really want to start a negotiation.

If you are polite and show respect, you will typically actually engage the seller in a discussion that could evolve into a negotiation.

If you are rude, pushy, nasty and/or mean, you will typically get an argument or even worse ignored.

In the past, I have often made "low ball" offers because I felt that I could get the game for cheaper if I tried.

My best example is from May 2007. There was a local CL ad for a Bally Fireball. The seller wanted $1,600 but did not provide adequate pictures in the ad.

I sent them an email stating that I was interested at $800. I also stated that I understood that my offer was significantly lower than their asking price and I did not really expect them to entertain my offer now. However, should circumstances change and they decide to consider lower offers, I asked them to consider mine.

I wished them well and left my phone number.

I received a pleasant email stating that my offer was lower than they cared to accept, but they thanked me for sending them the offer.

About 2 weeks later, I get a phone call at 8am on a Saturday asking me if I was still interested in the game. I told her that I was, but my offer was still $800. The owner told me that I could have it for $800 if I could pick it up by Noon. I told her that I would be right over! So I ended up with a working Bally Fireball for $800.

Some may decry my "low ball" offer since it was 50% less than the seller's asking price. But in the end, it was the seller who made a decision regarding their sales price.

I have used this approach many times. Only a few worked, but the few that did were well worth the attempt.

Marcus

Most people misuse this badly. What they really mean isn't "Or best off wins and takes it" - it's more like "or best offer above the floor price I have in my head as acceptable, whether it's over my original asking price or not"

This is spot on. A lot of people like to sell their 8k AFM with massive PF wear etc cause they see them go for 8k. So, maybe 5k is a fair offer and thats 3k less

Exactly!

I learned the hard way that someone can ask for $1000, you talk them down to $500 yet still get a machine only worth $400. Doing research on what the machine is truly worth in the condition it is in and how much you want to pay for it is crucial.

I find that lowballing is dependent on the seller. If its a collector or a router they may be less likely to budge on price. Someone who just has one pin in their house and wants it gone because they never use it is more likely to budge on price. I find that its all about feeling out who you are dealing with first and the circumstances of why they are selling. My best deal was done by feeling out the seller and offering a low number just to see if they would counter offer or accept it. Due to his urgent circumstance to sell the pin he took my initial low offer.
Best of luck!

waits...

There is a Flash Gordon up right now and its listed at $1000. Now I'm pretty sure that its not a time capsule so $1000 is not gonna happen. That machine goes for about $600 in good shape by me. No pics posted with it so I'm guessing its not in good shape either. Would it be lowballing to throw out a $300 offer and let it sit? I don't think it is. I don't think it matters what they want for the machine, its still a matter of what someone is willing to pay for a machine. The problem is in the last few years especially people think that whatever machine they have sitting in the corner of the basement that doesn't work and needs a complete rebuild is worth $5000. Call it lowballing , cheap, frugal, whatever...but when I have to put $300 into a $500-$600 machine, I'm going to offer $300 and let the chips fall where they may.

the big thing, (imo) is building an awsome collection of machines& not searching the earth for desperate sellers- not many deals will pull through at 300$. how many machines would you sell for 3? you can double that and have a chance of not driving home empty handed.

Agreed........any Flash Gordon I would buy at $300........I would still buy one at $600 also.
People that have them tend to keep them