(Topic ID: 154059)

How "Limited" Should Limited Editions Be?


By beelzeboob

3 years ago



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  • 74 posts
  • 44 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by HOOKED
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    Topic poll

    “How many machines should Limited Editions be limited to?”

    • 100 23 votes
      13%
    • 300 48 votes
      26%
    • 500 78 votes
      43%
    • 700 7 votes
      4%
    • 1000+ 26 votes
      14%

    (182 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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    There are 74 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 3 years ago

    With Ghostbusters LE about to be announced (presumably this week), and Hobbit shipping out concurrently, I'm interested in what peoples' takes are how many machines a limited edition run should really allow for.

    I think most can agree that JJP overdoes it with 1000 or 1500, and GOT LE recently got criticized for allowing 700 to be made.

    So what does Pinside think? Vote now and discuss...

    My personal opinion is that no more than 500 should be made, and perhaps even that's too many. But if there's money to be made, the LE numbers will continue to go up, I'm sure.

    EDIT: I'm sure ForceFlow will tell me if this has been done before, but if it has, I can't find it (and I don't think there was ever a poll done).

    #2 3 years ago

    Hmmm, I'd say only 100

    If a full run of a game is 3000 units, then the LE should be less than 10% of the total

    #3 3 years ago

    I would prefer 500 or less.

    #4 3 years ago

    As many as the market will buy. Everything's "limited" anyway - TZ, TAF... all of 'em end up being limited.

    If a manufacturer feels they need to sell different models, fine, differentiate them with the trim and art packages, or maybe the warranty (ha!) But to slap a CNC'd "x of xx" plaque on the cab and featuring that as a bullet point to buyers is pretty lame. Let the features dictate the desirability of a machine, not an artificially-constrained supply.

    #5 3 years ago

    [I like the names they have for cars.] Like, no baron has ever owned a LeBaron. Or the Ford LTD. "LTD." Limited. It's a "limited" edition...what did they make, fifty million of those? "Yes, it's 'limited' to the number we can sell.

    -Jerry Seinfeld

    #6 3 years ago

    100, so long as there's a premium. The LE upgrades aren't worth $1k+, they don't even come with shakers anymore, so at least make the little plaque it comes with somewhat special.

    #7 3 years ago

    None....I think it's rediculious that they are making a huge profit so grown azz men can show how big there balls/wallet is.............Joey

    #8 3 years ago

    I'd say 750 max but keep the price within reach of the Prem.
    Say they add 500 in actual cost over the Prem ....make the LE $1000ish more.
    I believe Stern is at this margin now street pricing so make MSRP $1500-1750 more.
    If it were my company I would release Pro - Prem then gauge interest and launch LEs...like TAF and Fire.
    Stern is large enough to do this and take Pre-order non refundable deposits of say $500.

    This way they know serious demand and can gauge overage interest thus adjust production accordingly.
    They would pre sell 1/2 and complete the adjusted run with a sell out the LE's quickly and the cost would be covered.

    #9 3 years ago

    If you run more than say 300 or even 500 of a so called limited edition they are not really "limited" they are just a pin you pay way more for for a different art package. I also agree they should disclose the artwork for the premium immediately on announcement as those often times have better art work than there limited editions

    11
    #10 3 years ago

    All Limited Edition means is that they will make a certain number and never make any more. It doesn't mean (despite what many people think) "Low Volume Edition". Limited Edition is simply a marketing ploy to entice consumers to get on board as soon as possible because "when there gone there gone". The challenge for the company is to find that sweet spot - make just enough that they sell like hotcakes and just a few left over. It is a great marketing strategy quite simply because it works. Unfortunately, the side effect for a hobby like ours is that it drives speculative buyers and in turn drives up prices. However, this price increase has allowed Stern to stay in business and make some great pins recently.

    Unfortunately most of us aren't rich enough to own them all - but that's capitalism baby!

    15
    #11 3 years ago

    As long as they can make unlimited production runs with minor changes, limited edition is a psychological game for a gullible public.

    #12 3 years ago
    Quoted from venom112:

    If you run more than say 300 or even 500 of a so called limited edition they are not really "limited" they are just a pin you pay way more for for a different art package. I also agree they should disclose the artwork for the premium immediately on announcement as those often times have better art work than there limited editions

    How many TAF LE's are there 1k?
    I know we live in different pinball times but that would be my reference point.
    The low volume of say Avatar 250 reflects the times and Tron 500? or 400?...we are now in a different pinball time again.
    If its a hot title I say let demand determine the total to be produced.
    This would be great of us and Stern...Stern sells two machines in most cases to one buyer ...secondary market prices stay reasonable.
    Seems a win win to me.

    #13 3 years ago
    Quoted from PBFan:

    All Limited Edition means is that they will make a certain number and never make any more. It doesn't mean (despite what many people think) "Low Volume Edition". Limited Edition is simply a marketing ploy to entice consumers to get on board as soon as possible because "when there gone there gone". The challenge for the company is to find that sweet spot - make just enough that they sell like hotcakes and just a few left over. It is a great marketing strategy quite simply because it works. Unfortunately, the side effect for a hobby like ours is that it drives speculative buyers and in turn drives up prices. However, this price increase has allowed Stern to stay in business and make some great pins recently.
    Unfortunately most of us aren't rich enough to own them all - but that's capitalism baby!

    Exactly - and now in most cases with toys/collectibles/and the such, they don't even do the "certain number" anymore, as the number isn't certain. It's just however many they can sell until they decide to stop making them, yet they can still market them as "Limited Edition". If you think about it - every single Lego set ever sold should be "Limited Edition" because eventually they will stop making them. Let's hope that strategy doesn't spread to pinball - at least they are still going with a hard number.

    #14 3 years ago
    Quoted from Mr68:

    As long as they can make unlimited production runs with minor changes, limited edition is a psychological game for a gullible public.

    Otherwise known ask JJP model ...sorry could not resist.

    #15 3 years ago
    Quoted from HOOKED:

    Otherwise known ask JJP model ...sorry could not resist.

    I believe Stern set the standard but sure, JJP and Heighway Pinball do it also.

    #16 3 years ago

    EVERYTHING is limited.

    As long as they disclose the numbers, I don't think there is a good answer as to "how limited is limited?"

    #17 3 years ago

    Whatever they want to make and then when they cut it off, they stop making it.

    There is NO benefit to a business to make 250 of a LE so that the price can explode on the secondary market and it is worth 150% what people paid for it. The business that was selling it would rather make that money.

    There is NO benefit to a business to make 1000 of an LE if the market only wants 250. It causes them to sit on unsold inventory and the price drops for everyone.

    The best business plan is to make as close as possible to exactly what the market wants, and then that's it. Machines hold their value, not dropping like crazy (Transformers LE) or rising like made (Tron LE), which in turn gives collectors the sense that they are good to purchase more in the future. The business makes the most money possible.

    I'm all for everyone making the most money on these. Personally, I like the JJP / Spooky model the best because I don't like there being two versions of what is more or less the same game to try to choose from. Having said that, I kind of feel like the Stern model gives us an extra couple machines a year, so that isn't bad either. More pinball = more better

    #18 3 years ago

    Then why call it limited if you make a thousand I vote to scrap the limited model and make 2 models pro and premium. The limited is for collectors yes but they get nothing but a different art package with the limited edition. Why call it a limited edition if you make a thousand it's not like anyone is getting left out. They make a premium in unlimited numbers dictated by demand and it is full featured.

    #19 3 years ago

    I personally have zero interest in the LE model. You won't even start to impress me by listing all the LE you have. On the other hand, show me how you found your Charlie's Angels EM and that's a story I would like to hear.

    Does not mean I don't understand the logic behind the LE model. It's a marketing tool that 1) creates artificial rarity on a product 2) gives the buyer the feeling he belongs to an exclusive club (VIP pass, Gold/platinum card...).

    As stated above, this model may be lame... but it works. It might have contributed to save Stern during the very bad years so I will not blame them for using it! And no surprise JJP, Heighway and even Spooky also embraced it.

    Number of LE? I doubt Stern has a magic number. It depends on the licence; I think they try to second guess the market based on feedback from distributors and... from Pinside may be?

    #20 3 years ago

    Iron Maiden LE should have 666

    AC/DC Bon Scott LE should be 6 (for the number of years he was in the band)

    Michael Jackson LE should be 3 (<horribly inappropriate comment removed by moderator>

    Jimi Hendrix LE should be 50 (anniversary of Are You Experienced)

    The numbers should have some significance.

    #21 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    <edited by pinside staff>

    The Beelzeboob LE would be the same, and for the same reason.

    #22 3 years ago

    I'd say there really doesn't need to be an arbitrary limit. If people are still lining up to buy them, make as many as there are buyers for them.

    It's not like stern really releases production numbers anyway.

    The more pins out there, the better. Any sale is a good sale.

    #23 3 years ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    The Beelzeboob LE would be the same, and for the same reason.

    Too bad MJ died, you could have slipped into his bed at night and gave him his first consensual sensual experience.

    #24 3 years ago
    Quoted from PBFan:

    All Limited Edition means is that they will make a certain number and never make any more

    Except for the guy that made 1000 green LEs ... Get them now, there will never be another chance ... Oh wait, here's 1000 red LEs.

    rd

    #25 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Too bad MJ died, you could have slipped into his bed at night and gave him his first consensual sensual experience.

    That's exactly what happened with me and Bill Cosby, from what I remember.

    #26 3 years ago

    I would prefer 100-300 true LE's with different art and some cosmetic exclusives that are not resold in anyway. If they want to run a premium style model with the same play features as the LE that would be great and those should not be limited. I love my GOTLE but there is probably as many of them as there will be premiums, not exactly an LE.

    #27 3 years ago

    Very interesting thread cause I was about to make a comment similar to that on the ghostbusters thread.

    If they sell 2000 premiums of a model plus 500 LE of that same theme, how is it limited ?

    That means 1 machine out ouf 5 with the exact same toys is an LE

    I don't find it very scarce. Not to pay $2000 more.

    I understand that Stern will produce as many LE as possible if they can get of few millions out of us. Also understand it's not a good investment to produce only 100 of a standard product on a chain of production.

    But the principle should be to sell your volume in Premiums and Pros and then with all the profit made your compliment and give an add on with a rare limited version of what people know and love to have a little more $$$$ and value to the community.

    They are doing it the other way around but it gives them way less risk and way more $$$$$

    But to me it doesnt have the numbers to make it $2000 more special

    I just don't understand the artificial and speculative value here

    #28 3 years ago

    In today's pinball world 500 of anything is not "limited" but I'd say Stern has the right number currently for the LE gimmick.

    If you put out a premium with a few cosmetic differences only then it's a matter of time before the novelty wears off.

    As time goes by, nobody cares. Look at Lotr

    #29 3 years ago

    They should be so limited that without an inside connection you can't get one unless you're willing to pay an extremely heavy mark-up a la Spooky. So basically 75 or less

    #30 3 years ago

    500 absolute max. Any more than this and it just isn't limited.

    400 would be my number.

    But, obviously a business will sell as many as people will buy until people don't!

    #31 3 years ago

    All LEs should be just like Star Trek. Not like KISS, which the premium and LE are practically identical.

    #32 3 years ago

    I was pretty impressed with Stern making the GoT LE with an upper playfield. That is a significant difference over the Pro/Premium way beyond cosmetic. But then it occurred to me that Stern will eventually announce a Pro/Premium model with the upper playfield after the dust has settled. Bye bye a true LE.

    I look forward to whatever fancy name they come up with for that model.

    FYI: The upper playfield Pro/Premium is speculation on my part but I believe it will happen. I'm unaware of any announcement or rumors to date.

    And for the record, I don't fault Stern in doing this and can admire their business creativity.

    ***Edit: I should have said Premium instead of Pro.

    #33 3 years ago

    Blow up the LE model.

    #34 3 years ago
    Quoted from Trekkie1978:

    All LEs should be just like Star Trek. Not like KISS, which the premium and LE are practically identical.

    Amen. Lighting inside and outside the lower cab...very cool.
    GB LE should have this too IMO.

    #35 3 years ago
    Quoted from Mr68:

    I was pretty impressed with Stern making the GoT LE with an upper playfield. That is a significant difference over the Pro way beyond cosmetic. But then it occurred to me that Stern will eventually announce a Pro model with the upper playfield after the dust has settled. Bye bye a true LE.
    I look forward to whatever fancy name they come up with for that model.
    FYI: The upper playfield Pro is speculation on my part but I believe it will happen. .

    This to me would be interesting but for it to work as a "factory mod" there would already be connectors built into the Pro machine harness.
    Software is easy ...harness would have had to have been truly pre planned.

    #36 3 years ago
    Quoted from HOOKED:

    This to me would be interesting but for it to work as a "factory mod" there would already be connectors built into the Pro machine harness.
    Software is easy ...harness would have had to have been truly pre planned.

    I'm not sure what you mean. Or what I'm missing... What I'm saying is, Stern will make more of the LE machines as they exist now, wire harness and all. They'll simply change the artwork, give it a fancy name and do as big a run as they can.

    #37 3 years ago

    I don't care how many they make. Maybe they should call it Special Edition instead of Limited. Everybody that wants one should get one and should be able to do so as long as the manufacturer cares to build them. I'd like to see an end to manufactured scarcity and pressure buying to prevent missing out.

    #38 3 years ago

    Easily the most debated and non definitive " correct" answer on Pinside.....I think I voted 500, but as long as the " limited" means "never to be produced like that again, EVER" then the # is a bit irrelevant. And saying having a " limited" edition of anything is wrong? Completely irrational from both a manufacturer and end user standpoint.

    #39 3 years ago

    There can be only one :
    Sacre_bleu!_(resized).jpg

    #40 3 years ago

    Hey. Le King. Would you mind getting the fuck out of the fast lane ? Thanks.

    #41 3 years ago

    I think it depends on the theme and the popularity.

    For popular theme-799(maybe two versions): then there are plenty to go around and price doesn't get jacked up.
    400 Domestic 399 Overseas
    For mediocre theme-399
    For meh theme-250 or less

    #42 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Iron Maiden LE should have 666

    Could you imagine the price of #666
    I would give at least a grand extra just for that number. There would probably be an auction just for that number!

    #43 3 years ago

    That would be Bruce's.
    C'mon man.

    #44 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    ...
    Michael Jackson LE should be 3 (the length of a 9 year old's penis)...

    Why does Michael Jackson like twenty five year olds?

    Because there are twenty of them.

    #45 3 years ago

    Tough question to answer. For the seller, the main goal is to sell all of them. For the buyer, if you have one, the number should be low. If you want one and can't easily get it, the number should be higher. I see no reason why this would ever be standardized.

    Full Disclosure here: I once wrote to Stern suggesting they sell the full featured model in unlimited numbers and simply not call it limited (I don't consider "premium" models full featured for purposes of this discussion).

    To answer the question: if you are going to call it limited, I would say keep it under 10% of total games produced.

    #46 3 years ago
    Quoted from arcademojo:

    Could you imagine the price of #666
    I would give at least a grand extra just for that number. There would probably be an auction just for that number!

    You couldn't pay me an extra $1,000,000 to own that number.

    #47 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinmister:

    I think it depends on the theme and the popularity.
    For popular theme-799(maybe two versions): then there are plenty to go around and price doesn't get jacked up.
    400 Domestic 399 Overseas
    For mediocre theme-399
    For meh theme-250 or less

    I was going to make this point. TWD LE was 600 LE total, supposedly people noted that around 250 were ending up in the US market, the rest other markets. Seems pretty limited to me. That is less than 1 machine per million people in the US.

    #48 3 years ago
    Quoted from Damonator:

    You couldn't pay me an extra $1,000,000 to own that number.

    I call bullshit. Put it in the corner, nobody would know. Except you and Lucifer.

    #49 3 years ago
    Quoted from EvanDickson:

    Why does Michael Jackson like twenty five year olds?
    Because there are twenty of them.

    th_(resized).jpg

    #50 3 years ago
    Quoted from dzoomer:

    I was going to make this point. TWD LE was 600 LE total, supposedly people noted that around 250 were ending up in the US market, the rest other markets. Seems pretty limited to me. That is less than 1 machine per million people in the US.

    When you put it that way, it does sound more limited and special feeling.

    If "limited" is truly limited, and not just a marketing buzzword, then I think a very low number, like 25 or 50. If it's just a buzzword, then I think they should get a more appropriate word and sell as many as the market will bear.

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