(Topic ID: 214712)

How I'd fix the JJP POTC disc issue


By Aurich

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 82 posts
  • 54 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Aurich
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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63
#1 1 year ago

I know everyone is posting their "here's what I would have done" fixes, but if you'll indulge me in mine since I took the time to animate a stupid demo:

A single disc has been done a ton of times, there's nothing unique about it. So as long as JJP is going to 'already been done' I would have switched to magnets instead. Same idea, random ball action, put in 3 or whatever, get it bouncing around a bit, just like the original disc transitions. Might work better than the single disc, might be around the same, can't imagine it would be all that worse. We've seen it before (Addams etc), it works.

Keep the exact same art that people already liked, with the 3 concentric discs, but — this the key — keep the lit inserts. It sucks to lose the inserts. Who wants to give up playfield lights? They look cool, they were interactive and one of the features. Keep them.

Then what you do is while the magnets are active, you light the inserts quickly one at a time in a circle around each disc, so you get a 'virtual spin' effect. Then they can still stop and land on something, just won't line up the same. Keep the new animation on the backglass LCD,it looks really nice, and is what anyone watching you play will see. You can read it off the playfield by inserts, or look up for the show if you care to see everything line up.

Magnets aren't anything new, it's true, but neither is the single disc, so seems equal enough to me, and you still get the inserts, the spinning effect could still look cool, and it would keep the original spirit of the 3 ring map still. And if you've never owned a magnet in playfield game it's a fun thing to have, and it's fun for guests to see the ball suddenly change course 'magically'.

I was never gonna pay for this game no matter what, but if I was a buyer I think I'd be more okay with that switch. It's not as cool, granted, but it feels less like taking something away. I'd take the virtual spin with magnets over discs that were breaking making the game unplayable, or that were jerky or didn't work great and were annoying.

My two cents. It's not a huge project to engineer some magnets, they already have the inserts. Not trying to handwave changing anything as easy, but it's a a well explored topic by now, not need to invent new mechs or mess with motors etc. That's what I'd do at least.

Here's a quick gif of the idea:

potc-disc-lights.gif

#2 1 year ago

Love that idea! That would be a really cool solution and very creative! Great thoughts Mr!

#3 1 year ago

....or you could learn from your own (Jacks) past and build a prototype feature, test it for a few months, THEN add it to a game and show it off

prototype and test,
prototype and test,
prototype and test.

#4 1 year ago

Yep, love it, Great idea!

#5 1 year ago

With proper fade design on the lights they can make that spin around like a comet with a fading tail and look really, really good. They can accelerate the spin, alternate them, reverse them, all sorts of things. Could actually be more interesting visually than the three discs.

#6 1 year ago

Aurich,
This is a fantastic idea, and the gif is f****** awesome. Hopefully somebody at JJP sees this thread.

#7 1 year ago

nailed it!

#8 1 year ago

At the jjp price point they should just make it work. The test games with original Mech will be gold. Way cooler gimmick than some of the other costed out stuff like earthshaker or Dr who.

#9 1 year ago

Aesthetically it’s the removal of the insert lights that Id find hardest to live without , add a cluster of under playfield magnets along with some programming magic and that’s one very clever piece of containment

#10 1 year ago

Great idea . I would have different colors for each ring.

#11 1 year ago

i could live with that, but the playfield have to be "whole", i mean a one piece playfield and not the actual one with the 3 disks "glued" together to fill the void between them

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from Raknitz:

i could live with that, but the playfield have to be "whole", i mean a one piece playfield and not the actual one with the 3 disks "glued" together to fille the void between them

That’s assuming they don’t allready have a bunch of play fields with big circular holes cut into them ?

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from drinkduffbeers:

That’s assuming they don’t allready have a bunch of play fields with big circular holes cut into them ?

well to be honest, i m afraid it s the case, and so i wont be happy with anything they could come up with beside the original 3 disks fixed

-24
#14 1 year ago

Die thread die. Better suggestions on the numerous threads already.

#15 1 year ago

Great idea ... way better than the single disk with no lights. BUT .... if you place LEC pcb´s under the disc, where to mount the magnets ?! You can have a insertlight or a magnet ... both is not possible.

#16 1 year ago

Greats ideas!

Obviously, the replacement of the 3 rings for a single disk is a downgrade in 'ball action' that the feature could have imparted on the ball. To make up for that downgrade I think they should add more magnets in that area to add more action to compensate.

You could go even to the extreme of having no moving disk and just many magnets that whip the ball around. Or one disk with magnets on the disk or near the outside of disk.

What about three concentric rings spinning under the playfield each with magnets on them!

The more I think about it, maybe having no spinning disk and just some great art there would be best and impart action on the ball using magnets underneath (either spinning underneath or not) would be best now.

#17 1 year ago

It’s a nice idea, but I’d imagine it’s not that easy to just add magnets, wiring, placement, holes already cut in the playfields for the discs, significant code revision, new single disc, etc.

#18 1 year ago

This is a great idea aurich. Love it.

Some people are saying they would wait 6-months for JJP to get the "disc right". Pretty sure JJP needs to keep the line moving. They need to sell machines. 6-months is probably not an option.

#19 1 year ago

Yeah, basically the BK2K "Lightning Wheel" with magnets. That'd be fun!

#20 1 year ago

Twenty-five electro-magnets and a custom fixture to hold them, plus drive circuitry and a larger power supply. Would deposit/pre-pay customers be willing to pay a surcharge for something like this?

#21 1 year ago

I would wait 2 years to get it right. Get it right is what JJP is all about not cut and rush.

#22 1 year ago

Deff like your idea! But why not just get the mech right. I think the majority of buyers will wait patiently.

#23 1 year ago

It's too late in the cycle to re-engineer something. They should just keep the 3 discs without spinning and use the inserts. No magnets. It would look much better than the proposed art changes/big disc. Supplant this with the proposed wheel animation on the scene and call it a day. You'll lose orders but probably half as much as using the one disc with artwork that nobody seems to like. It's unfortunate, but salvage most of the hard work put into it.

#24 1 year ago

Best idea yet, even without magnets. Better than the large disk for sure and ties in better with the animations they have on the LCD.

#25 1 year ago

There wouldn’t be space for all those leds plus magnets. For that matter, the magets couldn’t be done in a circular fashion to match your lighting so I don’t really get it.

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Twenty-five electro-magnets and a custom fixture to hold them, plus drive circuitry and a larger power supply. Would deposit/pre-pay customers be willing to pay a surcharge for something like this?

I think, you've misunderstood his proposal.

Quoted from tbanthony:

For that matter, the magnets couldn’t be done in a circular fashion to match your lighting so I don’t really get it.

His magnets don't need to match the lighting, he's just saying put some magnets in the area somewhere for some random ball movement.

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

They should just keep the 3 discs without spinning and use the inserts. No magnets.

This is also a good extension of Aurich's idea to save time and money if they already have playfields cut with the hole. One large static plastic disc, using the original artwork, with inserts in the same place as before. Make it removable for easy servicing if you like. Keith codes the inserts to spin virtually, probably a snap for a guru like him. Boom! Problem solved. Pinside applauds their decision to put the inserts back into the game, everyone forgets anything was taken out, pre-orders flood back in and Aurich goes to sleep at night knowing he's saved yet another JJP game...

#28 1 year ago

I like this idea as well. I am in on the magnets for sure as it could add some interesting dynamics in modes.

#29 1 year ago

I love Pinside!

#30 1 year ago

Excellent idea, thanks for proposing this. A giant single disk in the middle of the playfield doesn't come across as something JJP would do in my opinion, this idea does though.

#31 1 year ago
Quoted from Lermods:

It’s a nice idea, but I’d imagine it’s not that easy to just add magnets, wiring, placement, holes already cut in the playfields for the discs, significant code revision, new single disc, etc.

Unfortunately that is a JJP problem. They really need to step back and come up with something better.

#32 1 year ago

The problem I see with this suggestion...

If magnets similar to TAF were installed...those magnets are installed into pockets on the underside of the PF. Inserts and magnets can't use the same real estate. The magnet cores would have to be extremely small. The magnet cores on TAF are around 3 inches in diameter.....That a lot of playfield real estate.

#33 1 year ago
Quoted from woody76:

Unfortunately that is a JJP problem. They really need to step back and come up with something better.

Looks like the decision is final however. The artwork will change I'm sure because what Eric showed in that video looks like absolute garbage. Now it's just up to everyone to decide if it's still worth it. This thread is really just to amuse ourselves. Nothing will come of it.

#34 1 year ago

Neat idea but not going to look good imo. It would be obvious you are trying to fake it and don't think that comes off good on a premium pin. A lcd with tons of graphics all during game would be far better. You could not only do a spinning wheel virtually but other animations or instructions for different modes.

#35 1 year ago

I like this idea Aurich but I love magnets. I think that is why I like DI so much.

The only other solution in my eyes if they can't do original idea or possibly this magnet idea is to go lcd screen and animate it all if they are keeping $9500 price tag

#36 1 year ago

Pretty sweet idea Aurich. Personally, as a potential buyer, I want to see spinning disks (plural). Im tired of magnets in front of the flippers.

The question I have for the designers is; is it a coding issue with disks and rewards or is it a physical issue, or both? Is it an issue with the spinning disks being analog driven and stopping them on the gun for rewards? Maybe all that needs to be done is to simplify the original design. Instead of 3 analog rotating disks, make them 3 digital (one speed) disks and get rid of the inserts. Then, they can either show map rewards virtually on the display; or do something else that wouldn't be a coding nightmare (if that's the issue), and maybe when you hit the M-A-P targets, one disk starts rotating which increases scoring 5%; spell M-A-P again and get the 2nd disk for 10% scoring, and then the 3rd for 15% scoring.

#37 1 year ago

Eric will be on Kanedas pimball podcast tomorrow so I'm sure we will hear why things with the original 3x spinning disk didn't work out.

If a single disk is to remain I say at least make the decal look like a maelstrom and have it activate when the diverter on the maelstrom ramp activates.

14
#38 1 year ago

I like the idea Aurich. But even more simple, why not keep the current mechanism, or something very similar, and just make it less active?

Instead of “spinners” that will ultimately wear out, treat the 3 moving, concentric circles as a combination lock. That way you still have the feature of different insert alignments giving rewards. The circles still move, but only sometimes, and slowly, not violently spinning.

Better yet, make their movements correspond to player shots on the playfield. Each circle moves in a specified direction and number of places based on what the ball hits, putting the player in control of the rewards he receives from the “combination”. The player would have to initiate a sequence to activate the rings, and once the rings are aligned properly, the player hits something to cash in the reward.

The rings will reset back to where they were before, for each players turn, so one player doesn’t disrupt the progress of another.

This takes away the magnet aspect though.

#39 1 year ago

That with magnets and I will stay on board

#40 1 year ago
Quoted from DerGoetz:

That with magnets and I will stay on board

If your response was to me, I’m sure magnets could be added somewhere to add in some random ball movement.

#41 1 year ago

This reminds me of the early Funhouse prototype clock mechanism in the center of the playfield. Williams replaced it with a series of inserts supposedly because it was over engineered and unreliable.

#42 1 year ago

how about 1 spinner and tons of magnets? prob still create the same effect.

#43 1 year ago

JJP needs to have the confidence to make a decision and go with it.
You don’t see any other Pinball manufacturer have pinsiders influence Pinball design.

#44 1 year ago
Quoted from Guinnesstime:

This is a great idea aurich. Love it.
Some people are saying they would wait 6-months for JJP to get the "disc right". Pretty sure JJP needs to keep the line moving. They need to sell machines. 6-months is probably not an option.

Not when the entire company is riding in POTC being their make it or break it game. The bleeding is getting bad, real bad.

#45 1 year ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I know everyone is posting their "here's what I would have done" fixes, but if you'll indulge me in mine since I took the time to animate a stupid demo:
A single disc has been done a ton of times, there's nothing unique about it. So as long as JJP is going to 'already been done' I would have switched to magnets instead. Same idea, random ball action, put in 3 or whatever, get it bouncing around a bit, just like the original disc transitions. Might work better than the single disc, might be around the same, can't imagine it would be all that worse. We've seen it before (Addams etc), it works.
Keep the exact same art that people already liked, with the 3 concentric discs, but — this the key — keep the lit inserts. It sucks to lose the inserts. Who wants to give up playfield lights? They look cool, they were interactive and one of the features. Keep them.
Then what you do is while the magnets are active, you light the inserts quickly one at a time in a circle around each disc, so you get a 'virtual spin' effect. Then they can still stop and land on something, just won't line up the same. Keep the new animation on the backglass LCD,it looks really nice, and is what anyone watching you play will see. You can read it off the playfield by inserts, or look up for the show if you care to see everything line up.
Magnets aren't anything new, it's true, but neither is the single disc, so seems equal enough to me, and you still get the inserts, the spinning effect could still look cool, and it would keep the original spirit of the 3 ring map still. And if you've never owned a magnet in playfield game it's a fun thing to have, and it's fun for guests to see the ball suddenly change course 'magically'.
I was never gonna pay for this game no matter what, but if I was a buyer I think I'd be more okay with that switch. It's not as cool, granted, but it feels less like taking something away. I'd take the virtual spin with magnets over discs that were breaking making the game unplayable, or that were jerky or didn't work great and were annoying.
My two cents. It's not a huge project to engineer some magnets, they already have the inserts. Not trying to handwave changing anything as easy, but it's a a well explored topic by now, not need to invent new mechs or mess with motors etc. That's what I'd do at least.
Here's a quick gif of the idea:

Awesome idea, but not really physically possible. There a reason games wth magnets are devoid of inserts in those areas. There’s no room for anything but the magnet coil and core there and it’s flush with the pf, meaning nothing else can go there. That’s why that mech was so effing cool! It spun AND had the inserts! Such a shame.

#46 1 year ago

Make it an underplayfield

#47 1 year ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

Not when the entire company is riding in POTC being their make it or break it game. The bleeding is getting bad, real bad.

The bleeding will be worse with a half assed machine.

They are going to lose a large number of sales if they don’t correct their course!

#48 1 year ago
Quoted from Jackontherocks:

Make it an underplayfield

Davey Jones locker or Davey Jones ship that emerges from the depths as a bash toy.

#49 1 year ago

This is exactly how I imagined a fix, magnets and inserts for the unique awards system.

Sadly with the current JJP suggested change to the discs I will no longer be buying the game.

JJP need to review their options.

15
#50 1 year ago

Go to 5:50. Claims thousands of games with countless hours and proven very reliable.
Lots of questions...

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