(Topic ID: 316552)

How does a score motor operate?

By proraly

1 year ago


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Topic Stats

  • 17 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by proraly
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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Linked Games

  • Rio Playmatic, 1977

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#1 1 year ago

I am trying to confirm how I think a score motor operates. I believe that if a switch on the score motor is supposed to be normally open, that is its state when it is in the trough of the motor, and when it is on the cam (not in the trough), it should be in the opposite state. Is my thinking correct?

If my thinking is correct, and I disconnect the switch stack from the motor, then the switches should be in their trough state, and if I cycle the switches, by pressing on the cam follower, they should go to the opposite state. Is this also correct?

The reason I am asking is because my score motor runs continuously, and several switches are opposite the state that the schematic says they should be in (mostly, closed when they should be open). I want to adjust the switches, but need confirmation on my thinking before I do so.

This is my first game, and I don't want to screw it up when it (mostly) runs.

#2 1 year ago

The score motor is the very last thing you should ever do adjustments on when troubleshooting. Especially if you don’t know what you are doing, (first game), you will open up a can of worms that you will never resolve.

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from proraly:

I am trying to confirm how I think a score motor operates. I believe that if a switch on the score motor is supposed to be normally open, that is its state when it is in the trough of the motor, and when it is on the cam (not in the trough), it should be in the opposite state. Is my thinking correct?
If my thinking is correct, and I disconnect the switch stack from the motor, then the switches should be in their trough state, and if I cycle the switches, by pressing on the cam follower, they should go to the opposite state. Is this also correct?
The reason I am asking is because my score motor runs continuously, and several switches are opposite the state that the schematic says they should be in (mostly, closed when they should be open). I want to adjust the switches, but need confirmation on my thinking before I do so.
This is my first game, and I don't want to screw it up when it (mostly) runs.

So for EM games, a switch that is normally open will close when the motor runs. It will become energized when the cam rotates the trough or notch around. Some switches are normally closed and open in the same way, thus breaking the circuit and causing the motor/scoring to stop.

It sounds like you might have a stuck switch somewhere else on the game. I would check all those first. Some games have a metal stiffening blade between the leaves of the switch that could be causing a short. Check for that too. Also, please let us know the game and post pics of the motor and schematics to help better diagnose the problem. Info on how many points are being scored is also very helpful. I wouldn’t worry too much about the motor as long as there aren’t any coils locked on.

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from proraly:

The reason I am asking is because my score motor runs continuously

Figure this problem out first. It rarely has anything to do with a switch on the actual motor itself.

Read this for starters.

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#motor

#5 1 year ago

A very first, quick, and simple test you could do is manually set all the score reels to zero with the game off, then try to start the game. Chances are there will be no change in behavior, but all you’ve lost will be a few minutes.

I’m assuming the score reels don’t reset currently.

#6 1 year ago

If this is for Playmatic Rio, one or more of these switches or relays is stuck closed. Which one(s)?

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#7 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

If this is for Playmatic Rio, one or more of these switches or relays is stuck closed. Which one(s)?
[quoted image]

I don’t want to hijack this thread, but I just want to take a second to thank you for how quickly and often you’re willing to help out in these EM repair help forums, often with detailed schematic excerpts. I imagine it’s quite a bit of work to go through the trouble, but it’s always appreciated.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from hjh632:A very first, quick, and simple test you could do is manually set all the score reels to zero with the game off, then try to start the game. Chances are there will be no change in behavior, but all you’ve lost will be a few minutes.
I’m assuming the score reels don’t reset currently.

The score reels reset. I had one that was stuck, but I figured out how it was installed and got it to zero. They all work from then on. The game is Rio, from Playmatic. There is no one in my area who will work on a Spanish machine that I can find, so I'm pretty much on my own. I've read what I can, but all the switches on the playfield, including the pop bumpers, kickers and flippers work fine. And they all look fine as well.

The score motor appears to be based on a Williams model, with horizontal cams. I am attaching two photos, one of the score motor from the right side of the cabinet, and the second from the left side, showing the labels for each cam.

I have the schematic for this game, from ipdb. I just want to ensure that IF I attempt to adjust a score motor switch, I am looking at it from the right perspective. When you look at the schematic, and it shows a switch to be normally open, and you look at the corresponding switch stack and see that it is closed, I want to make sure I have the timing correct.

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#9 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

If this is for Playmatic Rio, one or more of these switches or relays is stuck closed. Which one(s)?
[quoted image]

What if Index C is closed? Would that cause a problem?

#10 1 year ago

If index c was always closed, the score motor will continue to stay running. It’s the motor runout switch looking for it’s home position and open.. along with all the other switches listed above.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from proraly:

What if Index C is closed? Would that cause a problem?

Quoted from pinballdaveh:

If index c was always closed, the score motor will continue to stay running. It’s the motor runout switch looking for it’s home position and open.. along with all the other switches listed above.

pinballdaveh is right. The reason I typically don't include it is that when the motor is running it's closed most of the time, which could cause beginners to think it's the problem when it isn't.

#12 1 year ago

Each relay that HowardR has red circled above will have a normally open switch with a Blk-Slate wire(s) connected to it. When the switch is closed even if the relay isn’t pulled in,the score motor will run. Clean and adjust switches if needed.

#13 1 year ago

Just listen to Howard and do exactly what he says, and you will fix the problem.

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from HowardR:

pinballdaveh is right. The reason I typically don't include it is that when the motor is running it's closed most of the time, which could cause beginners to think it's the problem when it isn't.

This was the reason for my original post. A visual of the Index switches when in the score motor notch shows that Index B and Index C are closed at this point. This is with the machine off.

#15 1 year ago

Make sure your on the correct cam. The index cam is the 2nd cam from the motor. On this machine the first cam is the impulse cam ( unlike Williams where the impulse cam is on the far right ). Find the black-slate wire to verify the correct switch. Adjust switch to open on the low dwell of the cam home position.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from proraly:

I believe that if a switch on the score motor is supposed to be normally open, that is its state when it is in the trough of the motor, and when it is on the cam (not in the trough), it should be in the opposite state.

Think of it this way: the schematic is trying to show the state of all switches throughout the game at one point in time. It should be a state that the operator can reproduce. In the case of the motor, it shows how the switches are when the motor is at the home position. Some switch stacks will be lifted up and some won't. That's not the same as "normal" in terms like "normally open" that apply to how the switch blades are configured when not being actuated by an outside pressure.
.................David Marston

#17 1 year ago

Thank you. That is the information I need.

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