(Topic ID: 251866)

How do you define "restored"?


By cottonm4

62 days ago



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  • 25 posts
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  • Latest reply 62 days ago by Dent00
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    #1 62 days ago

    It appears this guy thinks new flipper mechs, a "rebuilt" power supply, and some new rubber means restored. I'm not even sure this would be a shop job. Further driving home why anyone buying needs to ask to see lots of pics.

    This kind of crap, IMO, is what screws the game up for decent sellers.

    Restored? Rubbish !!

    kansascity.craigslist.org link

    Screen Shot 2019-09-21 at 12.35.09 AM (resized).png

    #2 62 days ago

    Yeah I agree. If he eliminated the word “restored”, his ad would be fine.

    #3 62 days ago

    "Restored"
    repair or renovate (a building, work of art, vehicle, etc.) so as to return it to its original condition.
    "the building has been lovingly restored"
    Key: return to its original condition.
    He is either inexperienced or is attempting to sell to the inexperienced.

    #4 62 days ago

    At least he actually bothered to rebuild the flippers, unlike most of the "shopped" games I've bought!

    #5 62 days ago

    You can’t define it per se.

    Restored brings with it to much of a qualitative response. How it looks. One might think it looks nice, while another will disagree that it’s not original. You need to discover the quantifiable elements. Does it work 100%, what has been replaced, how have you restored it.

    #6 62 days ago
    Quoted from rollitover:

    Key: return to its original condition

    This definition of restored while being accurate is rarely seen in pinball IMHO. Even in a very thorough restoration, there is almost always some kind of modification (improvement) to the factory design. LEDs come to mind first and formost because it is an improvement over incondesent bulbs. The word Restored has been grossly misused to describe work performed on a game. The word "restored" can be tricky also when used to describe worked performed. Example: What if you replace a playfield in a game with a new NOS playfield while restoring the machine (or returning the machine to a Like New status) is it restored? Technically No. If you restore a machine to the letter of the law, then every nut bolt and washer should be replaced with a new one. So restored is a tough one swalllow.

    #7 62 days ago

    Everyone has a different idea what restored means, especially people that aren't serious about the hobby. Look at the machine and and if it doesn't fit your definition of restored, make an offer or move on.

    #8 62 days ago

    Restored is the equivalent to a frame off restoration on a car. Every part would need to tumbled, cleaned etc. If decals are worn new would be applied. NOS or replacment playfield installed. If theres damage to cabinet its repaired. Basically everything looks new. Doing a portion of the items above, such as "just" a playfield swap, can mean a game is partially restored.

    Many sellers are now listing games as restored that are really just shopped. Shopped means taking an original game that has been played regularly over its lifetime and cleaning it. Cleaning a game does not mean its restored.

    #9 62 days ago

    Restored means wiped down with novus in the easy to get to spots and Windex the glass.

    #11 62 days ago

    "Resorted" - adopting an undesirable course of action to resolve a difficult situation.

    wait, i may have misread that...

    #12 62 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    partially restored

    Here is another one... Partially Restored same as: a Little Pregnant... Almost New.... It is either Restored or not. One or two word descriptions are usually a red flag right off the bat.

    #13 62 days ago

    Although this essay refers to cars, I think most if not all of the descriptions of a true restoration apply to pins also.

    https://www.hemmings.com/blog/article/restoration-vs-refurbishment/

    #14 62 days ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    Here is another one... Partially Restored same as: a Little Pregnant... Almost New.... It is either Restored or not. One word descriptions are usually a red flag right off the bat.

    I disagree and here's why. I have a Funhouse that IS partially restored. The playfield is new and everything on top is brand new (minus Rudy's head, posts and guides). Should I sell it and the next buyer does the cabinet they would have a fully restored machine. Should they sell it they should divulge when my restoration occurred and theirs. The point I'm trying to make is a person needs to clearly define partially restored VS fully restored and when. Anyone who thinks shopping the topside and rebuilding flippers qualifies as a restoration they're just idiots lol.

    #15 62 days ago

    Ok so what portion of the machine is restored? Who knows? Just don't use the word Restored. Playfield replaced, ramps replaced, flippers rebuilt... oh I forgot to rebuild the pops... Cabinet faded out and scratched. Machine is not restored. The other word that is ridiculous is "Shopped" What does that mean? It was put into a shop... That's it. It was never intended to describe a machine for sale. A machine's condition should be explained with more than one or two words.

    #16 62 days ago

    Something else I noticed about the pic of this "restored" F2K. He has another F2K sitting in the back ground.

    Me thinking he took all of the good parts and put them on one pin, placed the 2nd rate parts on the "restored" pin and is now trying to unload it.

    Screen Shot 2019-09-21 at 11.58.52 AM (resized).png
    #17 62 days ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    Something else I noticed about the pic of this "restored" F2K. He has another F2K sitting in the back ground.
    Me thinking he took all of the good parts and put them on one pin, placed the 2nd rate parts on the "restored" pin and is now trying to unload it.[quoted image]

    The guy is selling a machine, why put so much thought into it? Do you have a personal problem with the seller?

    #18 62 days ago

    Jesus man. Not that bad. Have you seen the restored Elvira and the Party Animals for $7.5k on EBay.

    Yep, party animals.

    ebay.com link

    -2
    #19 62 days ago

    I think the ultimate problem is that this hobby has no standardized grading system...which is odd, because almost every other hobby/collectible item DOES have some sort of grading system.
    I propose that we on pinside (as the pre-eminent pinball community) attempt to make one.

    Here is my proposal for basic and simple standardized grading system:

    10 - New or Mint pinball. new in box, old in box, or restored pinball (full original status which includes all new parts and pieces or ones that have been cleaned to the point of appearing like new)

    9 - Like new or near mint pinball. Single owner game with low plays or mostly restored game (Like new game with very minor flaws)

    8 - Excellent used condition pinball. Used but 100% working and clean. Will show some wear, but it is very light.

    7 - Fine used condition pinball. Used but mostly working and clean. It may need small tweaks to get to 100% working and/or clean. Light wear.

    6 - Very good used condition - Used and mostly working. Will need some items to get it to 100%. May need a light cleaning. Noticeable wear, but still worthy.

    5 - Good used condition - Used and mostly working, but showing moderate wear. Might be missing a couple of items or need very minor repairs that don't effect gameplay. Needs cleaning.

    4 - Players condition used game - Used and working to the point of being playable, but needs obvious fixes. Might be missing a few items or in need of repairs, but it is still functional. Needs cleaning, repairs, and touch ups. Moderate to heavy wear.

    3 - Non-working game - Used and not working. It needs immediate attention to repairs to be functional. Will need cleaning and touch ups. Moderate to heavy wear.

    2 - Project game - Used and not working. In need of multiple repairs and/or replacement of missing parts. Likely has several broken/cracked parts. Needs a deep cleaning and touch ups. Heavy wear in areas.

    1 - Complete project game - Used and not working. Missing major parts and in need of major repairs. Many broken and cracked pieces. In need of major cleaning and touch ups. Heavy wear.

    #20 62 days ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    It appears this guy thinks new flipper mechs, a "rebuilt" power supply, and some new rubber means restored. I'm not even sure this would be a shop job. Further driving home why anyone buying needs to ask to see lots of pics.
    This kind of crap, IMO, is what screws the game up for decent sellers.
    Restored? Rubbish !!
    kansascity.craigslist.org link
    [quoted image]

    No offense, but I don't understand why people let shit like this bother them. The seller has not clue. It's obvious.

    #21 62 days ago
    Quoted from whthrs166:

    Here is another one... Partially Restored same as: a Little Pregnant... Almost New.... It is either Restored or not. One or two word descriptions are usually a red flag right off the bat.

    Yeah fair enough. I just wouldn't consider a game with an original cabinet but with a new playfield to be considered shopped. Then again could it really be considered restored if the cabinet was just in average shape?

    #22 62 days ago

    I would go by the looks of the game and does it actually work at 100%? Restored (to me) means it is fully functioning with nothing jury-rigged, no loose wiring bundles, no crappy electrical connections covered in electrical tape, nothing funny under the deck, etc. I would expect to pay a premium for a restored over a refurbished game. Partially restored would mean the same as above, but maybe some features don't work, or work randomly but nobody went in and did a half -assed repair attempt to fix it and now you will have to undo it all just to get it back to original conditions and still not have a working unit. I guess it is up to you, but I would walk away if I felt even a hint of unease.

    #23 62 days ago

    Once the windex and dirty rag comes out, the restore is almost over...

    #24 62 days ago

    Restored - Passive, something which was took out of storage and almost instantly sent back to storage

    #25 62 days ago

    I guess my 1st question would be where is the glass, the translite and the lockdown bar, assuming I was interested, which I am not.
    Perhaps they are included, but I don't see them in the photos...

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