(Topic ID: 111010)

How do I change the lamps/bulbs on a pinball machine?

By awesomeaja

9 years ago


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  • 35 posts
  • 21 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by cody_chunn
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 9 years ago

I know it sounds noobish but how do I change them on a Williams Indiana Jones? Do I take apart the plastics on the play-field or take out the pcb and put them on? I feel like unscrewing the pcb and replacing them will be safer and easier. But I just don't know.

#2 9 years ago

Whatever way is easier for you.

-9
#3 9 years ago

I like changing them by removing the inserts. That way you don't have to lift the heavy playfield up.
If any of them are raised, you can fix them at the same time.

#4 9 years ago

Do what works best for you. Some people prefer to remove the plastics and tackle them from above. In my opinion, it is FAR easier to lift the PF and get them one at a time. DO NOT do this while the game is on. It may seem fun with lights on, but if you drop a screw and it shorts something blowing something somewhere in that backbox, you're going to have a long...long...long day.

Lay a white towel in the bottom of your cabinet. That way if any screws do fall, they won't bounce or roll all around in the bottom of the cabinet. Believe me, you drop one and it will purposefully roll over and under every wire in the game; it just happens trust me on this .

#5 9 years ago

I am unsure what the underside of an indiana jones play field looks like, but if there are PCB boards usually the sockets twist and are removable to replace bulbs.

#6 9 years ago

The PCBs on IJ use 555, wedges. Leave the boards attached. Pull the bulb out. Recently did mine and they took some effort to get some out but be patient.
The GIs are easiest accessed by unscrewing the screw for the socket. Replace with a nice frosted white, reinsert and screw back down.

#7 9 years ago

With the power off!

#8 9 years ago
Quoted from dgoett:

I like changing them by removing the inserts. That way you don't have to lift the heavy playfield up.
If any of them are raised, you can fix them at the same time.

Some would also call this irony.

#9 9 years ago

Clean your inserts with a q-tip, and light cleaner...Novus, while you are there....

#10 9 years ago

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll be sure to take all of your suggestions into consideration when I'm replacing them.

#11 9 years ago
Quoted from awesomeaja:

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll be sure to take all of your suggestions into consideration when I'm replacing them.

Including this one ?

Quoted from dgoett:I like changing them by removing the inserts. That way you don't have to lift the heavy playfield up.
If any of them are raised, you can fix them at the same time.

#12 9 years ago
Quoted from jkroeck25:

Including this one ?

I don't know if that was a joke or not but lol

#13 9 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

DO NOT do this while the game is on. It may seem fun with lights on, but if you drop a screw and it shorts something blowing something somewhere in that backbox, you're going to have a long...long...long day.

I see this comment a lot, and based on the amount of games I've serviced over the years with lights on, I have either been consistently lucky, or the risk is lower than you imply. I've even spent time evaluating this risk under several playfields as I serviced them, and I just don't see it outside of gross negligence. As such I would appreciate someone pointing out what to look for to back up your statement.

#14 9 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

I see this comment a lot, and based on the amount of games I've serviced over the years with lights on, I have either been consistently lucky, or the risk is lower than you imply. I've even spent time evaluating this risk under several playfields as I serviced them, and I just don't see it outside of gross negligence. As such I would appreciate someone pointing out what to look for to back up your statement.

I see a pinball machine with the lights on similar to the idea of cleaning a loaded gun or working under a car with only a pneumatic pump jack supporting the car - why risk it?

Now, if you have the high voltage switch disabled, then yeah, for the most part, you'll be safe. I just prefer to change out the bulbs under safe conditions rather than taking a chance and something going horribly wrong.

Kind of like when I changed out the coil sleeve on HS2 with the power on, and when I got done, I lowered the PF, and guess what happened? The coil lugs shorted out on the flipper leaf switch, and the continuity from J107 to the shooter coil was damaged, causing me lots of headache. If I had done it with the power off, life could have been much easier....

Another great example was when I changed out the drop target lights on TFTC. I did it with the lights on, and all of a sudden, the solenoids at startup were popping in the same pattern as the flashers normally do. Took me forever to figure out what had happened. Somehow (this was 2 years ago and I never investigated how it could have happened, sorry), I shorted out the fuse that controlled the flashers and solenoids, and this behavior started IMMEDIATELY after changing the lights to LEDs, and it was just those 3 lights in particular.

Those are my two experiences that make me turn the games off now when swapping lights.

#15 9 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

I see this comment a lot, and based on the amount of games I've serviced over the years with lights on, I have either been consistently lucky, or the risk is lower than you imply. I've even spent time evaluating this risk under several playfields as I serviced them, and I just don't see it outside of gross negligence. As such I would appreciate someone pointing out what to look for to back up your statement.

i dunno, it seems like it would be really easy to accidentally push two wires together for an instant and cause a short while messing with those sockets. granted with the coin door open (high voltage stuff disabled) you probably can't do too much damage beyond a blown fuse, but why risk it?

#16 9 years ago

I always pull the board, reflow solder for the connector pins and add a little solder to the socket pads.

#17 9 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

I see a pinball machine with the lights on similar to the idea of cleaning a loaded gun or working under a car with only a pneumatic pump jack supporting the car - why risk it?

Well put NPO.

A good electrician can replace a wall socket with the power on, the best electricians know better than to tempt fate.

#18 9 years ago
Quoted from dgoett:

I like changing them by removing the inserts. That way you don't have to lift the heavy playfield up.
If any of them are raised, you can fix them at the same time.

If this is a serious suggestion I am agog!! If it is meant as a sarcastic post it is in poor taste given the polite OP

#19 9 years ago
Quoted from wayner:

If this is a serious suggestion I am agog!! If it is meant as a sarcastic post it is in poor taste given the polite OP

It was meant to be humor, but wasn't that funny.

So to answer the OP's question ... Lots of PCBs on the bottom of IJ. some of the 555 wedges can be tough to remove, so a little gentle twist with a pair of pliers works well. For non-PCB lights, usually GI lighting, use a long 1/4" nut driver to remove the socket from the bottom and replace the bulb that way. POWER OFF all the time. It just takes one short with a tool to make a mess of things. If you don't have one get a good utility/drop light to work with on your pins. Test before you close everything back up...

#20 9 years ago

Most will disagree. Here is my story.

A few months back I converted a Road Show to LEDs. Yes, I did it with the power on and coin door open. I like to see how the game looks and takes shape as I add colors without having to reboot a game endlessly. After 30+ bulbs installed I added 1 more and instantly blew my fuse on the GI. Perplexed, I was thinking I should have listened to the advice of leaving the game off all along.

After diagnosing and replacing the blown fuse, I grabbed a different bulb as they were in a pile. Got several more bulbs into the conversion and damnit, lights out again. Same fuse. It got me thinking, what if I grabbed and inserted the same bulb again and it's a bulb issue. Highly unlikely, but let's try it. Replaced fuse and kept this bulb aside. Put said bulb back into the socket again and surprise surprise, lights out. Replace fuse for the umpteenth time. This time I grab a different bulb and had no problems throughout the rest of the game.

Put the suspect bulb in the GI on my FG. Fuse instantly torched. I indeed had a shit bulb. It happens. I even contacted the seller about this, although rare they said it has happened a time or two in recent past.

Now let's look at it this way, if I took said suggestion and installed with no power, I would have blown the fuse still and then would have tried to diagnose for days and weeks what the issue was. Many of you would have provided great things to assess the situation. In the end the only hint that would have worked in this case is to strip all 200+ bulbs out of the game as I would have had no idea it was a single bulb or which one it was. Could have really screwed me for a while. Then test every single bulb to see if it was potentially one.

I will now and forever change bulbs lights on. I remain careful and don't use tools while the power is on, fingers only. Just my experience though.

#21 9 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

I see a pinball machine with the lights on similar to the idea of cleaning a loaded gun.........

Kind of like when I changed out the coil sleeve

Did you actually compare a loaded gun to this scenario? A bit far fetched in my opinion.
Secondly, you were working on a coil, which stores energy (high voltage at that)......not a 6.3volt light. Sorry, but your argument is invalid.

Minimizing and managing risk is good practice. Wreck less behavior such as using metal tools while playing under the playfield or messing with high voltage components pose a much greater risk than changing a low voltage bulb when done carefully.

Since Christmas time is coming up, who here remember the old string of Christmas lights when one bulb is out the whole string is gone? chances are some of you still own some. How did you know which bulb it was? For those who are young enough to not have experienced these, you got out a new bulb and replaced bulb by bulb till you figured it out, with the power ON. Tedious, monotonous, PITA! Apply to pinball, rinse and repeat.

#22 9 years ago
Quoted from ff6735:

Did you actually compare a loaded gun to this scenario? A bit far fetched in my opinion.
Secondly, you were working on a coil, which stores energy (high voltage at that)......not a 6.3volt light. Sorry, but your argument is invalid.
Minimizing and managing risk is good practice. Wreck less behavior such as using metal tools while playing under the playfield or messing with high voltage components pose a much greater risk than changing a low voltage bulb when done carefully.

Now I have to jump in here. You need to realize that the coil is not storing energy - it's not a capacitor. Nothing is happening at all when the coil circuit is static and the game is powered on. There is no current flowing, and it's just a big spool of wire in circuit. But there is voltage present there, which is potential, even when current is not flowing. Short anywhere the high voltage coil circuits to the lamp matrix and you'll get a big problem. Short the coil circuit high voltage to the switch matrix and you'll get a big problem.
From the repair docs online (specifically about a Williams System 11 as an example)
"When in a hurry, many make an under playfield adjustment with the game turned on. Doing a switch adjustment with the power on could easily short a coil lead (+25/50 volts) to a switch lead. This will immediately blow the switch matrix, and fry the most anything to and including the 6821 PIA at U38. You can bet the switch row 4011 chips at U30 and U39 will have failed. Also it could take out the switch column 2N3904 transistor(s) and the 74LS244 chip at U40."
If you want to work on lamps while they are on, you need to remove your coils supply circuit fuse to take power off the playfield coils.

#23 9 years ago

In all this seriousness maybe it is time for a little humor...

"How many Pinsiders does it take to change a lightbulb?"

#24 9 years ago

......One to hold the bulb, and 10 to turn the machine!

#25 9 years ago

"There is no lightbulb"

#26 9 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

"How many Pinsiders does it take to change a lightbulb?"

Five.

One to give some bad advice, one to give some good advice, one to affirm the good advice, one to elaborate on the good advice by several paragraphs, and the OP who actually has to do it. : B

#27 9 years ago
Quoted from ff6735:

Most will disagree. Here is my story.
A few months back I converted a Road Show to LEDs. Yes, I did it with the power on and coin door open. I like to see how the game looks and takes shape as I add colors without having to reboot a game endlessly. After 30+ bulbs installed I added 1 more and instantly blew my fuse on the GI. Perplexed, I was thinking I should have listened to the advice of leaving the game off all along.
After diagnosing and replacing the blown fuse, I grabbed a different bulb as they were in a pile. Got several more bulbs into the conversion and damnit, lights out again. Same fuse. It got me thinking, what if I grabbed and inserted the same bulb again and it's a bulb issue. Highly unlikely, but let's try it. Replaced fuse and kept this bulb aside. Put said bulb back into the socket again and surprise surprise, lights out. Replace fuse for the umpteenth time. This time I grab a different bulb and had no problems throughout the rest of the game.
Put the suspect bulb in the GI on my FG. Fuse instantly torched. I indeed had a shit bulb. It happens. I even contacted the seller about this, although rare they said it has happened a time or two in recent past.
Now let's look at it this way, if I took said suggestion and installed with no power, I would have blown the fuse still and then would have tried to diagnose for days and weeks what the issue was. Many of you would have provided great things to assess the situation. In the end the only hint that would have worked in this case is to strip all 200+ bulbs out of the game as I would have had no idea it was a single bulb or which one it was. Could have really screwed me for a while. Then test every single bulb to see if it was potentially one.
I will now and forever change bulbs lights on. I remain careful and don't use tools while the power is on, fingers only. Just my experience though.

I had 3 bad bulbs from a cointaker led kit that would immediately blow a fuse when installed.

#28 9 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

I see this comment a lot, and based on the amount of games I've serviced over the years with lights on, I have either been consistently lucky, or the risk is lower than you imply. I've even spent time evaluating this risk under several playfields as I serviced them, and I just don't see it outside of gross negligence. As such I would appreciate someone pointing out what to look for to back up your statement.

It only takes a second to turn off the machine and be on the safe side. I also used to change bulbs/LEDS with the power on. I shorted something on my BR because I did not kill the power even though I knew that I should have shut the game off. An ounce of prevention......

#29 9 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

It was meant to be humor, but wasn't that funny.
So to answer the OP's question ... Lots of PCBs on the bottom of IJ. some of the 555 wedges can be tough to remove, so a little gentle twist with a pair of pliers works well. For non-PCB lights, usually GI lighting, use a long 1/4" nut driver to remove the socket from the bottom and replace the bulb that way. POWER OFF all the time. It just takes one short with a tool to make a mess of things. If you don't have one get a good utility/drop light to work with on your pins. Test before you close everything back up...

Thanks Pinster, that's the best suggestion given.

#30 9 years ago

Awesome. Glad I could help.

Brian

#31 9 years ago
Quoted from ff6735:

Did you actually compare a loaded gun to this scenario? A bit far fetched in my opinion.

I didn't mean it has the same level of danger. My quote states "similar to the idea" - not - "These two situations are the same level of threat to life and limb as cleaning a loaded gun."

It was a comparison of "Why take the chance." not "OMG, you're putting yourself in harm's way, holy shit get a flack jacket."

In all seriousness, your story harbors a really good example of potentially a good reason to leave the lights on. And hey, if people want to do that, by all means, do it. Your machine, your choice to make - if all goes well, great!

Don't take the comparison too literally . It was just meant figuratively.

Bottom line, it reads as though the OP got the advice they were seeking.

#32 9 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

Kind of like when I changed out the coil sleeve on HS2 with the power on, and when I got done, I lowered the PF, and guess what happened? The coil lugs shorted out on the flipper leaf switch, and the continuity from J107 to the shooter coil was damaged, causing me lots of headache. If I had done it with the power off, life could have been much easier....

Usually power is required to troubleshoot a switch issue. Maybe the moral of the story is, at a minimum, to turn power off when raising or lowering the PF, especially without service rails to protect the parts.

Quoted from pezpunk:

i dunno, it seems like it would be really easy to accidentally push two wires together for an instant and cause a short while messing with those sockets. granted with the coin door open (high voltage stuff disabled) you probably can't do too much damage beyond a blown fuse, but why risk it?

Wires are typically all insulated and secured so it is not possible to push them together for a short. There is risk if you laid a screwdriver across connections, but I haven't found myself working in that manner.

I'm not arguing with anyone, I agree there is risk that may not be worth it. Generally lights are only 6.3v, but disabling high power is a very good idea.

#33 9 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

Wires are typically all insulated and secured so it is not possible to push them together for a short.

Right, but the terminals on a lot of parts are usually not insulated. I was just working on a game that had a GI short because a socket was pushed up against an adjacent metal part mount. It took me a little while to find it, and it seems that it's location on the edge of the playfield was a factor - I surmise this happened during the lifting of the playfield for servicing.

9 months later
#34 8 years ago

"DO NOT do this while the game is on. It may seem fun with lights on, but if you drop a screw and it shorts something blowing something somewhere in that backbox, you're going to have a long...long...long day.
Lay a white towel in the bottom of your cabinet. That way if any screws do fall, they won't bounce or roll all around in the bottom of the cabinet. Believe me, you drop one and it will purposefully roll over and under every wire in the game; it just happens trust me on this."

I wish I had seen this advice 8 years ago when I starting buying pins. I don't know how many transistors I blew and problems and hours of misery I caused by replacing bulbs with the lights on.

Also the screws tend to fall and disappear or go to places you can't reach. A magnetic toll I bought awhile back was one the investments I ever made any getting to nuts, bolts, screws and other magnetic things that have fall and can't reach with my hands.

I've seen tools to help pull out hard to reach bulbs and that's what I need to get next.
Any suggestions on a good one to purchase?

#35 8 years ago

The guy circled here is an actual WMS service item with a part # and everything. I don't remember the part #, but I'm sure you can find the type and size of the tubing and cut your own. It works many times over better than the black one Pinball Resource sells. I don't know if they have this part or not.

lamp tube.jpglamp tube.jpg

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