(Topic ID: 46386)

How bad is this AFM board hack?

By GoChiefs70

11 years ago


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  • 15 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by spfxted
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 11 years ago

I have the chance to buy an AFM. However, as I looked behind the backglass, there is a hack (see photos). The J105 connector on the board is completely gone, which is connected to GI on the backglass/translite. Instead, the visible brown/red/yellow/blue wires are soldered onto the back of the board to J105 and connect to the translite frame. In the second photo you can see some type of corrosion that probably caused it to go bad; not sure what it was, not close to the batteries. All of the lights work related to this connection and the game otherwise seems to work fine, and the price seems good and fair to me with this and minor playfield wear.

Is this an acceptable repair? Should I run the other way quickly, other problems to come from this? Worst case scenario, I replace the board, but are these boards available and how much do they cost? Thanks for any thoughts.

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#2 11 years ago

In the top picture those I believe are diodes, they are gone on my machine. I believe they were a bad design as I have seen more than a few of those omitted from a few different AFMs. Mine just has wires going across now. Just need a new header and connector at j105. Certainly repairable. i wouldn't hesitate to buy it.

#3 11 years ago

It's a bypass for a bad design. Read more here:
http://iobium.com/fixing_the_wpc95_gi_diodes.htm

It wouldn't stop me from buying. Just verify correctness of the mod and clean up where needed.

#4 11 years ago

Get the seller to lower the price by the amount of a new board (300 for a Rottendog, 450 for a NOS Williams) and buy it!

Right now only Mad Amusements seems to have the Rottendog board in stock ($295):

http://mad-amusements.com/product.php?id_product=295

Marco still has some NOS, Williams originals for $450:

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-20028

#5 11 years ago
Quoted from GaryMartin:

Get the seller to lower the price by the amount of a new board (300 for a Rottendog, 450 for a NOS Williams) and buy it!
Right now only Mad Amusements seems to have the Rottendog board in stock ($295):
http://mad-amusements.com/product.php?id_product=295
Marco still has some NOS, Williams originals for $450:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-20028

Wow, if you're made of money. There's really nothing wrong to use the existing boards. To each his own.

#6 11 years ago

I'd say that board could be repaired professionally if the potential buyer didn't want to repair it themselves.

Get the seller to knock $100 off the price of the game, and send the board out. Probably $100 or so to fix that problem and any others that may potentially lurk on the board.

#7 11 years ago

Not a big deal. You can use it for price negotiation, but it's far from a showstopper.
--
Chris Hibler

#8 11 years ago

Thank you all for the input. It working is important to me, which it does. Seller will knock $200 off, says he bought that way and had not noticed. It sounds like worst case I get a new board for $300 from what I am hearing. By the way, for future reference, where does one send a board for repair, any specific places?

#9 11 years ago

The biggest problem I see with this board (and not fixed by some newer replacements) is the fact that these high current pins have traces that connect *on the top of the board* and not the bottom. With high current traces only on the top of the board - the connector relies solely on the plated through hole to make contact between the header and the trace. As you can easily see in the first picture - this plated through hole connection has gone bad. It can be fixed by paralleling the connection on the bottom of the board. Not pretty but better looking than what you have now.

Regarding repair -- check with Rob Anthony or Clive at Coin-op Cauldron.
For some links, see here:
http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/repair.asp

#10 11 years ago

Him.

http://lockwhenlit.com

Quoted from G-P-E:

Regarding repair -- check with Rob Anthony

#11 11 years ago
Quoted from GoChiefs70:

By the way, for future reference, where does one send a board for repair, any specific places?

I've fixed hundreds of these. The best practice is to completely bypasse the traces where those 6A2 diodes are. Later revs of the board used zero ohm jumpers there, which is effectively the same as the board jumpers I install.

LMK if you need help with it.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#12 11 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

completely bypasse the traces where those 6A2 diodes are. Later revs of the board used zero ohm jumpers there

This is very good information to know for future reference! Thanks Chris!

#13 11 years ago

Personally, if I see a game is hacked but it works it does not bother me very much at all. I will make a big deal out of it to try and get the price lower, but it does not bother me. I figure I can always pretty it up later if the hack starts to go bad.

My goal is a machine that plays well and if a hack is working and not damaging anything I don't normally rush to "fix it" until I am doing other work in that area when something actually breaks.

What really does scare me is a hacked machine that is dead. If a hack happened and the pin never worked again I can see myself having a pile of time trying to figure out what is wrong. Wires all mixed up, wrong parts put on boards, someone could have mixed up wires and put high voltage through all of the chips and they are fried, etc. A pile of time could be put into a game like that to get it working again and it may not be worth it.

#14 11 years ago
Quoted from mg81:

Personally, if I see a game is hacked but it works it does not bother me very much at all. I will make a big deal out of it to try and get the price lower, but it does not bother me. I figure I can always pretty it up later if the hack starts to go bad.
My goal is a machine that plays well and if a hack is working and not damaging anything I don't normally rush to "fix it" until I am doing other work in that area when something actually breaks.
What really does scare me is a hacked machine that is dead. If a hack happened and the pin never worked again I can see myself having a pile of time trying to figure out what is wrong. Wires all mixed up, wrong parts put on boards, someone could have mixed up wires and put high voltage through all of the chips and they are fried, etc. A pile of time could be put into a game like that to get it working again and it may not be worth it.

I had a friend go out and buy an old non-working Comet without checking with me first. Had all sorts of spliced in wires and mismatched colors. They subbed in lamp cord and had such a useless loop of splice that once I traced it around they had (probably by mistake) bypassed the game fuses as well.

You're right, it is time consuming to undo the foreign stuff but it has to be done. It will make the game much easier to troubleshoot later when it physically matches the schematics. Get a notepad and break it down in sections (for example - I'm going to work on correcting the G.I. section) Study it well and make good notes and you'll get it fixed- just maybe not as quick as you would like.

If I was to purchase something questionable, such as a box with a corrosion damaged motherboard, I'll figure in the "what-if-I-end-up-actually-having-to-replace-this-board" cost into my offer. If it's a dead game but original boards never worked on and no corrosion, I'll pay up on that game, because it's something I can work with easily.

#15 11 years ago

$200 off? You're Good To Go!!

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