(Topic ID: 228370)

How BAD are BEATLES sales so far?

By iceman44

1 year ago

Topic Stats

  • 899 posts
  • 234 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by Aussiepinwiz
  • Topic is favorited by 10 Pinsiders


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#148 1 year ago
Quoted from tamoore:

People who were looking forward to this theme can and should be pissed off by the execution of it.

It's like Gary always says:

“We don’t ask consumers what they want. They don’t know. Instead we apply our brain power to what they need, and will want”

#167 1 year ago
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#179 1 year ago
Quoted from bkaelin:

No wonder so many games are hit or miss.

It's been that way since the dawn of pinball.

Some games flop like Spectrum, and some blow up, like Time Warp.

Who would have guessed that Williams would have sold 9,000 Time Warps???

Quoted from bkaelin:

How about some basic market research?

Stern knows they will sell every single Beatles pin. Every one.

#183 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Are you currently drawing a paycheck from Stern??!??!!
Or just not a moron?
hard to tell around here these days!

Yes, Gary is paying me to criticize his products on a public forum.

It's the secret to Stern's success.

#186 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I can't imagine that thing earned.

Time Warp earned, and that's why ops kept buying them.

At the final end of the production run, they were shipping them with standard flippers, and those did not earn as well.

Disco Fever sold over 6,000 units, with a much crapier layout (and theme), but again, I think the curved flippers attracted players who otherwise would have walked by without dropping a coin.

#188 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Then why do you reckon they stopped producing these games?

There was only so much room on the production lines.

The moment euro orders started to slow, that was the signal to start gearing up for the next game.

The next games after TW had voice (like Gorgar and Xenon) so it probably was better business to push the more expensive games.

The distributors were excited about Gorgar, and were even giving away records with Gorgar talking.

#190 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I meant, why do you reckon they stopped designing new Banana games if the old ones were selling and earning? I suspect they were getting operator/distributor feedback that they weren't earning. Maybe they did for a short while till the novelty wore off?

Hard to say, they were earning for us.

But Multiball was coming around (probably be too easy with the curved flippers), and the new flipper mechs came out that were not compatible with the curved flipper's shafts either.

It was fun while it lasted....

#203 1 year ago

Stern will sell every single one.

Gary and Joe are laughing all the way to the bank.

They will donate one to The Price Is Right and every great-grandmother will know of it's existence.

Stern Helpline: Hello Stern!
Great Grandmother: Will I be able to play the Beatles game in my Hoveround?
Stern: Good question! We indeed tested this exact scenario during development. If you are taller than 4' 8" standing, you will be able to play while riding your Hoveround.
GG: Fantabulus! Oh my. You know I saw the Beatles?
S: Really? In person?
GG: No, No, they were on the television. Our neighbor had one! I thought they were deviants with their long hair.
S: We kept it really tame for the pin. I assure you nothing will offend.
G: Wonderful. You know that Strawberry Fields was about sniffing girl's bicycle seats?!
S: Yes mam, I've heard that many times....

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#260 1 year ago
Quoted from Frax:

lol what is it with all the douchebags on here lately suddenly gathering around this term? Did you guys all get stuck in the WOZ announcement thread and just now found your way out of there or what?

It's popular again because there was an article recently saying that even in packs of dogs, alpha males don't exist.

#279 1 year ago
Quoted from whitey:

Another thing ? John Lennon could have married a super model or a few thousand?
Yoko ?
What a dog

She says she's a witch.

She cast a spell on him and broke up the Beatles.

(I always say 'what kind of witch lets her boytoy walk around New York without a protection spell???' )

#280 1 year ago
Quoted from whitey:

WTF. Are we going to dig up old broke hippies to buy this game ? I don’t get it

Did you ever see how Twitter blew up after Paul McCarthy played at the end of the Grammy's two years ago?

It's pretty telling:


#281 1 year ago
Quoted from whitey:

Or better yet !!!!!!!
Gretta Van Fleet !
Pinsiders check this band out
Rock is coming back

People are saying they are not even a real band (like this Pitchfork review of their new disc):

Greta Van Fleet sound like they did weed exactly once, called the cops, and tried to record a Led Zeppelin album before they arrested themselves. The poor kids from Frankenmuth, Michigan don’t even realize they’re more of an algorithmic fever dream than an actual rock band. While they’re selling out shows all over the world, somewhere in a boardroom, a half-dozen people are figuring out just how, exactly, Jimmy Page and Robert Plant are supposed to fit into the SUV with the rest of the Greta Van Fleet boys on “Carpool Karaoke.”

Just look at this photo: Brothers Jake and Sam Kiszka, on guitar and bass, are both wearing hippie costumes they 3D-printed off the internet. The singer, the wretched and caterwauling third brother, Josh, is in dangly feather earrings and vinyl pants, like he was dressed by a problematic Santa Fe palm-reader with a gift certificate to Chico’s. It’s a costume—Greta Van Fleet is all costume. And if things that look like another thing is your thing, get ready to throw your lighters up for a band whose guiding principle seems to be reading the worst Grand Funk Railroad songs as if they were a religious text.

kaplan-cos-lolla-fri-greta-van-fleet-7 (resized).jpg

Though their debut album, Anthem of the Peaceful Army, sounds like a bona fide classic rock record—with its fuzzy bass, electric sitar solos, and lyrics featuring the kind of self-actualized transcendence brought on by a few too many multivitamins—it is not actually classic rock. They are a new kind of vampiric band who’s there to catch the runoff of original classic rock using streaming services’ data-driven business model. Greta Van Fleet exist to be swallowed into the algorithm’s churn and rack up plays, of which they already have hundreds of millions. They make music that sounds exactly like Led Zeppelin and demand very little other than forgetting how good Led Zeppelin often were.

It’s possible to be an exceptional classic rock vampire act but it requires something more than the major label money and vaguely Native American accoutrements. It’s why Greta Van Fleet can’t compete with, say, the Darkness circa 2003’s “I Believe in a Thing Called Love.” The Darkness—who aped big rock warhorses like Queen and Aerosmith and Van Halen—were so outrageous that they had to be credulous. They had a song that went, “Get your hands off of my woman, mother ****er” and did a power metal cover of Radiohead’s “Street Spirit (Fade Out).” Who would do such garish things? They dared you, tongue in cheek, to take this impossibly foolish thing very seriously.

Greta Van Fleet do no such thing. They care so deeply and are so precious with their half-baked boomer fetishism, they mollycoddled every impulse of late-’60s rock‘n’roll into an interminable 49-minute drag. Each song here could be written or played by any of a thousand classic rock cover bands that have standing gigs at sports bars and biker joints across America (the same venues where Greta Van Fleet cut their teeth when they were kids). So why should Greta Van Fleet be the ones signed to Republic and William Morris, because they don’t have bald spots yet? Tons of people in those cover bands play their instruments better than Greta Van Fleet, who are, currently, proficient at best. No one in this band offers anything in the way of personality that doesn’t sound like your average YouTube tutorial for a Jimmy Page-type pentatonic solo or a John Bonham-type shuffle.

And at least Zeppelin knew to separate their sweet-lady-I’m-horny songs from their howling-about-literary-fantasy songs. Hilariously, Greta Van Fleet combine them into one on “The Cold Wind,” where the narrator (who is dying) begs his “sweet mama” to take the family ox (I guess) to town to sell it, when, mid-ox-transaction, this happens: “The Yankee peddler bargains with you on his way/Whoa sweet mama’s gotten herself a new dress.”

That’s funny, but it’s not supposed to be funny, because Greta Van Fleet do not possess self-awareness—at all. When asked about a characteristically ugh lyric (“All my brothers who stand up/For the peace of the land”), Jake responded, in part, “I guess it’s subject to interpretation. But I think the initial idea with that was that, as brothers, we stand for the peace of land. And that was for the good of the Earth, and for man.” Ignoring that this is basically a gag in Spinal Tap, a much better answer that would speak to the spirit of the music they are trying to capture would be: “I don’t know, who gives a ****.”

What they lack in self-awareness they more than make up for in rigid self-consciousness, failing to make any fun or campy choices to lift these songs out of a morass of the worst impulses of Rush and Cream. The back half of the album alternates between the ignorable and unforgivable, from what is (a somewhat fun stomper “Mountain of the Sun”) to what should never be: “The New Day” features Josh singing about watching a child grow in a garden, seeing her bloom so she can “be a woman soon.” None of this lysergic-sexual thinking is within the band’s grasp, they are just swatting at crusty platitudes and copy-pasting old mythos hoping no one notices that they are too small, too inept to even put forth one meaningful, specific, original idea.

But for as retro as Anthem of the Peaceful Army may seem, in actuality, it is the future. It’s proof of concept that in the streaming and algorithm economy, a band doesn’t need to really capture the past, it just needs to come close enough so that a computer can assign it to its definite article. The more unique it sounds, the less chance it has to be placed alongside what you already love. So when the Greta Van Fleet of your favorite artist finally lands on your morning playlist, spark up a bowl of nostalgia and enjoy the self-satisfied buzz of recognizing something you already know. It’s the cheapest high in music.


#282 1 year ago

^ You know how Pinsiders love the word "accoutrements"

#293 1 year ago
Quoted from MrBally:

What is "Twitter"?

Biff: I'll take "Technology from the last Decade" for $200
Alex: An online news and social networking site where idiots communicate in short messages called tweets.
Biff: What is Twitter?
Alex: Correct.

#298 1 year ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Like the Stern Elvis pin why use the early stuff when for me anyway Elvis in Vegas was his best time, until well......U know, same with the Beatles I wanna hear Get Back, Come Together etc. not the stuff with the screaming girls and bowl cuts.

Because the latter Elvis stuff was not as **rockin* for a fast, SR pinball machine.

"Come Together" is a slow tempo song for pin.

The tempo has to match the action on the playfield.

#322 1 year ago
Quoted from erak:

Yoko Ono just released a new single.

Although she still does not shave her legs, I gotta admit, she does not look bad for an 80 year old broad

#340 1 year ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

I'm not a big Beatles fan but I do know there library and more than enough decent pin music to work with after the Bowl cut era.

That's quite a list you provided!

You are right, I can't believe that Stern did not choose to have a single song play over and over instead of 9 rockin' early Beatles songs.

#341 1 year ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

early Elvis is "rockin" and the latter is not then I have to assume u r hearing impaired. 70's Elvis has some very fast numbers and he put together one of the best bands in history.


Wow, I had no idea that Elvis recorded so many very fast hits in the 70s !!!!!!!!!1

I can't believe that Stern could not chose 12 very fast songs from his 70s work!!!!!!

Here is every 70s single:

"Kentucky Rain"
"The Wonder of You"
"Mama Liked the Roses"
"I've Lost You"
"The Next Step Is Love"
"You Don't Have to Say You Love Me"
"Patch It Up"
"I Really Don't Want to Know"
"There Goes My Everything"
"Rags to Riches"
"Where Did They Go, Lord"
"Only Believe"
"I'm Leavin'"
"Heart of Rome"
"It's Only Love"
"The Sound of Your Cry"
"Merry Christmas Baby"
"O Come All Ye Faithful"
"Until It's Time for You to Go"
"We Can Make the Morning"
"He Touched Me"
"Bosom of Abraham"
"An American Trilogy"
"The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face"
"Burning Love"
"It's a Matter of Time"
"Separate Ways"
"Always on My Mind"
"Steamroller Blues"
"Raised on Rock"
"For Ol' Times Sake"
"I've Got a Thing About You Baby"
"Take Good Care of Her"
"If You Talk in Your Sleep"
"Help Me"
"Promised Land"
"It's Midnight"
"My Boy"
"Thinking About You"
"Mr. Songman"
"Bringing It Back"
"Pieces of My Life"
"For the Heart"
"Moody Blue"
"She Thinks I Still Care"
"Way Down"
"Pledging My Love"
"My Way"
"Unchained Melody"
"Softly as I Leave You"

#344 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I’m thinking a whole lot of smaller Distros wouldn’t drink this 10 pack

There is no requirement to buy the 10 pack.

Smaller distros can just do the usual single Stern drop-ships like they always do.

#347 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Not what I hear from them
So a “smaller distro” can just drop ship a Diamond or Platinum without committing to 7 Gold?

The Diamonds are rewards for those distributors that buy the 10 packs.

Just like you buy a case of a certain doll, they include a single "ultra rare doll" that the anime dealers can sell at a premium.

My distro has sold through two 10 packs, so that means he got 2 diamonds and got to "earn some actual money for once" by selling them.

#352 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

So we should feel bad for that Distro for be able to fleece some fools to make a profit? Nope, don’t think so

Who's feeling bad?

The only way my distro stays in business is making a profit.

The only way Stern stays in business is making a profit.

If you like the Beatles, and can comfortably afford a Diamond, I'm super happy for you if you buy one.

#353 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I get it. See my above post re collectors
But this is gonna end up like a bunch of “Better Call Saul” distributors selling these like cell phone burners out the back of a van

Who cares if they do?

If my distro sells his two Diamonds for $25,000 each, and then chooses to quietly sell his remaining Golds for $5,000 ; why would that upset you in any way?

#355 1 year ago
Quoted from Toasterdog:

Beatles store manufactured that sell out IMO. They probably only listed one of each (Diamond and Platinum) hoping clueless fans jump on the Golds at 10k a pop.

Who cares if they did?

They can keep drop shipping Golds from Stern until the run is over.

#359 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I plan on being a buyer long term. Not interested in grabbing ankles on a dry run AGAIN


Everyone has their personal distro that takes care of them.

If my distro can get $25,000 for his Diamond game, I'm not going to feel hurt that he would not sell it to me for $12,000

You've got to take your profit when you can.

#360 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Btw Vid, I’d say you are like CNN with all the worldwide info but that isn’t a compliment anymore

CNN is certainly broadcast everywhere in the world.

Al Jazeera and BBC are both really good if you want to stick your antenna out further and gather info from more sources.

Quoted from iceman44:

I might even join the Rocketry forum now!

They are much less conservative and much happier than Pinside, you'll love it


#362 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I dont see much demand either honesty but what do i know?

A few dealers outside the States are reporting that they are sold out.

If the USA dealers say the same thing tomorrow afternoon, then it was a fun ride while it lasted.

#364 1 year ago

If there are any Westcoast dealers still open, call one and see if USA is sold out too.

#372 1 year ago
Quoted from jgentry:

and they cant get me a gold through stern until the second run in Jan.

I heard that the Jan run is now sold out too.

Hats off to the Stern team.

You made the game that everyone said could never be made.

You sold out the game that Pinside said would never sell.

#404 1 year ago
Quoted from jkleinnd:

the new Rocketry forum where libs hang out,

There are no politics on the rocketry forum.

When I said they were much less **conservative** than Pinside, I was referring to the overall welcoming and respect of other's ideas, even when much different than their own.

#410 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Are there LE rockets available to purchase?

Of course, but all of this year's models have sold out already.

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#417 1 year ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

Don't kid yourself though. There aren't any bands like the Beatles anymore. You could take every rock/pop band out there nowadays and add them all together and they don't have the influence on society that the Beatlemania phenomenon had worldwide in just 6 years.

It's like the Model T .

Every car today is better in every way, but the Model T got the market going!

#426 1 year ago
Quoted from Gatecrasher:

Not a very good analogy.

Perfect analogy really.

The Beatles where the trailblazers for many other bands that followed.

They were more parent friendly than the thrusty "white boy who can sing colored, Elvis" or the Stones.

They were the first "boy band". Latter bands used them as the prototype, swapping members to make the band look right aka Pete Best .

They sold mega albums, but latter bands sold more (Like the White Album sold 18 million, but the Eagle's GH sold 40 million)

It's the same as the Model T.

Newer cars are faster, safer, larger runs, but they all owe something to the marketing/production genius of the T.

#432 1 year ago
Quoted from Billy16:

For sure molested their wallets...

I believe that it was completely consensual reaming; no one bought one who could not afford it.

#444 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I think the regular price increases and higher then ever NIB prices has helped contribute to more arguments and heated discussions on Pinside. Imagine a home video / audio, or rocketry forum if prices suddenly increased 3-4x within 15 years with no end in site.

Other than some crazy LE, pin prices have kept up with inflation.

In the 90s, I was paying $3200 for AFM, that's $5,300 in today's dollars.

In the 70s, I was paying $1800 for KISS, that's $7,200 in today's dollars.

#445 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Easier to market, produce and sell one model, so why create three models?

The 3 models were a reward for the dealers.

Dealers always cry that they don't get enough mark up.

So Stern threw them a bone.

Out of every 10 pack, 2 of the games could be sold to collectors for a larger mark-up.

Same as with anime dolls, each case has a single, crazy rare doll that can be sold for 10 times the amount of the other dolls in the box.

The rare doll is simply a different color. It's not larger or more fancy in any way.

Dealers love this because they get a handsome profit selling the rare doll for $300 instead of $30.

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#457 1 year ago
Quoted from spfxted:

....we can keep bitching about this until they are Sold Out....

Stern has now sold out both runs.

Lets argue about old playfields never dimpled!!!!!!!1

1 week later
#566 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

LOL, cause liberals just love hearing opinions they disagree with.

I'm very Conservative, and I love fncking with people who's opinions disagree with mine.

Q: How do you make a Conservative angry?

A: Tell them there is a valid Centrist position that is neither Right nor Left.


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#572 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Well there must be a reason he blew everything, for her?

That's what witches do.

Does this urn make my ash look fat?

1 week later
#591 1 year ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Boy u are way off, wheres suspicious mids

Great song, but at it's a string filled, midtempo drama, 115 bpm in fact.

I listed it in my post, #7 .

Quoted from Hazoff:

big boss man

Even a casual Elvis fan knows it can't be from the 70s, since he performed it on the 1968 Comeback Special.

Quoted from Hazoff:

next time you rebut maybe think about pulling ur head from ur own rebutt.

You did not even come close to finding 12 rocking Elvis singles from the 70s.

You are a total failure.

#597 1 year ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

It doesn't have to be from the 70's dickhead.

Quoted from Hazoff:

70's Elvis has some very fast numbers

The only thing Pinsiders wanted was 12 very fast Elvis 70s singles

You let them all down; way down.

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#611 1 year ago
Quoted from seenev:

Amazing that they're still going.

Who would have thought that Keith Richards would outlive Prince, Bowie, and Steele ????

#614 1 year ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Yeah. And I just read that he has put the booze away and gone sober.

That's bad.

He'll be dead before year's end.

#679 1 year ago

If you want prices to stagnate or fall, QUIT TRYING TO GET MORE PEOPLE INTO PINBALL.

I'm not joking.

#681 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

That wouldn't work either. Prices went up the last time that happened and got us to where we are now.

I saw prices fall into where a WH20 or DrWho was $700 any any classic Bally like Xenon was $300

That's when all these rich guys were NOT into pinball.

#684 1 year ago

Hang the rich

#687 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Remember when all the lawyers in pinball were just for our court cases and not buying LEs?


I remember that whenever you would talk about a replacement Bally MPU from Alltek, everyone would say "That costs more than the entire game!!!!!"

1 week later
#722 1 year ago
Quoted from Thunderbird:

Why would anyone pay an outrageous amount of money for this table ($8k)???

Because they can comfortably spend $8K on a pin they want, and never give it a second thought.

#741 1 year ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

great! once the average buyer gets priced/tapped out of the NIB market, manufacturers can 'pin' their hopes on the rich to support them by buying up all the 8K machines, only to put them in the corners of their bars as decorations that rarely get played.

Any time you go to a strangers house with a pin, they always have a TAF or Playboy sitting in the corner.

Always broken, but lit up as decoration.

#773 1 year ago

The real test will be how the Beatles does against WOF in a senior center.

1 week later
#805 1 year ago

There are less Fathoms currently on the earth than Beatles.

And to the average Joe, $4,000 seems like a poor value for an unrestored specimen.

And to some, even a restored Fathom might seem like a poor value for $8,000 .

Yet people keep buying them.


Like your grandfather always said: "Quit worrying about how other people spend their money...."

#809 1 year ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

How do you figure this, Vid? 3500 were produced. When we get to bantering about how many particular classic Sterns are still around, you like to say that there way more out there then we are guessing. You are saying 45% of the Fathoms are no longer around. 3500 x .56 = 1960. THat is all that is out there? Less than 2000?

Yes, way less than 2000.

Obviously, no one knows the number exactly, but just look around at the shows and peoples houses.

They made fewer AFM (bally) than Fathom, yet 900 pinsiders own a real AFM, and only 250 own a Fathom.

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