I agree, and once you experience pinball in the home, it's hard to go back to the arcade. When I moved to LA, I thought I'd largely convert to public play (since there are many barcades). Was just the opposite...made me realize how much better home play is (where you control all the variables...like sound, light, etc.). Considering how cheaply the new games are made, the play degrades quickly when they are in a well traveled barcade.

snaroff

Here's what it looks like "lit up". Consider the poor lighting in most barcades, a bummer that the pin has 0 spots. Fortunately, there are aftermarket solutions

snaroff

IMG_0962 (resized).jpeg

I'm glad your local bar had adequate lighting to enjoy the game, but I don't "buy" your rationale. It's a modernized retro pin. Modernized implies many things, which *should* include lighting the PF properly. IMDN is modern and it is woefully lacking spots as well (the middle of the PF can hardly be seen in a dark room). All of my visitors so far think the lighting improvement is uniformly "goodness". This isn't purely about aesthetics, it effects gameplay. If you can't see the shots it's harder to make them

snaroff

I'm curious...do you like playing classic 80's pin's in general?

snaroff

ok, thanks for the response. Well, my restored Fathom & Centaur are easily in the Beatles Gold price range (but I get your point.

snaroff

In general, you are correct. With Beatles, the pricing is a little more mysterious...especially for the Platinum/Diamond Editions.

If you go to Sterns website, the Gold/Platinum/Diamond all say "CONTACT FOR PRICING AND AVAILABILITY".

snaroff

Couldn't agree more! EVERYTHING is relative. It's how you live your life that matters. I respect folks that appreciate what they have and live within their means.

Look at Warren Buffett, one of the richest guys on the planet who lives a low-key lifestyle. Love this Buffett quote: "Of the billionaires I have known, money just brings out the basic traits in them. If they were jerks before they had money, they are simply jerks with a billion dollars."

snaroff

Based on your top 3 earners, I would guess it's a younger demographic at this arcade. Beatles is obviously targeted at an older demographic (1964?).

Beatles is a beautiful game and a great change of pace. I'm not a fan of GOTG (#2 earner on your list), so I'm not surprised others aren't smitten with Beatles. No game has universal appeal or is universally good (with the possible exception of TRONLE

No matter how many times you and others complain about price, Stern doesn't care. I guess it's a form of Pinside therapy to whine incessantly about price?

snaroff

"So theme and rareness have not translated to earnings here...especially when you factor in the premium price paid for the game."-LesManley

I think Les Manley's data is interesting, but isn't proof of anything...just data on a single location. In today's market, Stern pinball prices have very little to do with earning potential. If Stern's market were largely operators, it might be a different story, however the home pinball market is substantial.

I'm sure Stern is focused on one metric...how many games are unclaimed in Stern's warehouse. My guess is that number is close to 0. A new Stern distributor just popped up down the road. The more distributors, the more folks warehousing Stern's games and lowering their risk.

snaroff

I get it. My point is data without context doesn't mean much. That's all. If an operator decides to pay a "premium price" for a game with certain earnings potential, then the operator needs to understand their demographic. That's my only point. I can guarantee you that if 100 folks my age (late 50's) fire up a location game, GOTG isn't going to "win" over Beatles! Make sense?

snaroff

Yep. fwiw, I'm a collector/player and I'm happy with my game. If all my games were as complex/deep/brutal as my SWLE, it would be hard to love pinball. Diversity is goodness.

Could Beatles be "better" if it weren't a modified Seawitch? I guess so, but I've never owned a Seawitch, so it doesn't really effect me from that perspective.

Would it be great if it were less expensive (somewhere between a "pro" and "premium" for the "gold")? Absolutely, but I have no control over this (other than trying to get the best price available to me from distributors/friends).

How much a game earns on location is a complex topic that I don't believe has much to do with the title of this thread. If I were an operator, my decision to purchase a Beatles would be based on my location and demographic. If it's an older demographic, I might take the plunge. Younger demographic, no way.

snaroff

If so (and sales are so dismal as folks suggest), why would a Stern distributor have a Gold Edition listed for 10k on Amazon?

https://www.amazon.com/Stern-Beatles-Pinball-Gold-Edition/dp/B07L6N83JN/ref=sr_1_2

Sure, some folks are uniformed. True in general. So what?

The distributor listing it for 10k wants to move a game...period. If the game has no shot at selling for 10k, the price wouldn't be 10k.

I haven't talked with distributors about Beatles sales, so you have more data than I do! If distributors get "burned" on Stern pricing often, then I don't know why Stern distributorships are growing (not shrinking). Maybe they just figure "you win some, you lose some?".

Just to be clear, I'm not "defending" my purchase. I have no plans to sell the game, and even if I did decide to sell and take a hit, "you win some, you lose some". Overall, pinball has been a pretty darn inexpensive hobby. I don't keep tight accounting on my buys/sells, but my gut says I'm ahead by a few bucks. Even if I'm breaking even, it's still amazingly affordable if you stick to games/licenses people love.

snaroff

Hmm...all the other recent Stern titles are priced "normally" for the Internet. Beatles seems to be the standout...

Saturation is definitely a problem. In Florida, it's more of a PITA to sell than in California (more people, more money).

It's arguably not "outrageously over priced".

Here is a photo of IMDN Premium $7,599 (MSRP), Beatles Gold $7,999 (MSRP), and Munsters Pro $5,999 (MSRP) "under the hood".

These photos show Beatles is outfitted much like a Premium, *not* a Pro. Beatles is priced $400 more than IMDN Premium and you get gorgeous power-coated legs/armor/apron, side-art blades, "Vox" speaker trim, sweet emblem on the apron (much nicer than the cheap-o emblem on the backbox). Oh yeah, you also get lots of Beatles footage/assets from the time period...

IMG_1311 (resized).jpeg

Exactly. "Coil count" is one measure of what's in the Bill-Of-Materials (the guide by which Stern bases it's Pro/Premium pricing). Gameplay is highly subjective and has little impact on how Stern prices it' games. For example, it they were charging "by the rule", Munsters would be priced much less than IMDN.

The Munsters rule set is "meh" (to be polite). I'm sure it will improve, but the game as it stands isn't nearly as fun as either Beatles or IMDN. In terms of a multi-player game, Beatles is more desirable. I had 3 heavy hitters over for some pinball recently and 1 game of IMDN took ~1 hour. The Beatles 4 player games were closer to 15 minutes (as a result, we played 2-3 games IIRC). Despite Munsters being the new kid on the block, rules didn't inspire any of us. Munsters shoots great/smooth, but the game is very basic...great for an arcade, not-so-great for home use (unless you absolutely love the license and artwork).

Ignore Munsters if the comparison irks you...focus on IMDN Premium. Beatles Gold has the BOM of a Premium...

What "Premium Features" are you referring to? (other than "ramps")

That's the bottom line! ("how fun it is").

All new pinball machines are expensive! If Seawitch sells for ~6k (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-seawitch-6), it's hard to deny the street price for Beatles Gold isn't fair! It's new, faster, brighter, beautiful, lcd, timeless license, modern audio, etc.

The "fun factor" is personal & subjective, but if you like the game, it's "worth it". That's why many games are no longer in my collection. I either didn't find them fun or got bored. OTOH, I have 2 TRON's since I'm bi-coastal (a game I initially didn't like that much). I play it more than most games in my collection. Painful to pay over 10k for my TRON LE recently, however I love playing it.

I realize Beatles isn't for everyone, but if you like/respect the Beatles music and love pinball, it will start winning people over. I'm convinced the team gave it the love it deserved.

Based on your collection, I'm not surprised you don't like Beatles gameplay. Have you ever played Fathom, Centaur, or Paragon? Doubt it.

Anyone that appreciates classic 80's "drop target" games will appreciate Beatles (just like they appreciate games like Fathom/Centaur/Paragon).

Wow...40 year of pinball ownership! I'm only at it 15 years

Nothing to be sorry for! I just like trying to understand why. Everyone that has played mine really seemed to like it (and several weren't Beatles fans). These are folks that are tough pinball critics...not folks afraid of hurting my feelings

They really aren't "so damn expensive" relative to other modern Stern titles. This was recently listed for $6,300.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-the-beatles-gold-edition-22

Comparing it a Pro is silly, sorry.

The game is outfitted like a Premium (not interested in digging into the details, which I've done in other threads).

Agreed. I've had mine since it was released in 2018...bought it NIB for $7,500. When I purchased it, I justified the price based on the costly license and limited/fixed number of games being produced. The license is timeless and I believe this game will grow in popularity.

I'd love to see Stern do more 80's reworks/rethemes...80's games are a bitch to maintain and having a modernized, much improved Seawitch inspired design is awesome. Very fast, tough game. Short ball times which makes it a great multi-player game.

Good luck finding one...highly recommended!

Here is an old post that backs up my assertion:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-beatles-kapow-stern-pinball-official-speculation-thread/page/72#post-4853021

If you think my photos or thinking is flawed, I'd love to hear why you think it's outfitted like a Pro.

I own one and could care less about the BOM, however this idea that it's outfitted like a Pro is a superficial knee-jerk reaction to the no ramps design.

Yep. I love many of the modern Stern games, however 80's drop target rich games still rock.

My other anecdotal proof that Beatles is well worth 6-7k is CQ 80's games sell for 6-7k (and obviously don't have the fancy LCD screen with tons of licensed content and callouts). For example, https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-fathom-19.

Not really. Top rated games like Flash Gordon and Paragon were produced in very large numbers (~10,000 each)! Centaur/Fathom in the 3-4k units. 1,614 Beatles Gold will be produced.

What's rare (with 80's games) is finding beautiful examples that play perfectly and don't have maintenance problems. For example, I have an original HUO Paragon...that is pretty rare!

Price pumping? Sorry to disappoint you, but pinball isn't a money making proposition for me. The conversation is about Pro vs. Premium, and the only reason I'm voicing my opinion is because Beatles Gold is much nicer than Stern Pro's.

Your assertion about rarity was off target. Fact is, top-rated 80's games in great condition sell for top dollar.

Obviously.