Ahhhh....which one is Paul

Even though they are golden, 8K is a ridiculous price! Shame on that company!

Looks like from the top. George, John, Paul and Ringo.

Thought I would post a Beatles update with some local factual information.

A new pinball / gaming bar that opened up a couple of months ago has a Beatles gold on route with 8 other pins...

The Addams Family (Bally, 1992)
Aerosmith (Pro) (Stern, 2017)
Beatles (Stern, 2018)
Deadpool (Pro) (Stern, 2018)
Ghostbusters (Pro) (Stern, 2016)
Guardians of the Galaxy (Pro) (Stern, 2017)
Iron Maiden: Legacy of the Beast (Pro) (Stern, 2018)
Kiss (Stern, 2015)
Star Wars (Pro) (Stern, 2017)

They also have current and classic arcade games. The classics like Paperboy, Super Punch-Out, etc are all running on CRTs and original boards. Plus you can play Xbox One and PS4 there as well. I'm helping out with maintenance on the games at this location. They use a scan card system, so you can get a bunch of fun metrics when you run audits on the games through that system. All pins are priced the same and for this location, Beatles has been the worst earning pin since joining the rotation, only second to Addams Family which has had a lot of down time due to issues. Normally new pins see a spike in earning out of the gate for at least a month or two. You would think this would be especially true with a limited game that you can't just find everywhere and a theme like the Beatles, but that has not been the case at this location. In the Twin Cities here, we had 2 Beatles Gold pins on route during this time period, compared to 11 Iron Maidens and 9 Deadpools for example. So theme and rareness have not translated to earnings here...especially when you factor in the premium price paid for the game.

In case you are wondering, here are the best earning games in this location in order from best on down...

Deadpool
Guardians of the Galaxy
Star Wars
Kiss
Ghostbusters
Iron Maiden
Aerosmith
Beatles
Addams Family

Based on your top 3 earners, I would guess it's a younger demographic at this arcade. Beatles is obviously targeted at an older demographic (1964?).

Beatles is a beautiful game and a great change of pace. I'm not a fan of GOTG (#2 earner on your list), so I'm not surprised others aren't smitten with Beatles. No game has universal appeal or is universally good (with the possible exception of TRONLE

No matter how many times you and others complain about price, Stern doesn't care. I guess it's a form of Pinside therapy to whine incessantly about price?

snaroff

I don’t think LesManley has complained about the price (at least not in this thread).

Always pictured the Beatles hair to be more ... ivy verde

85E6A7CD-D335-4EB0-8B75-97AC42B11A42 (resized).jpeg

"So theme and rareness have not translated to earnings here...especially when you factor in the premium price paid for the game."-LesManley

I think Les Manley's data is interesting, but isn't proof of anything...just data on a single location. In today's market, Stern pinball prices have very little to do with earning potential. If Stern's market were largely operators, it might be a different story, however the home pinball market is substantial.

I'm sure Stern is focused on one metric...how many games are unclaimed in Stern's warehouse. My guess is that number is close to 0. A new Stern distributor just popped up down the road. The more distributors, the more folks warehousing Stern's games and lowering their risk.

snaroff

I didn't. I just said in my post above that the Beatles theme has not translated to increased (or even normal) Stern pin earnings at this location. Obviously that is not good for the operator who paid a premium price to bring the game in.

I wasn't trying to say that it was proof of anything or that Beatles is a terrible game. There was just a lot of guessing, opinions and pure speculation in this thread, so I thought I would add the only bit of facts on Beatles that I could to the conversation. It's a small piece of the big picture, that's all. People can obviously do with that information what they will.

It’s an interesting data point considering three other operators with multiple of these games have reported the complete opposite in terms of games played audits and earnings compared to other recent offerings available at same location.
Was Beatles at this location priced higher per play than the others say 2.00 vs 1.00?

No, they are all priced the same. I was surprised myself. We have a local Facebook group with close to 1000 members and it was blasted out on there that the game was available to play at the location. I know there were lots of people that were eager to play it, myself included, and with only two places to play it at the time I thought for sure it would be near the top in earnings at least to begin with.

I get it. My point is data without context doesn't mean much. That's all. If an operator decides to pay a "premium price" for a game with certain earnings potential, then the operator needs to understand their demographic. That's my only point. I can guarantee you that if 100 folks my age (late 50's) fire up a location game, GOTG isn't going to "win" over Beatles! Make sense?

snaroff

Sure, it makes sense, but I would argue that straight up guessing and/or personal opinions on the Beatles game and sales mean much less...and that's what the vast majority of this thread is to this point.

These numbers make sense. I have seen similar "real" numbers on the top 3 earners above. If you have to make a business decision on what to put on location you set your biases against a company or game aside and put SW, DP and GOTG Pros out based on theme, gameplay for anyone and value.

I do hear The Beatles is a blast to play from a friend who has one. He has a lot of top titles also.

Yep. fwiw, I'm a collector/player and I'm happy with my game. If all my games were as complex/deep/brutal as my SWLE, it would be hard to love pinball. Diversity is goodness.

Could Beatles be "better" if it weren't a modified Seawitch? I guess so, but I've never owned a Seawitch, so it doesn't really effect me from that perspective.

Would it be great if it were less expensive (somewhere between a "pro" and "premium" for the "gold")? Absolutely, but I have no control over this (other than trying to get the best price available to me from distributors/friends).

How much a game earns on location is a complex topic that I don't believe has much to do with the title of this thread. If I were an operator, my decision to purchase a Beatles would be based on my location and demographic. If it's an older demographic, I might take the plunge. Younger demographic, no way.

snaroff

I know nothing about the economics of routing machines. I have heard of some operators getting rich and others just getting by. Anybody who takes the financial risk to make a business with pinball machines has my admiration.

What I find interesting is that you/yours bought 2 of The Beatles pins. That seems like a lot of risk on a new pin.

Can we know why the decision was made to buy 2 instead of buying just one to try it out first? And then, if it worked, buy a 2nd unit.

Thanks.

This operator didn't buy two, he bought one. Another operator bought one right away as well, that's where the two on location locally here came from. These two locations were among the first in the country to have them, so they were in from day one. I know the guy who operates the other one, he has a pinball focused location, maybe I'll ask him how it is doing there for comparison sake and see if he is seeing similar earnings.

Would be interesting to know his readings for same period. Don’t expect he’ll care to provide #plays.

You still whining like a baby? Stick a fork in it dude, everyone has their own opinions on this.

It will be interesting to see how Beatles does on location after being out in the wild for 6-12 months. I’d assume most titles take somewhat of a dip compared to the initial roll out, would be nice to see some data on this.

Spot on, I totally agree.

The real test will be how the Beatles does against WOF in a senior center.

As a band, the Beatles haven't gone stale in 50+ years. Don't know if that translates to a pin or not.

Yellow submarine based on the psychedelic cartoon would translate 1 billion times better!

A reasonable price on Gold Editions would translate to more sales.

If so (and sales are so dismal as folks suggest), why would a Stern distributor have a Gold Edition listed for 10k on Amazon?

https://www.amazon.com/Stern-Beatles-Pinball-Gold-Edition/dp/B07L6N83JN/ref=sr_1_2

n

You love your game and that's fine. You ponied up the money. That's good too. I'm sure its a fun player.

But the sales for Gold editions have been very lackluster. Interest has been very slow after the initial sales. A good deal of that has to do with the price.

Only the uniformed would buy at 10K from an Amazon site.

At the normal 8K list retail these are just sitting in regular dealers stock. Street price for the Golds is actually about $7600 give or take delivered. Way over what the majority of the market will pay. The initial sales were spotty and now it's down to a real slow burn.

It's not so much about theme, content or execution of the game, it's dollars. The game is not selling well.

Personally I would have a hard time paying normal Pro money for one. I'd maybe consider it at that price level, but even then there are many other choices I would probably give more consideration to.

Would I like to play one - You bet. Would I buy one - No.

What do you think a 'reasonable' price is for the Gold editions?

Since the Gold is exactly the same playfield as the other editions, and 350 people around the world have purchased the other editions at astronomical prices, what price should people be paying for the Platinum and Diamond?

Distributors can sell the Golds for any price they want. What price do you think would clear them of all their holdings of the Gold edition?

I hope they have a Wheel Of Fortune pin when I make it to the Senior center. Played one awhile back and enjoyed the game.

Distros can not go below Stern minimums on the Golds. They can sell the Diamonds and Platinums for what ever they like. If they buy a ten pack and sell their Diamond and Platinum typically they have been sitting with most of the Golds.

I think sales of the Golds would do much better as close to typical Pro pricing as Stern could get. But that is not where the price is at. That is the issue.

Sure, some folks are uniformed. True in general. So what?

The distributor listing it for 10k wants to move a game...period. If the game has no shot at selling for 10k, the price wouldn't be 10k.

Sales are poor, plain and simple. Anybody can put even more inflated prices and put it online. That doesn't mean it will sell for that.

Enjoy your game snaroff. I am not dissing anybody that bought the game at whatever price.

The thread topic is how bad are Beatles sales. My opinion is they are not doing very well. I base my opinion on two private conversations I have had with two very reputable distributors. The games are not moving. Sales have been subpar.

I haven't talked with distributors about Beatles sales, so you have more data than I do! If distributors get "burned" on Stern pricing often, then I don't know why Stern distributorships are growing (not shrinking). Maybe they just figure "you win some, you lose some?".

Just to be clear, I'm not "defending" my purchase. I have no plans to sell the game, and even if I did decide to sell and take a hit, "you win some, you lose some". Overall, pinball has been a pretty darn inexpensive hobby. I don't keep tight accounting on my buys/sells, but my gut says I'm ahead by a few bucks. Even if I'm breaking even, it's still amazingly affordable if you stick to games/licenses people love.

snaroff

Because nobody lists anything on Amazon, eBay or anywhere else on the web for prices that are unreasonable. And the items always sell.

Hmm...all the other recent Stern titles are priced "normally" for the Internet. Beatles seems to be the standout...

https://www.amazon.com/Stern-Pinball-Star-Arcade-Machine/dp/B078CB85HS/ref=sr_1_16

https://www.amazon.com/Stern-Pinball-Ghostbusters-Arcade-Machine/dp/B01HYHQW1C/ref=sr_1_cc_1

...and coincidentally enough they are being sold buy the same seller of the Beatles Gold pin, Kinney Billiards and Games.

In reality, it's probably more along the lines of one dealer saw that no one had listed a Beatles pinball on Amazon, so he put one up for a crazy price to see if he could get a sucker to bite. The general public has a mentality that Amazon is the cheapest price out there, so he's hoping someone doesn't do his homework and buys. It costs him nothing to give it a try.

Oh I get it, and I agree with some of what you said and some of what others have said.

The reality is there’s always someone trying to rake in more money on a game that should be priced lower. But that’s all over the place right now. Pinflation is in full swing at the moment.

I just saw a Secret Service listed for 1800 bucks. I’ve owned three of them, and never paid more than 1000 for one. People can certainly list games for whatever price they want. If somebody is willing to pay it, than so be it.

All I was saying is why would you possibly pay 10K for one when you can buy one for 8k from any other distributor right now? It’s not as if they are sold out globally and this guy is holding on to the last gold edition. So you throwing it out there as if it’s some standard or indication of anything, is just false.

I'd buy a gold at current pro prices but nothing more.
If any dealer wants to dump one and have it disappear across the boarder pm me

I have to agree with snaroff on this one.

For example, let's say someone has a gameroom and buys 6 NIB pins of the hottest titles. A year later, he sells 3 of them because he wants to replace them with some newer hot titles.

Let's assume he loses $1,000 on each game that he sells. Where else can you have a hobby that is this much fun, have all the newest titles and it costs you $3,000 per year?? Even if the loss on each pin is a few hundred more, you get my point?

If you buy HUO machines and you buy them right, your loss will be considerably lower.

Roger

Very true, but this is changing with saturation. The high pricing on nib means bigger and bigger losses. The used market is where the stable collecting is still decent. That will go soon enough as well.

Saturation is definitely a problem. In Florida, it's more of a PITA to sell than in California (more people, more money).

I was quoted $7,400 Cash by a distro. I flip games fast. Still thinking about it but still would probably take a big hit.

I’ve shipped a few games to Florida. I hear it’s not an easy hobby down there....closer to a nightmare when it comes to collecting.

The only thing I can ultimately say about this thread, even after my post a few pages ago about putting some plays on a Beatlewitch recently, is I would probably consider one if it were priced like other Sterns. I like the Beatles, but I’m not a diehard fan.

As I said back then, for what this game offers on the PF and by rule set, just not a game I would pay $8k for. Consider that you could have a Beatlewitch...or a nice SM and a second hand IMDN for around the same price. I’d opt for the latter.

Thanks for sharing! Very interesting indeed and don’t be concerned about those that suggest otherwise.

Just made a video on the Beatles Gold and compared with a Seawitch!

I finally had a chance to play Beatles last night, this game is super not for me and just didn't click at all. Though I can see what people might see in it, especially if they're Beatles fans.

Guys I’m gonna offer up a shocking opinion that will blow your minds and reboot your entire perception of what Pinball criticism means:

Beatles is fun.

But........wait for it.....

Wait for it.....

It’s not $8k worth if fun!!!

booooooooom!

Consider your very existence redefined.